Tanquinho's thoughts on reffing @ the 2014 Worlds

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Digitsu, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Digitsu

    Digitsu Blue Belt

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    As many of you may know, Augusto "Tanquinho" Mendes besides being a world champ, he is also a world class ref. He just posted the following on his Facebook page:

    "The BJJ Worlds is over and among with great fights I saw one thing that made me worried: it was the referees mistakes! I could see over the days a lot mistakes that made athletes lose their dreams, they trained a lot, dieted a lot, get to their limits to have a bad referee take his dream out. I used to referee too and I know that some referees did a great job, but for me looked like you would need good luck to get one of the good referees in your match. Any way, I saw a lot athletes having problems in their matches, independent of the teams that they represented. The referees have been doing great in past years, they got a lot better in all aspects, but for me the last 2 big IBJJF events (Pan and Worlds) they were definitely worst. I saw referees trying to have more attention than the athletes, I saw the IBJJF judge in different way the same situation (Not taking back the result when the referee said that he made a mistake and than taking the results back in other fights) when the mistake was exactly the same, the referee interpretation! If you didn't have any problems with the IBJJF referees on the worlds I can say that you got lucky! I really hope the IBJJF does something to fix it! Share and leave your comments here!"​

    Beside the Keenan horror story of a call, what have you seen/experienced?

    My suggestion is that, given the technology the IBJJF currently have, they should allow challenges like the NFL in the BB matches. If the refs call is over turned then they should start back in the position prior to the challenge. If ref's the call is valid, the opponent of the person that called for the challenge should be awarded 6 points.

    While this may drag on the match, the review time should be limited to 1 per match and 1 min max for the review.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    sounds like a horrible idea.
     
  3. Digitsu

    Digitsu Blue Belt

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    Admitting this will slow down the match, do you the 6 point differential will deter the random use of a "challenge"?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  4. FlexLuthor

    FlexLuthor Blue Belt

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    Disagree 1000000000%.

    It takes less than a minute to back up a video and determine wether the reff screwed up or not.
     
  5. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    hard to say but the amount of calls u would able to challenge could be absurd. Refs make mistakes quite a bit, there could be several challenges in one match alone. Tournaments are long as it is.

    Im sure every coach would feel late in any match if their guy is losing they should use a challenge. I mean what do you got to lose at that point anyways if you are down by alot with 1min-30 secs left??

    it would be abused. That being said, i watch tournament streams/videos and rarely do you get a really clear shot of the action for the whole time. What happens when a challenge comes up but the camera angle was no good to see what happened?? What happens if you challenge and are right, do you get another challenge?? Can you concievably challenge infinitely in one match if its a really bad ref??

    What happens in terms of the positioning before the challenge?? Do they also use the video tape to see exactly how they were positioned before because i doubt a ref can really remember exactly if he is going to a TV for 2min to check a challenge.


    i just honestly think its a horrible idea. The refs simply need to get better. It starts with paying and training them better then holding them to a standard.

    Human error is part of every sport on all sides. Players, coaches, refs etc. Im not a fan of the replays in baseball either. Another sport that takes ages to play so they find new ways to slow it down even more.

    cool, im sure others will agree with you, i dont see it. watch any other sport with replays, its usually more than a min. Sometimes its a tough call, does the ref do it alone?? does another tournament official come to see as well?? Who would that be?? There would need to be enough of them because there will be challenges almost every match i would suppose.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  6. Digitsu

    Digitsu Blue Belt

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    100% agree with you on the better pay, training and accountability.

    Maybe the challenges should be reserved for a call that could result in a tipping point of the match and the coach is limited to 1 challenge. You have a valid point about the the camera angles... it may presents some difficulties. As for restart after the challenge it should be easy enough to rewind the footage after the decision is made.
     
  7. TangoMF

    TangoMF Blue Belt

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    Good for Tanquinho for speaking out about the situation.

    The idea presented in the OP doesn't work on a couple levels. Like berimBOWLoh said, there could and should be a reversal of a call if there is disagreement between the three refs, in addition to more comprehensive referee training and post-tournament review where refs are held accountable to explain controversial calls.
     
  8. German Supplex

    German Supplex Orange Belt

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    Tanquinho vs Toquinho superfight for rights to the name. I always get those two mixed up.

    It's probably a good idea that Toquinho isn't a ref though.
     
  9. strangejosh

    strangejosh We Do Not Sow

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    Maybe if it's a DQ it can at least be challenged? That would be something I would like to see. At least at the Brown and BB level.
     
  10. JoelThomas

    JoelThomas Green Belt

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    Or, you know, IBJJF could just fix their rule set.
     
  11. Digitsu

    Digitsu Blue Belt

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    +1 or less complexes rules
     
  12. Jinzumkei

    Jinzumkei Rock El Columbian

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    The reffing was bad this year but I also dont want to see reply. This event ran super late as it was already.
     
  13. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    heck even reffs that went through extensive professional programs and are getting paid in the six figures make mistakes. Look at the professional sports teams. It's gonna happen.
     
  14. kenetics

    kenetics Red Belt

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    I agree I was there. My teammate Nez had the ref stop his fight because he made a noise while he was escaping a kimura. Nez was up 6 points and was on his 5th opponent before he lost to this call. He was upset! I believe he would of won purple belt light weight if ref did not stop it. Tanquinho and I were pissed lol.
     
  15. Digitsu

    Digitsu Blue Belt

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    Yeah I'm not sure how it works, but is it that you take the course once a year and then you can ref various tournaments or is there like a # number of hours you must log before you can ref @ the Worlds/Pans. If latter is the case should here be a scoring system in place so that only the best ref can participate in these high stake events?
     
  16. JCASHDAKID

    JCASHDAKID Green Belt

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    That sucks did he still place? I was scared they were going call a verbal submission on Bernardo for his grunts but Black belts more high stakes let more of it go
     
  17. fallislaw

    fallislaw Got Grips?

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    Debatable.
    One of my buddies was DQ'd by the same ref that DQ'd Keenan.

    My friend was leading 5-0 and stood up with X-Guard. He was holding the opponent's leg on top of his shoulder in a single leg type of position. His opponent jumped for a flying triangle and my buddy was DQ'd for "slamming" the opponent... I'm sure it was no coincidence that the guy's coaches were going nuts AS SOON AS he jumped for triangle... like they drilled that position to get a DQ.

    Afterwards other referees reviewed the video and said it was a mistake. Call was not overturned...
     
  18. deadlizard

    deadlizard cold blooded

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    all these suggestions cost money and investment. Something IBJJF does not want to allocate the resource for.

    It's all about the $$$.
     
  19. Monoman

    Monoman White Belt

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    Have two refs ... probably should be three but that will increase costs. Another option is to implement double eliminations but that will require more time.

    I don't think it would be unreasonable to do either or both for the black belts.
     
  20. deadlizard

    deadlizard cold blooded

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    Cost too much.
     

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