Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by davejitsu, Apr 18, 2008.
on the Military Channel, anyone else watch this?
There's some good MACP vid at:
There are a shit ton of good young guys coming up through MACP that are going to go pro and already we have a good number of excellent fighters.
MMA style combatives training is now required throughout the Army. And as Matt Larson's been known to say, "There's 500,000 guys in my fight school." Most major installations have BJJ and other combatives tournaments. This is without doubt the Golden Age of military hand to hand combat training in the U.S. The new Marine Corps and Air Force programs are decent also.
I just got out of the Marine Corps. Their MA program sucks.
I was trying to be polite.
The Air Force is copying the Army program and lately the Marine's seem to be adapting their program to be more like the Army program also.
I spent 7 months assigned to Marine units during mobilizations and trained with some gung ho guys but the program is pretty limited. I've heard the guys that developed the current program ran into a lot of political problems getting it adopted.
In the Army we have been fortunate to have full support up the chain of command.
I watched it. I thought it was pretty cool. I liked how there were a ton of fights. The did a quick background on each fighter and showed some quick clips on how they advanced through the tournament and then got on with the fight without too much drama. I like no-nonsense.
And I thought the fights were a lot better than Iron Ring.
Actually, the Marine Corps problems aren't all with the program itself. A lot of my beef with it had to do with the fact that you had to get your unit to let you leave work to actually go train. Ain't happening.
MCMAP is alright for what it is. They arent trying to groom you into becoming an elite MMA fighter. They're giving you the baisics to give you an edge over the enemy if it comes down to hand to hand combat.
With MCMAP it is also going to matter what belt you were able to reach. Hell if I remember right, you really dont get into ground fighting until you're a green belt.
Yeah, the Army starts with BJJ and the USMC sort of ends up with it. That allows (us) the Army to have guys doing full power force-on-force drills much earlier in the training cycle. That's a good thing.
You can argue that sport BJJ has some seriously limitations for military combatives use but from a training perspective it is perfect. And the Army requires participation in combatives training. You for damn sure don't have to get special permission or something.
It still is better than the USMC's program when I was in during the early 90's. All we did was sand boxing, some basic foot sweeps from hand-to-hand combat, and bayonet training.
Back to the topic. Yes, watched it, a Relson Gracie student came in third we called him Chico but they used his real name they claimed he was from Tripler Army Medical Center where he worked but he used to train with us when he was stationed here. He wore a white belt one day and I never seen him before so I thought he was new. He asked me to roll and usually with new white belts I let them do whatever they want since I am higher rank.
Next thing I know he was pulling inverted arm bar attempts and straight arm bars attempts from the guard one of which actually caught me for the tap. I asked him, if he was a white belt and if he trained and he said he was a blue and just forgot his belt and borrowed the academy's white belt.
I said okay and then gave him no chance or mercy and tapped him over and over after that since we were the same belt. He laughed and said he should have not said he was a blue belt. We became friends and he joined up that day I think. I also took him to my muay thai master and then trained muay thai right after jj class since he wanted to learn some stand up.
He was a cool guy and it was good to see his progress on t.v.
Most Marines might be out to talk a bunch of shit or whatever, but I'm really not a fan of the MA program. There's a lot of problems to it, ie "not being able to get out of work for it."
A program that not everyone gets to go to is not a program. Its still better than the LINE training in the 80's/90's that taught specific attack sequences.
Now if you have Brian Stann as your CO the Marine MMA program may be a little different.
I thought it was cool till the guy said that judo chops and throwing people down doesn't work anymore.....
I only watched one episode so far and the fights I saw were pretty good (most of them at least).
I can't say anything about the MACP, but at least it's better than what we had when I served; which was no program at all.
I'm not a Judoka, but it still annoyed me. They should make that guy spar against Russian soldiers to see if that throwin' works or not.
it was an entertaining show, i was confused by when they showed the fighters past fights they were wearing the fatigues, but on the TOP show it was like no gi
Gonna have to agree with you and JASOND, think of it, you think some guy in full body armor and web gear is going to jump guard?
At best he will trip or even throw the other enemy. I dont think Spetsnaz orthe Red Army are going to work from their back even if they take it to the ground.
Yeah, guys saying that are basically uneducated. If you want a guy on the ground you need to know how to put him there. Double legs are difficult if not impossible to do with 60 pounds of "lightweight" combat gear hanging off your ass. Osoto-Gari or Tai-Otoshi are a much better combat solution. Currently we are really only teaching a takedown from the clinch.
The real reason we don't train Judo style throws much in MACP is that it adds a big training requirement to teach Ukemi and you have to have proper facilities (mats). You can train BJJ and striking with a lot less prep time and equipment and that is a huge advantage at the unit level where this shit needs to happen.
Truth be told, we were probably about par with the Russians after WWII when they really developed Sombo. The difference is they developed service wide competition and we basically blew it off and only taught H2H in basic and forgot everything we had learned.
The new system is vastly better, primarily becuase it does include competition and unit level training. But that guys statements are an insult to the WWII combatives guys that paid in sweat and blood to learn and develop skills that work in real fighting only to have the Army basically piss it all away.
I watched a couple of the episodes and thought it was very well put together and that the guys in there were pretty darn good. I said somethin' to my buddy about it (he just got out of Air Force boot and is in tech school now, and he told me a little bit about their combatives program there, that they train MT and BJJ and have competitions with other bases in other branches pretty regularly.
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