International Syria Discussions, v2: Turkey and Syria Trade Deadly Strikes, As Russia Watches Uneasily.

Arkain2K

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This thread is dedicated to the latest events happening on the ground in Syria, while v1 will remains the focus group for random grievances about Trump.

If you are a partisan drone who could not contribute anything other than derailing threads with your usual partisan bs, please refrain from participating in our discussion.



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Pence, Pompeo secure Syria cease-fire agreement with Turkey
By Ronn Blitzer | Oct 17, 2019



The deal is for a 120-hour cease-fire, during which time the Kurdish-led forces could pull back from the roughly 20-mile-wide safe zone on the Turkish-Syrian border.

All Turkish military operations under the recent offensive known as Operation Peace Spring will pause during that time, and the operation itself will come to an end entirely upon the completion of the Kurdish withdrawal, under the terms of the deal.

The commander of Kurdish-led forces in Syria later told Kurdish TV they will abide by the deal, which Pence said was reached after more than five hours of negotiations with Erdogan and Turkish officials.

 
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We shall see how Syria and Russia will react, since this would-be safe zone is still on Syria's sovereign land after all. They could say hell no and the fighting will resume, or perhaps they would join hand in administering and secure the Safe Zone (a job that the West do not want and was previously a sticking point in the safe zone plannings with the Kurdish leadership, who is okay with its creation but doesn't want the Turkish military running it, out of their rightful concern that Turkey would use it as a beachhead to push further into Kurdish territories in the future).

Naturally, the Syrian Kurds immediately jumped on this deal now, considering that the geopolitical climate has evolved with the introduction of the Syrian government and Russia troops into the mix. Kurdish forces can pull back from the fighting along the borders now as Turkey agreed to put an end to their "Operation Peace Spring" beyond the Safe Zone, while the Syrian and Russian military are left holding the bag with Turkish border patrols amd peace-keeping duty, a long-term volunteer job that the West doesn't want since it require boots on the ground.

This is when Europe will publicly pretending that they are against Turkey releasing the 3.6 Million Syrian refugees to the Syrian safe zone, while privately thanking the stars that Erdogan's hand isn't forced to go through with his threat to release them into Europe instead.

At the same time, Trump-tweets analysts and politicians who were previously shedding crocodile tears for the Kurds will be very annoyed and disappointed that Turkey agreed in this deal to cancel their previous plan of continue marching deep into Syrian Kurdish territory to look for "terrorists" (a.k.a YPG/PKK) well beyond the safe zone, so it looks like there wouldn't be any "mass ethnic cleansing" and wide-scale "bloodshed" on Kurdish civilians all over Rojava, as previously demonstrated in Kentucky.

If everything works out (and there's no guarantee it would yet until we can see Syria's response), then nearly every player can claims benefit from the latest development:

- Turkey is happy they have the safe zone they wanted and no longer have 3.6 million Syrian refugees to take care of indefinitely. Most importantly, there will be a buffer between the Syrian Kurds and Turkish Kurds, something that Ankara has always frown upon no matter who's their President, for a large contiguous cross-border Kurdish population naturally nourish the idea of Kurdish Independence from inside Turkey that must be extinguished.

- Europe is (privately) happy they wouln't be flooded with yet another gigantic wave of Syrian refugees through Turkey. The virtue-signalling while no one actually do anything can continue. Also, Turkey no longer have the human leverage to blackmail Europe into paying for the safe zone either.

- Russia is happy that they are the new peace-keeping force in the area after the U.S withdraws from Syria, as previous announced a year ago. Syria is a rare win for Moscow in geopolitics, and since they are actually here legally on behalf of the Syrian government, they will certainly have a long-term role in any future dealings.

- The U.S is happy they're no longer stuck in Syria after they finished fighting ISIS, and risk getting sucked back into the decade-old Syrian civil war, long after the world has already given up on removing Assad from power, not to mention the extremely awkward possibility of an unprecedented NATO vs. NATO confrontation. The Americans/Kurds/Turks made a deal to create a Safe Zone on Syrian land, yet the U.S managed to conveniently pass this hot potato onto the Russians, whose presence is now expected to keep NATO-rogue Turkey in check and keeping the peace in this volatile region, since it directly involves their bff Syria.

- The West is happy that they could continue to assists the Kurds in other ways while not risking their troops' lives doing patrol duties on the front lines (such as the resettlement of the civilians from the frontier back into Rojava proper, investing in their petro economy, etc). Previous funding and weapons that they have been sending to the Syrian rebels could be diverted to the Kurds instead to shore up their long-term autonomy and development.

- The Syrian Kurds are happy that they finally have a possibility of long-term security. They previously agreed last month to use this chunk of Syrian land previously under their control next to the Turkish border to create the safe zone, because they can see the appeals of having a 20-mile buffer filled with non-Kurd Syrian refugees that would geographically separates between the Kurds and their much-better equipped Turkish nemesis, now with Russian/Syrian troops on patrol as an added bonus.

- The Syrian government is stoked that Assad will continue to be President for life. Their strategy of treating the Kurds better than the Turks will pay dividents, if they choose to continue a peaceful and fruitful symbiotic relationship between Damascus and semi-autonomous Rojava, much like Baghdad and the semi-autonomous Kurdistan regional government. If they play their cards right, it wouldn't be long until Syria is admitted back into the Arabs League once more, and soon the world will completely ignore the previous "red lines" Obama drew for Assad that had already been long washed away.

The only pawns that lost big time in all of this are the Syrian rebels (previously backed and funded by the West) currently fighting alongside Turkish forces who are still desperately trying to topple Assad. They will be casted aside, but that too was long predicted, when everyone's attention turned to ISIS and the Syrian civil war was promptly forgotten.

The mainstream media will ofcourse pretends that the sky is falling and Turkey is somehow the sole "winner" in all of this, and I have no doubts there will be plenty of warhawks joining in the chorus against this ceasefire, much to our amusement since they are the same people who previously pretended to care about the Kurds' century-old plight.
 
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I assume in the 5 days the SAA can move to
More border areas?

this is great news. Syrian gets its oil fields back. Kurds come back to their nation, and the are protected and disarmed.

the Turks don’t need a buffer then. No Kurdish threat. The refugees get to come home!

turkey wins, Syria wins, Kurds kinda win, kinda lose.


The isreal first military industrial complex and foreign policy establishment must be PISSED.
same with our media. No massacre of Kurds.

Trump actually is smart or stumbled into great success.
 
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Syrian Kurdish-led force says it will abide by cease-fire
By LEFTERIS PITARAKIS and BASSEM MROUE

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The commander of Kurdish-led forces in Syria on Thursday said they will abide by a cease-fire agreement announced in Turkey by U.S. Vice President Mike Pence. But his comments suggested a smaller “safe zone” than Ankara has demanded, underscoring the ambiguities in the American-Turkish deal.

Mazloum Abdi, speaking on Kurdish Ronahi TV, said the extent of the cease-fire stretches about 100 kilometers (60 miles) along the middle of the border — between the towns of Tal Abyad and Ras al-Ayn. That is the region where Turkey has largely made its gains in nine days of fighting.

“We hope that this cease fire will be successful, and we will do our best to make it successful,” Abdi said Thursday, describing it as a “tentative agreement.” Abdi is also known by his nom de guerre, Mazloum Kobani.

Abdi also did not specify that his fighters would withdraw from any territory. Kurdish fighters have already been driven out of much — but not all — of the area he defined. But they are still entrenched in Ras al-Ayn, fiercely battling Turkish-backed Syrian fighters trying to take the town. Whether the Kurdish fighters pull out of Ras al-Ayn will likely be an early test of the accord.

Turkey demands that all Kurdish fighters pull out of a zone stretching the entire length of the border from the Euphrates River to Iraq, more than 400 kilometers (250 miles). That covers most of the region were Syria’s Kurdish population is concentrated.

The Kurdish-led forces still hold the rest of that territory and have invited the Syrian government’s military, backed by Russia, to deploy there to protect them from Turkey. Syrian troops have already rolled into several key points along the border.

A key question for the ceasefire going forward is whether Ankara will be satisfied that the Syrian government presence is enough to keep a lid on the Kurdish-led forces.

Turkey launched its invasion nine days ago, after President Donald Trump pulled out American soldiers in northeast Syria who had been working alongside the Kurds. Abandoned by their U.S. allies — with whom they had fought to bring down the Islamic State group — the Kurds turned to Russia and Damascus for help.

The cease-fire announced by U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, sent by Trump to Ankara, appeared to be a significant embrace of Turkey’s position in the weeklong conflict. It calls for a five-day cease-fire in the Turks’ attacks on Kurdish fighters in northern Syria to allow the Kurds to withdraw to roughly 20 miles away from the Turkish border.

Abdi, the Kurdish commander, made sure to praise Trump in his comments, saying “the president of the United States was directly involved and online.”

He suggested the Kurdish-led force was involved in working out the cease-fire deal. “It has been three days that we have been working on this,” he said. “We were aware of all details. As result we reached this agreement.”

The deal raises hopes for at least a pause in the chaos that the Turkish assault has wreaked across northeast Syria.

The nine-day offensive has left many civilians dead on both sides. The Kurdish health authority said 218 civilians, including 18 children and five medical personnel, have been killed. At least 20 Turkish civilians and six soldiers were killed. The Observatory said at least 203 fighters from the Kurdish-led forces and 171 from Turkish-backed Syrian factions have been killed.

More than 130,000 people were driven from their homes. Abdi said there were provisions in the ceasefire for the return of the displaced.

After the announcement of the cease-fire, sporadic Turkish shelling still hit the border town of Ras al-Ayn, while a relative calm held elsewhere, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a war monitor. It also said 20 people were wounded by celebratory gunfire in Qamishli, a Kurdish majority city.

Ras al-Ayn has been the scene of the fiercest fighting of past days, with Kurdish fighters there putting up powerful resistance despite Turkish claims to have captured it. Amid heavy bombardment by the Turkish military, Turkish-backed Syrian fighters encircled the town

The Kurdish Red Crescent said its ambulances and field clinics in the town have been targeted by shelling, making it hard for them to reach the wounded and killing at least one medic.

“We need a safe corridor to facilitate the evacuation of the wounded,” the Kurdish Red Crescent posted on its Facebook page.

https://www.apnews.com/c27ec5d2fa3b4954a65bc359f497a22a
 
We shall see how Syria and Russia will react, since this would-be safe zone is still on Syria's sovereign land after all. They could say hell no and the fighting will resume, or perhaps they would join hand in administering and secure the Safe Zone (a job that the West do not want and was previously a sticking point in the safe zone plannings with the Kurdish leadership, who is okay with its creation but doesn't want the Turkish military running it, out of their rightful concern that Turkey would use it as a beachhead to push further into Kurdish territories in the future).

Naturally, the Syrian Kurds immediately jumped on this deal now, considering that the geopolitical climate has evolved with the introduction of the Syrian government and Russia troops into the mix. Kurdish forces can pull back from the fighting along the borders now as Turkey agreed to put an end to their "Operation Peace Spring" beyond the Safe Zone, while the Syrian and Russian military are left holding the bag with Turkish border patrols amd peace-keeping duty, a long-term volunteer job that the West doesn't want since it require boots on the ground.

This is when Europe will publicly pretending that they are against Turkey releasing the 3.6 Million Syrian refugees to the Syrian safe zone, while privately thanking the stars that Erdogan's hand isn't forced to go through with his threat to release them into Europe instead.

At the same time, Trump-tweets analysts and politicians who were previously shedding crocodile tears for the Kurds will be very annoyed and disappointed that Turkey agreed in this deal to cancel their previous plan of continue marching deep into Syrian Kurdish territory to look for "terrorists" (a.k.a YPG/PKK) well beyond the safe zone, so it looks like there wouldn't be any "mass ethnic cleansing" and wide-scale "bloodshed" on Kurdish civilians all over Rojava, as previously demonstrated in Kentucky.

If everything works out (and there's no guarantee it would yet until we can see Syria's response), then nearly every player can claims benefit from the latest development:

- Turkey is happy they have the safe zone they wanted and no longer have 3.6 million Syrian refugees to take care of indefinitely. Most importantly, there will be a buffer between the Syrian Kurds and Turkish Kurds, something that Ankara has always frown upon no matter who's their President, for a large contiguous cross-border Kurdish population naturally nourish the idea of Kurdish Independence from inside Turkey that must be extinguished.

- Europe is (privately) happy they wouln't be flooded with yet another gigantic wave of Syrian refugees through Turkey. The virtue-signalling while no one actually do anything can continue. Also, Turkey no longer have the human leverage to blackmail Europe into paying for the safe zone either.

- Russia is happy that they are the new peace-keeping force in the area after the U.S withdraws from Syria, as previous announced a year ago. Syria is a rare win for Moscow in geopolitics, and since they are actually here legally on behalf of the Syrian government, they will certainly have a long-term role in any future dealings.

- The U.S is happy they're no longer stuck in Syria after they finished fighting ISIS, and risk getting sucked back into the decade-old Syrian civil war, long after the world has already given up on removing Assad from power, not to mention the extremely awkward possibility of an unprecedented NATO vs. NATO confrontation. The Americans/Kurds/Turks made a deal to create a Safe Zone on Syrian land, yet the U.S managed to conveniently pass this hot potato onto the Russians, whose presence is now expected to keep NATO-rogue Turkey in check and keeping the peace in this volatile region, since it directly involves their bff Syria.

- The West is happy that they could continue to assists the Kurds in other ways while not risking their troops' lives doing patrol duties on the front lines (such as the resettlement of the civilians from the frontier back into Rojava proper, investing in their petro economy, etc). Previous funding and weapons that they have been sending to the Syrian rebels could be diverted to the Kurds instead to shore up their long-term autonomy and development.

- The Syrian Kurds are happy that they finally have a possibility of long-term security. They previously agreed last month to use this chunk of Syrian land previously under their control next to the Turkish border to create the safe zone, because they can see the appeals of having a 20-mile buffer filled with non-Kurd Syrian refugees that would geographically separates between the Kurds and their much-better equipped Turkish nemesis, now with Russian/Syrian troops on patrol as an added bonus.

- The Syrian government is stoked that Assad will continue to be President for life. Their strategy of treating the Kurds better than the Turks will pay dividents, if they choose to continue a peaceful and fruitful symbiotic relationship between Damascus and semi-autonomous Rojava, much like Baghdad and the semi-autonomous Kurdistan regional government. If they play their cards right, it wouldn't be long until Syria is admitted back into the Arabs League once more, and soon the world will completely ignore the previous "red lines" Obama drew for Assad that had already been long washed away.

The only pawns that lost big time in all of this are the Syrian rebels (previously backed and funded by the West) currently fighting alongside Turkish forces who are still desperately trying to topple Assad. They will be casted aside, but that too was long predicted, when everyone's attention turned to ISIS and the Syrian civil war was promptly forgotten.

The mainstream media will ofcourse pretends that the sky is falling and Turkey is somehow the sole "winner" in all of this, and I have no doubts there will be plenty of warhawks joining in the chorus against this ceasefire, much to our amusement since they are the same people who previously pretended to care about the Kurds' century-old plight.

I'm assuming what you wrote here represents a VERY optimistic outcome, no? I'd be curious to see a critique, no offense. Hell, even if only half of what you posted comes to fruition this seems great!
 
I'm assuming what you wrote here represents a VERY optimistic outcome, no? I'd be curious to see a critique, no offense. Hell, even if only half of what you posted comes to fruition this seems great!

I said in the very first paragraph that whether this could work out or quickly goes to shit is depends on the reaction from the Russians and Syrians. They are the de-facto peace-keepers of this region now, and if they refuse to recognize this deal, then everything else is moot.

Actually, Erdogan doesn't gives a shit about what the Syrians think either, but he's not anxious to engage the Russian forces separating his troops and the Syrian troops at the border, after burning his bridges with the West.

I am optimistic that the ceasefire will holds if Russia agree to take the job though, because everyone have something to gain from it.

It wouldn't take that much effort to find critiques of this deal from the usual pundits. Just open your favorite mainstream news site like and you'll find the sky to be falling again, or it might be falling even faster now with this ceasefire.

The biggest problem that I find with Turkey's plan for the Safe Zone is actually the logistic of it all. They estimated that the costs to relocate the Syrian refugees back to Syria and make it viable for them to live there will be around $26.4 Billion, and I seriously, seriously doubt they will be able to get that much in donation from the international community with the stunt they just pulled.

From a week ago, when hardly anyone cared about this region at all:


Will Turkey succeed in creating a 'safe zone' for Syrians?
Development projects planned for safe return of Syrian refugees, but critics raise questions about feasibility.
by Sinem Koseoglu | 8 Oct 2019​

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Istanbul, Turkey - Turkey says its forces are ready for military action to establish a "safe zone" in northern Syria, even as critics have raised doubts about the plan.

Ankara has long maintained the goal of the long-threatened push is to drive the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) - an armed group Turkey considers a "terrorist organisation" - away from the border area and create the conditions needed for the return of Syrian refugees.

Turkish officials say the establishment of this "peace corridor" stretching some 30km (19 miles) into neighbouring Syria's northeastern region is "essential" for regional peace and the safety and stability of Syrians.

Turkey considers the safe zone a space where about two million of the more than 3.6 million refugees currently hosted on its soil can be returned to.

Officials say at least 350,000 Syrians have voluntarily returned to areas in northern Syria following Turkey's two previous operations - 2016's Operation Euphrates Shield in northern Aleppo province and last year's Operation Olive Branch in Afrin.

But the accommodation of the refugees has increasingly become a burden that is too heavy for Turkey to bear as it tries to recover from an economic slump and a currency crisis.

At the same time, rising unemployment, a major defeat in Istanbul's mayoral election and an apparent need by the ruling party to preserve nationalists' votes seem to have forced the government to seek alternatives.

Development project

Under a plan presented late last month by the Turkish presidency, 140 villages and 10 districts would be set up in the safe zone with a goal of accommodating at least one million Syrians.

The project includes the establishment of universities, schools, youth centres, hospitals, sports halls and 200,000 housing units.

The settlements would require 92.6 million square metres (996 million square feet) of land. Another 140 million square metres (1.5 billion square feet) would be needed for agricultural production.

The presidency says the project is expected to cost $26.4bn, seen as far beyond Turkey's financial means.

"With the help of international society, we're hoping to set the necessary terms for the return of Syrians," Fahrettin Altun, the Turkish presidency's communications director, told Al Jazeera.

He said the project might take a year to complete, depending on international cooperation, and predicted an immediate start of voluntary refugee returns if everything went as planned.

'Humanitarian catastrophe risk'

While the government says it is taking the lead in building an international coalition to fund the project, some have cast doubts about the plan's feasibility.

In an article in the opposition paper Sozcu, economist Ege Cansen called for clarity over the financial policies of the safe zone. He also raised questions about the makeup of the planned local administration, pointing to possible disagreements by current residents in relation to public works and the building of settlements.

On Monday, meanwhile, the United Nations warned against the further displacement of civilians in the event of a Turkish military operation in northeast Syria and expressed concern over the safe zone plan.

Ediz Ekinci, a former Afghanistan adviser to the UN, said humanitarian issues were a priority for the Turkish armed forces.

"If there is the risk of a humanitarian catastrophe, that operational plan is either cancelled or updated by the military. Our forces have always won general approval by our NATO allies."

While Turkey believes the military operation for a safe zone is essential for stability, voices within the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) that controls the northeastern region from east of the Euphrates River to the Iraq border have argued that by sending millions of Syrians back to this area Turkey seeks to change local demographics.

Altun refuted these claims, saying those who fled those areas to Turkey were now afraid to return and accused the YPG of ethnic cleansing in the area.

"You can't mention it as a 'demographic change' when locals want to return after you seized the administration of a place by force and displaced local people," he said.

Ankara views the YPG armed group as an extension of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is deemed a "terrorist organisation" by Ankara, the United States and the European Union.

In a 2014 report, Human Rights Watch documented a range of human rights abuses in areas controlled by the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD), the political wing of the YPG, including arbitrary arrests, disappearances and killings, jurisdictional violations, arrests of political opponents, abuse of prisoners and the use of child soldiers.

In an October 2015 report, Amnesty International also documented civilians living in parts of northern Syria were subjected to serious abuses by the PYD, including forced displacement and home demolitions.

It said the instances of forced displacement and demolition and confiscation of civilian property constitute "war crimes".

In another report last year, Amnesty said residents in Afrin were enduring a wide range of violations, mostly at the hands of Syrian armed groups that have been equipped and armed by Turkey. The rights group accused Ankara of turning a blind eye to it.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...eating-safe-zone-syrians-191008114825095.html
 
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Syrian Kurdish-led force says it will abide by cease-fire
By LEFTERIS PITARAKIS and BASSEM MROUE

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https://www.apnews.com/c27ec5d2fa3b4954a65bc359f497a22a

So the Turks lost six guys and the Kurds and other Syrian rebels ~400? Sounds like an ass-kicking. I'm also not sure how people are saying this is good for the Kurds since it seems like the agreement calls for them to pull their forces out of the area where the bulk of the Syrian Kurdish population is concentrated.
 
I'm also not sure how people are saying this is good for the Kurds since it seems like the agreement calls for them to pull their forces out of the area where the bulk of the Syrian Kurdish population is concentrated.

That's actually not a new development. A lot of people probably didn't know this, but the Kurdish leaders already agreed to withdraw their forces a month ago from the area.

The only major thing that was left to haggle about the Safe Zone is who will run the place. The Turks want their troops to do it, the Kurds want it to be either a military-free zone or administered by American and European troops (because they sure as hell don't trust the Turks), but the problem is neither the U.S nor Europe wants to send in the tens of thousands of troops needed to patrol this 20-mile deep, 300-mile long region. Most of our Western allies actually outright refuses to put any boots on the ground at all, despite repeated pleading from both the U.S and the Kurds for an international peace-keeping force.

And so as the Kurds moved out, the Americans also moved out, the Turks moved in guns-blazing instead of moving out, which leads to the Kurds moving back in to fight them, which leads to the Syrians and Russians making a deal with the Kurds and moving in as well to fill the vacuum along the Syrian-Turkish border that the West left behind.

I actually like the Kurds, so it's fine with me if the Russians (or anyone else) agree to take this hot potato and willing to be the official peace-keeper of the Safe Zone andkeep everyone's least favorite NATO member in check, since no one else wanted to do it. It would be a good geopolitical win for Moscow, so the chance of them taking over border security duty for us is pretty good right now.

PS: This is from last month, when the U.S/Turks/Kurds plannings for the safe zone was still on track:


Kurdish Official: Syria's 'Safe Zone' Off to Good Start
By Associated Press | September 4, 2019

Syria-safety-zone_0.png

DARBASIYAH, SYRIA - The creation of a so-called "safe zone" in northeastern Syria has gotten off to good start, with U.S.-backed Kurdish-led forces pulling back from a small, initial area along the Turkish border, a Syrian Kurdish official said — but calm can only prevail if Turkey also removes its troops.

Ilham Ahmed, co-chair of the executive committee of the U.S-backed Syrian Democratic Council, said the understanding reached between Washington and Ankara last month, and in coordination with the Syrian Kurdish-led forces, constitutes a step toward starting a dialogue over mutual security concerns.

"We seek to find a way to dialogue, and starting to implement this plan expresses our readiness and seriousness," Ahmed said in an interview Tuesday with The Associated Press.

"We want to tell the world and the coalition that we are ready to take serious steps to get to dialogue," she added.

Turkey views the U.S-backed Kurdish People's Protection Units, or YPG, in Syria as an extension of a Kurdish insurgency within Turkey.

Ankara has already carried out military offensives inside Syria to push the group away from the western end of the border. Over the last weeks, Turkish officials threatened a similar offensive in northeastern Syria, where troops from the U.S.-led coalition are deployed to help the Syrian Kurdish-led forces in combatting remnants of the Islamic State group.

The Syrian Kurds have been America's only partners on the ground in Syria's chaotic civil war. With U.S. backing, they proved to be the most effective fighting force against the Islamic State group and announced its territorial defeat earlier this year. The Kurds now worry about being abandoned by the U.S. amid Turkish threats to invade Syria, and are keen to work out an agreement with both parties that would safeguard their gains.

Ankara and Washington announced last month that they would begin measures to implement a border ``safe zone'' to address Turkish security concerns. The Kurdish-led forces are expected to pull out of the zone, but details must still be worked out _ including who then would patrol and administer it.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan over the weekend repeated threats of an offensive if Turkey's demands on the zone are not satisfied, including that its soldiers control the area.

Ahmed said more U.S. troops will probably be needed to implement the zone, though the Americans have not said whether they will deploy any.

"In the coming days, and because of the needs of the formation and implementation of the security mechanism, they may need more forces. It is not yet clear what the U.S. administration would decide," she said.

There was no immediate comment from the U.S.-led coalition.

There are around 1,000 U.S. troops in Syria on a mission to combat IS militants. President Donald Trump had said he wants to bring the troops home, but military officials have advocated a phased approach.

Ahmed said initial steps have been positive but for calm to prevail Turkish troops must also retreat from the Syrian borders. She said while Turkey expresses concerns about the Kurdish-led forces, it is Ankara that has been a source of threat to Syria with the various military operations and its military posts in western Syria.

The Kurdish-led forces have begun removing fortifications along the border and have moved some troops away from the border. At least two U.S-Turkish joint reconnaissance flights have flown over the area, and on Tuesday, joint patrols between U.S. troops and Kurdish-led forces also examined the area where fortifications have been removed.

The deal envisions an area five to 14 kilometers deep (three to eight miles) with no YPG presence, as well as removal of heavy weapons from a 20-kilometer-deep zone (12 miles), she said. Turkey wants a deeper zone. The length of the zone has not yet been agreed on, but will likely stretch hundreds of kilometers (miles).

Ahmed said discussions over other details of the security mechanism will open the way for Syrians who had been displaced from those areas, many of them fled to Turkey, to return. Turkey is home to 3.6 million Syrian refugees and Ankara said it wants the safe zone to provide an opportunity for many to return home.

Ahmed said only those originally from eastern Syria would be allowed to return. Kurdish officials worry Turkey wants to bring back large numbers of Syrians to the areas, which were previously controlled by IS militants, changing the demographic balance in the area. Syria's Kurds are predominantly from the country's northeast, living in mixed or Kurdish-dominated villages and towns there. She said no residents will be displaced because of the implementation of the safe zone.

"Calm must bring with it sustainable dialogue. Calm alone is not enough," Ahmed said. "If Turkish troops don't pull away from the borders, it will always be considered a threat."

Another top Kurdish official, Aldar Khalil, said the Kurdish-led administration and forces would not accept Turkish forces or permanent bases in the so-called safe zone or a free hand for Turkish flights over the area.
He said while an understanding has been reached, a final deal would constitute an indirect Turkish recognition of the Kurdish-led administration in northeastern Syria. He said, however, a final deal is not imminent.

https://www.voanews.com/middle-east/kurdish-official-syrias-safe-zone-good-start
 
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Syrian Kurds accuse Turkey of violating Truce
By Patrick Kingsley| Oct. 18, 2019

merlin_162894285_fac7d0b7-3cde-4bc4-aed0-f7bdcbc80fce-jumbo.jpg

ISTANBUL — Shelling and gunfire continued in northern Syria on Friday morning, casting further doubt on the feasibility of a cease-fire announced a day before by Vice President Mike Pence between Turkish and Kurdish forces and raising questions about whether the Americans can even enforce it.

The Kurdish leadership in northern Syria accused the Turkish military and its proxies of violating the terms of the truce. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan denied that any fighting was continuing.

But shelling raged on in the Syrian border town of Ras al-Ain, and gunfire could be heard by journalists just across the border in Turkey. The continuation of the deadly conflict provided further evidence of the United States’ diminished influence, showing that the American military, having evacuated its troops from northern Syria, had no practical ability to enforce the cease-fire.

The truce deal had already amounted to a near victory for Mr. Erdogan, who appears to have outmaneuvered President Trump, since it gave the assent of the United States to a Turkish sphere of influence in northern Syria.

A spokesman for the Kurdish forces, Mustafa Bali, said on Twitter that Turkey continued to pound civilian areas and a hospital, despite the announcement on Thursday night by Mr. Pence that there would be a five-day pause in the fighting to allow Kurdish fighters to move away from the Turkish border.

Responding to the claims that Turkey had violated the truce, Mr. Erdogan told a reporter after leaving Friday Prayers at a mosque in Istanbul: “I do not know where you get your information from. Conflict is out of the question.”

In a speech later on Friday, Mr. Erdogan said Turkish forces had stopped fighting and would begin again only if Kurdish troops had not retreated by Tuesday night from Kurdish-run areas in northern Syria that have been occupied by Turkish forces in the past week.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/world/middleeast/syria-ceasefire-kurds-turkey.html
 
Make no mistake. The MIC does not want the Russians or Syrians or Iranians in control of this area.

They still have the pipe dream that regime change is possible
 
Russia, Syria, Iran, Turkey.

Is there anyone outside of Europe you fuckers do not want war with
 
We need to bomb Turkey if they're using chemical weapons

...and then turn the plane around and drop a few JDAMs on our own airbase in defense of our official NATO ally against an attack from us.

Sounds like one for the history book!
 
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