Switching stances in MMA

[JayElectra]

That is really interesting example. I have seen this highlight before, but haven't paid attention to stance switch.

Looks like Pep mostly does this to create counter punching opportunities... Not leading himself, just countering ...

Essentially, yes. Part of it is due to not ever getting yourself squared up, as well. I've actually seen Floyd try and parody this at small points (very limited small points which I will try and fully identify at later dates if you'll excuse me at this point; this actually makes me believe even more that Floyd is a secretive film junkie). I'd ask someone like Sinister or another properly schooled poster to really trace a certain school or impetus for such a style, but it is very interesting.

As I said before, though, MM certainly tries to employ such switch stance tendencies in order to open up counters. I feel like Dominick Cruz has watched a few of these videos, as well (or been schooled in similar tendencies).

 

[jlagman]

I think one of the dangers of switching is the possibility that you pick up the bad habit of becoming a one-handed fighter because you become lazy, predominantly throw jabs with your dominant, forward hand and neglect other aspects of your training.

I'm very much against the idea of switching stances for the most part; I view it as a gimmick typically used by the inexperienced, though it can be used to great effect by those willing to commit the time and effort to learn both sides well. If someone were to switch stances, then it should be purposeful beyond the "I'm going to confuse my opponent" bullshit, because even moderately experienced fighters won't bite. I recognize the validity in how a momentary switch can lend itself well to certain transitions, combinations, steps and angles; in very specific scenarios, however, I feel it should be fluid and almost unnoticeable.

There's a lot of work involved in utilizing an unfamiliar stance, defense is greatly compromised, you present entirely new openings for your opponent, footwork is backwards and power may not even be there.

 

[a guy]

I think one of the dangers of switching is the possibility that you pick up the bad habit of becoming a one-handed fighter because you become lazy, predominantly throw jabs with your dominant, forward hand and neglect other aspects of your training.

I'm very much against the idea of switching stances for the most part; I view it as a gimmick typically used by the inexperienced, though it can be used to great effect by those willing to commit the time and effort to learn both sides well. If someone were to switch stances, then it should be purposeful beyond the "I'm going to confuse my opponent" bullshit, because even moderately experienced fighters won't bite. I recognize the validity in how a momentary switch can lend itself well to certain transitions, combinations, steps and angles; in very specific scenarios, however, I feel it should be fluid and almost unnoticeable.

There's a lot of work involved in utilizing an unfamiliar stance, defense is greatly compromised, you present entirely new openings for your opponent, footwork is backwards and power may not even be there.

I agree with you and the bolded part is what I'm doing. I'm not talking about switching stances just to give the opponent a new look, I'm talking about switching stances while defending or attacking because the footwork and combinations that become available are really unique and useful.

 

[a guy]

Pep used it on the backfoot a lot so as to set traps.



One fighter you see try and emulate this type of style in MMA is Demtrious Johnson.

That's a fantastic video, thanks.

And yea, Johnson was one of the guys who got me interested in the topic in the first place. Gustafsson's finish of Hamill is what really opened my eyes, though.

 

[Ughugh]

I've never been a fan of switching stances. I've been taught that it's better to get great at fighting either orthodox or southpaw than it is to get decent at fighting out of both stances. However, I've been noticing that a lot of MMA fighters who are lauded for their footwork switch stances very often in a variety of situations. Guys like Silva, Gustafsson, Machida, Pettis, Mighty Mouse, Swanson, Cruz, Overeem, Edgar and more.

Do any of you like to switch stances? If so, when do you do it and for what purpose?

Personally, I've been trying to work on switching stances during exchanges. I still don't like the idea of just switching to mix things up when nothing is going on, but I think it's very useful for covering distance both offensively and defensively as well as for moving to different angles. Anyone else do or try to do anything like that?

My attention span faded to nothing when I saw karate vids posted on page 1 so maybe this has been covered. However I agree... I'm not a fan of switching stances the way most guys in MMA does it either; ie switch stance and then entry from that stance (as opposed to using it functionally to get an angle or keep the flow of the combination). Machida in particular grinds my gears because with some proper boxing training his footwork and striking could be stellar. I'm also not a fan of switching the same way in boxing to establish a strong power jab because you're telegraphing your intentions and all it takes is one slip and a counter and now you're defending from a static position you're not used to. If you want a more powerful jab that way you should instead convert and stick with it (like Marvin Hagler for example). But that's not what I came here to write. I wanted to address the actual training that goes into moving dynamically from one stance to the next...

Now foa, I've not been to any MMA gyms because it was after my time but the muay thai and karate gyms I shortly attended lacked some 101 stuff that boxers are drilled in to create good fundamentals and I'm assuming the same applies to a lot of moderns MMA gyms even, purely based on what I observe from the majority of MMA guys on the highest level. And to be perfectly fair not all boxing coaches know the basics either.

Anyways, the most important of which, and what you're scratching your head over, is drilling the check hook. The check hook drill in boxing is like the pummeling drill in wrestling; everything else in terms of pivoting and dynamically switching stances builds off of it so it's not just a dumb boxer habit that will "never work in a MMA fight". If you know how to execute a right check hook from orthodox then you know how to dynamically switch stances with any right strike in a combination. If you know the left check hook then you know how to switch back and generate power from southpaw. As a bonus you create a habit of timing, special angles and lateral movement. You don't drill check hooks to actually land a check hook - if you do then good for you but that's not it's primary purpose. I wouldn't know what to do with myself if someone stood me in southpaw and told me to box, but I must have drilled like a million check hooks so if I'm in a fight odds are I'll be switching stances a few times without even realizing I'm doing it or that I'm momentarily fighting in southpaw. I'm "just" moving the way I was taught in the check hook drills...



Do this left/right, forward/backward a few thousand times and switching to straight punches or kicks will be easy. And if your coach doesn't feed you check hooks on the mitts then ask him to do it properly...

If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds a lot like this knockout :

I've been working on something that uses the same concept as this knockout. I don't like to start from southpaw, but what I've been doing is starting in orthodox and stepping my lead leg back while pivoting on my right foot to stand somewhere between square and southpaw when someone tries to come forward quickly towards me. I then hop to the right with a right hook and throw either a left uppercut or left head kick depending on the range.

This is actually a picture perfect example of the work of countless and countless hours of check hook drills applied in MMA via boxing.

 

[a guy]

My attention span faded to nothing when I saw karate vids posted on page 1 so maybe this has been covered. However I agree... I'm not a fan of switching stances the way most guys in MMA does it either; ie switch stance and then entry from that stance (as opposed to using it functionally to get an angle or keep the flow of the combination). Machida in particular grinds my gears because with some proper boxing training his footwork and striking could be stellar. I'm also not a fan of switching the same way in boxing to establish a strong power jab because you're telegraphing your intentions and all it takes is one slip and a counter and now you're defending from a static position you're not used to. If you want a more powerful jab that way you should instead convert and stick with it (like Marvin Hagler for example). But that's not what I came here to write. I wanted to address the actual training that goes into moving dynamically from one stance to the next...

Now foa, I've not been to any MMA gyms because it was after my time but the muay thai and karate gyms I shortly attended lacked some 101 stuff that boxers are drilled in to create good fundamentals and I'm assuming the same applies to a lot of moderns MMA gyms even, purely based on what I observe from the majority of MMA guys on the highest level. And to be perfectly fair not all boxing coaches know the basics either.

Anyways, the most important of which, and what you're scratching your head over, is drilling the check hook. The check hook drill in boxing is like the pummeling drill in wrestling; everything else in terms of pivoting and dynamically switching stances builds off of it so it's not just a dumb boxer habit that will "never work in a MMA fight". If you know how to execute a right check hook from orthodox then you know how to dynamically switch stances with any right strike in a combination. If you know the left check hook then you know how to switch back and generate power from southpaw. As a bonus you create a habit of timing, special angles and lateral movement. You don't drill check hooks to actually land a check hook - if you do then good for you but that's not it's primary purpose. I wouldn't know what to do with myself if someone stood me in southpaw and told me to box, but I must have drilled like a million check hooks so if I'm in a fight odds are I'll be switching stances a few times without even realizing I'm doing it or that I'm momentarily fighting in southpaw. I'm "just" moving the way I was taught in the check hook drills...



Do this left/right, forward/backward a few thousand times and switching to straight punches or kicks will be easy. And if your coach doesn't feed you check hooks on the mitts then ask him to do it properly...



This is actually a picture perfect example of the work of countless and countless hours of check hook drills applied in MMA via boxing.

I don't know why you said I'm scratching my head over drilling check hooks. I believe they're extremely useful and have been working on them extensively. I use them to defend takedowns, steer forward moving opponents into rear hand punches or kicks and I'll use them sometimes as part of my recovery after landing a kick (right low/mid kick, check left hook or left low/mid kick, check right hook). That said, they're only one aspect of stance switching and I'm working on a variety of other techniques and movements as well.

 

[Ughugh]

I don't know why you said I'm scratching my head over drilling check hooks. I believe they're extremely useful and have been working on them extensively. I use them to defend takedowns, steer forward moving opponents into rear hand punches or kicks and I'll use them sometimes as part of my recovery after landing a kick (right low/mid kick, check left hook or left low/mid kick, check right hook). That said, they're only one aspect of stance switching and I'm working on a variety of other techniques and movements as well.

Ok. You referenced a bunch of check hook drill scenarios and seemed puzzled by how they attained that skill. Was just trying to help...

And I beg to differ that they're "just one aspect". The drills are the meat and bones.

 

[a guy]

Ok. You referenced a bunch of check hook drill scenarios and seemed puzzled by how they attained that skill. Was just trying to help...

And I beg to differ that they're "just one aspect". The drills are the meat and bones.

I guess "just one aspect" isn't the best way to put it. I just mean that there are many other ways to switch stances, especially when trying to initiate the exchanges. Check hooks are a core skill for sure but there are others as well.

 

[Discipulus]

Pep used it on the backfoot a lot so as to set traps.



One fighter you see try and emulate this type of style in MMA is Demtrious Johnson.

Good call with the Mighty Mouse comparison. I actually made the same comparison in a breakdown I've got coming out tomorrow. Demetrious and Pep are both very good at getting their opponents to follow them in order to suddenly switch directions walk them into shots.

 

[Tankeray]

If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds a lot like this knockout :

I've been working on something that uses the same concept as this knockout. I don't like to start from southpaw, but what I've been doing is starting in orthodox and stepping my lead leg back while pivoting on my right foot to stand somewhere between square and southpaw when someone tries to come forward quickly towards me. I then hop to the right with a right hook and throw either a left uppercut or left head kick depending on the range.

Jesus

 

[SAAMAG]

That was in the second round of her fight. The time preceding was pretty uneventful. Holly Hope is her name. She was undefeated for a good while till she finally got KO'd boxing. Trains out of Jackson's camp.

 

[Vil7]

If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds a lot like this knockout :

I've been working on something that uses the same concept as this knockout. I don't like to start from southpaw, but what I've been doing is starting in orthodox and stepping my lead leg back while pivoting on my right foot to stand somewhere between square and southpaw when someone tries to come forward quickly towards me. I then hop to the right with a right hook and throw either a left uppercut or left head kick depending on the range.

That is a beautiful ko but not exactly what I was talking about. Pat Barry is showing something similar to what I was suggesting except he uses a hook to set it up. I prefer using a basic stiff jab personally.

 

[a guy]

Ok gotcha. I've seen that kind of combination before and it's very dangerous. I like how Barry describes his shots as "scary" or like a ghost.

 

[DivineComedy]

DJ vs Moraga last night. DJ switched stances a whole bunch, he didn't do it effectively the first round at all.

 

[Discipulus]

That is a beautiful ko but not exactly what I was talking about. Pat Barry is showing something similar to what I was suggesting except he uses a hook to set it up. I prefer using a basic stiff jab personally.

Like so?

 

[TonyK]

The ability to switch stances fluidly and set up attacks with that is one of the most effective striking abilities that a fighter can have, it really catches people off guard sometimes and opens them up for combos.

I fight in orthodox stance, one of my favorite techniques is switching to southpaw and immediately throwing a jab (with the hand that is usually the rear hand), it opens people up for at least one more strike like 70% of the time. If you are really comfortable with that, you can even try that with an elbow.

 

[a guy]

Like so?

I believe he was referring to throwing a jab from southpaw and then a right head kick. Both attacks coming from the lead side. So instead of standing orthodox and going left hook, left headkick like Barry, it would be the mirror version (southpaw right jab, right head kick).

 

[a guy]

The ability to switch stances fluidly and set up attacks with that is one of the most effective striking abilities that a fighter can have, it really catches people off guard sometimes and opens them up for combos.

I fight in orthodox stance, one of my favorite techniques is switching to southpaw and immediately throwing a jab (with the hand that is usually the rear hand), it opens people up for at least one more strike like 70% of the time. If you are really comfortable with that, you can even try that with an elbow.

That's something I'm trying to work on. One thing that's nice about that switch is you can do it to get the inside or outside foot position much easier than you can do it while trying to maintain one stance.

 

[Discipulus]

I believe he was referring to throwing a jab from southpaw and then a right head kick. Both attacks coming from the lead side. So instead of standing orthodox and going left hook, left headkick like Barry, it would be the mirror version (southpaw right jab, right head kick).

I know, but this is the combination he was talking about, from orthodox. I imagine it works well from southpaw because most orthodox guys, at least the ones who are inclined to move their heads, lean to the right, which would put them right into the path of the kick. In this gif Noons slipped to the inside of the jab, either anticipating a cross or loading up a left hook, but the result was the same. He slipped right into the head kick, which I imagine is the intention of the combination.

Edit: I'm sorry: I'm tired and I only half read your post. Now I see what you're saying. So like this (@ 9:55), but mirrored:

 

[SAAMAG]

That's one thing I could never get into...while I can appreciate good technique...I HATED the way most of the american kickboxing matches looked back then. The only person I really liked stylistically was Benny.

Maybe it was the hair. That for sure didn't help.