Crime Sutherland Springs, Texas Church Shooting v2

[Ruprecht]

V1

http://time.com/5010945/devin-kelley/

The gunman suspected of killing at least 26 people and injuring 20 others when he opened fire at a small town church southeast of San Antonio on Sunday has been identified by law enforcement officials as Devin Kelley.

Kelley died in the aftermath of the shooting at his mother-in-law’s church, the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, a small community in Wilson County.

Among those who were killed was the 14-year-old daughter of the church’s pastor, Frank Pomeroy. The victims ranged in age from 18 months to 77 years, officials said Monday.

Here’s what to know about suspected church shooter Devin Kelley.

Who is Devin Kelley?
Law enforcement officials have identified the suspect as Devin Patrick Kelley, a 26 year-old man living in New Braunfels, Texas — about 35 miles from Sutherland Springs.

The gunman was seen walking into the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs on Sunday after crossing the street from a gas station around 11:20 a.m. Kelly, who was wearing all black tactical gear and a ballistic vest, began firing a Ruger AR assault-type rifle from outside the church upon exiting his vehicle. He then moved to the right side of the church and began shooting before entering the building and continuing to fire.

Officials say that after leaving the church, the gunman was confronted by a local citizen, who grabbed his rifle and chased him from the scene. The suspect drove away, and crashed his vehicle near the county line, where authorities later found his body.

Officials said he might have died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound but are awaiting an autopsy to determine his official cause of death.

Kelley served in the Air Force until he was discharged for allegedly assaulting his wife and child, according to service records obtained by the Associated Press. Kelley served in Logistics Readiness at Holloman Air Force Base in Otero County, New Mexico from 2010 until a 2012 court martial, according to Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek. Kelley was demoted and received a bad conduct discharge following the court-martial, and served a one-year detention sentence, Stefanek said.

What was Devin Kelley’s motive?
“It’s a senseless crime, but we can tell you that there was a domestic situation going on within this family,” Freeman Martin, regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said at a press conference on Monday.

Martin said Kelly’s mother-in-law attended the First Baptist Church, and she had received threatening text messages from him.

“We can’t go into details about that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and thoroughly investigated, but we want to get that out there — that this was not racially motivated, it wasn’t over religious beliefs, there was a domestic situation going on within the family and the in-laws,” Martin said.

Did Devin Kelley have a gun license?
Officials said Monday that Kelley did not have a license to carry a concealed handgun, but did have a “noncommissioned, unarmed private security license similar to a security guard at a concert-type situation,” according to the Associated Press.

Fred Milanowski, special agent in charge of the Houston field division for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said officers recovered a rifle at the church and two handguns in Kelley’s vehicle. All three firearms were purchased by Kelley.

What else do we know about Devin Kelly?
Authorities are investigating any social media posts Kelley made in the days prior to the attack, including one that appeared to feature an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle, AP reports. He does not appear to be linked to organized terrorist groups, according to officials. Authorities said it was unclear whether he was part of any militia groups.

Neighbors reported hearing intense gunfire coming from the direction of the address listed for Kelley in past days.

“It’s really loud. At first I thought someone was blasting,” Ryan Albers, 16, who lives across the road, told AP. “It had to be coming from somewhere pretty close. It was definitely not just a shotgun or someone hunting. It was someone using automatic weapon fire.”

Mod Note:
The usual rules about unfolding tragedies apply. Don't blame the victims, don't troll, don't engage in tasteless humour, don't post false information and don't derail the thread.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Good interview with a witness.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/eyewitness-church-shooting-dont-know-now-193924682.html

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Texas — It didn’t sound out of the ordinary at first. A quick pop, pop, pop that was very clearly gunfire, but Terrie Smith had heard noises like that before plenty of times.

It was the soundtrack of any small town here along the back roads of South Texas, where people are known to shoot rattlesnakes and other critters even in broad daylight — sometimes for safety, but more often for fun — without anyone blinking an eye.

But as Smith walked into Teresa’s Restaurant, her namesake eatery inside the Valero gas station here, just off state Highway 87 a little before 11:30 on Sunday morning, the pops suddenly turned into rapid bursts that didn’t stop. “Someone’s shooting out there,” someone yelled.

Running out to the parking lot, she looked across the street to the First Baptist Church, just a hundred or so yards away, where the congregants were some of her closest friends and customers. Near the front of the building, she saw a figure dressed all in black clutching what looked like a machine gun. With every burst of fire, she saw his body visibly quake, as he sprayed the outside the church with bullets again and again.

FBI agents search for clues on Monday at the entrance to the First Baptist Church, after the mass shooting in Sutherland Springs. (Photo: Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty Images)
On Monday, authorities confirmed the gunman was Devin Kelley, 26, from nearby New Braunfels, Texas, about 40 minutes north of Sutherland Springs. While the investigation is ongoing, police said Kelley may have targeted the church because of a “domestic dispute” with his wife’s family, who attended the church. (They were not in church on Sunday.)

“I couldn’t see his face. I could only see his body shaking and shaking as he shot the gun,” Smith tearfully recalled. “When I close my eyes, I just see him just shooting and shooting and shooting.”

Less than 24 hours later, Smith stood in the same spot in the parking lot of the Valero, recounting to a reporter how time seemed to stand still in that moment, how the gunshots echoed though this tiny town with its single traffic light and how she knew even in that instant that things would probably never be the same ever again.

“Stuff like this doesn’t happen here. It just doesn’t,” she asked, tears running down her face. “We’re a good community. How could this happen here?”

From left, Christopher Rodriguez, Esmeralda Rodriguez, Mona Rodriguez, Jayanthony Hernandez, 12, and Juanita Rodriguez participate in a candlelight vigil for the victims of a fatal shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Sunday, Nov. 5, 2017. (Photo: Laura Skelding/AP)
As Kelley continued to take aim at the church on Sunday morning, something within Smith clicked. She raced towards customers who stood dumbstruck near the gas pumps, staring at the scene of horror across the street, yelling for them to get down. They fell on the ground, crawling toward each other as the shots continued.

During a lull in the gunfire, she and the others crawled toward the store and locked themselves inside. Peeking through the window, she saw the gunman enter the church, where the spray of gunfire continued again and again — though the sound was more muffled and dulled. “There were so many rounds,” she said. “It just went on and on. You could just hear it constantly. And then there was a silence. And then there were more rounds. And then there was silence.”

After a few minutes, she saw a man rush out of the back door of the church, running toward the store. He was covered in blood and badly injured, with wounds on his head and on his arm. As he got closer, she recognized him as the son of a customer and opened the door. “Somebody’s shooting in there! Somebody went in and shot everybody,” the man gasped as he collapsed to the ground.

As she recalled the moment, Smith could began to sob. “He kept saying, ‘My family’s in there. My family’s in there,’” she said through tears. “And we couldn’t do nothing. We couldn’t do nothing.”

He was the only victim she saw emerge from the church alive.

From across the street, she heard gunfire that didn’t sound like the rapid bursts before. She saw the man that police now identify as Kelley running toward his truck, his weapon missing. She heard more shots, this time apparently from a neighbor firing at the gunman. Behind the wheel, Kelley sped into the intersection, where it appeared to Smith that a bullet shattered one of his truck’s windows, and he briefly lost control before heading north on State Road 539. He was pursued by a second truck, driven by Johnnie Langendorff, who had been flagged down by the neighbor. The two took off after Kelley, who, according to the account by law-enforcement officials, crashed in a field 10 miles away, and was found dead by police. He had been shot by the neighbor and had also suffered a self-inflicted gunshot wound, although officials said the sequence was unclear.

Johnnie Langendorff, who pursued the suspect of the Sutherland Springs First Baptist Church church shooting, waits to be picked up from the scene where the suspect died near the intersection of FM 539 and Sandy Elm Road in Guadalupe County on Nov. 5, 2017. (Photo: William Luther/San Antonio Express-News via ZUMA Wire)
Back at the Valero, where the parking lot on Monday morning was filled with media trucks, Smith cried as she wondered about the fate of her community. It was a town where everybody knew everybody and people banded together in times of hardship. But now 26 people were dead, with many others badly injured.

She knew almost everybody who died. Her best friend, Joanna, was killed, along with two of her kids. “Her little son is just hanging on,” she said, crying.

Looking back towards the church, she stared, unable to speak as dozens of men and woman in blue FBI jackets slowly walked down a street collecting evidence. On Sunday mornings, the town was so quiet you could often hear the sound of congregants singing praise songs and church hymns inside. But now all she can hear in her memory is the sound of gunfire, those bursts that seemed unending.

“We’re a good community, we’re a good community,” she said. “When people are struggling, we all come together. I don’t know what we do now.”

 

[nac386]

The debate around this tragedy really centers around mental health and gun laws. Specifically:

1. At what point should a person's deteriorating mental wellness be brought to the attention of the authorities, and how much power should the authorities have in regards to committing a person for in-patient psychiatric treatment against their will?

2. What is causing so many Americans to see mass murder as a viable option as an outlet for their troubles?

3. How can we keep weapons out of the hands of those who wish to do harm to others? How was this man able to purchase an AR15 if he had recently been convicted of spousal and child abuse and sentence to 12 months imprisonment? Was that a mistake or a loophole? If it was a mistake on the gun seller's part, is that seller held responsible? If it's a loophole, how quickly can we close it? Are there further gun control measures that would reduce this type of violence?

As of right now, that seems like the logical debate points. The idea of this being a religion-based attack has been thoroughly denied by the authorities.

 

[Easy The Great]

What a piece of shit to do something like this to innocent people.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

EXCLUSIVE: 'Creepy, crazy and weird': Former classmates say Texas gunman was an 'outcast' who 'preached his atheism' online before killing 26 in the state’s worst ever mass shooting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html


Devin Patrick Kelley (pictured) walked into the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, dressed in full combat gear, and began shooting, according to local law enforcement sources
The Texas church shooter who shot dead 26 people and injured 24 others was an 'outcast' who 'preached his atheism' online.

Former classmates say Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, who stormed First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Texas and opened fire on Sunday, was 'creepy', 'crazy' and 'weird'.

Patrick Boyce, who attended New Braunfels High School with the killer, told DailyMail.com: 'He had a kid or two, fairly normal, but kinda quiet and lately seemed depressed.

'He was the first atheist I met. He went Air Force after high school, got discharged but I don't know why.

'I was just shocked [to hear the news]. Still haven’t quite processed how he could have done that.'

Nina Rose Nava, who went to school with the gunman, wrote on Facebook: 'In (sic) in complete shock! I legit just deleted him off my fb cause I couldn't stand his post.

'He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism'

Christopher Leo Longoria replied: 'I removed him off FB for those same reasons! He was being super nagtive (sic) all the timd (sic).'

 

[Rational Poster]

EXCLUSIVE: 'Creepy, crazy and weird': Former classmates say Texas gunman was an 'outcast' who 'preached his atheism' online before killing 26 in the state’s worst ever mass shooting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html


Devin Patrick Kelley (pictured) walked into the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, dressed in full combat gear, and began shooting, according to local law enforcement sources
The Texas church shooter who shot dead 26 people and injured 24 others was an 'outcast' who 'preached his atheism' online.

Former classmates say Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, who stormed First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Texas and opened fire on Sunday, was 'creepy', 'crazy' and 'weird'.

Patrick Boyce, who attended New Braunfels High School with the killer, told DailyMail.com: 'He had a kid or two, fairly normal, but kinda quiet and lately seemed depressed.

'He was the first atheist I met. He went Air Force after high school, got discharged but I don't know why.

'I was just shocked [to hear the news]. Still haven’t quite processed how he could have done that.'

Nina Rose Nava, who went to school with the gunman, wrote on Facebook: 'In (sic) in complete shock! I legit just deleted him off my fb cause I couldn't stand his post.

'He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism'

Christopher Leo Longoria replied: 'I removed him off FB for those same reasons! He was being super nagtive (sic) all the timd (sic).'

I admire your commitment to pushing bullshit narratives in spite of overwhelming evidence that you're an asshole.

 

[ripskater]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4851812/texas-church-shooting-boy-family-murdered-devin-kelley-26/

Classmate Nina Rosa Nava write on Facebook that the mass murderer used to rant on the social network about his atheist beliefs.

She said: “He was always talking about how people who believe in God were stupid and trying to preach his atheism.”

I don't think it was domestic. He killed dozens of people in a Christian church that he did not know. Including shooting 2 year olds, 6 yr olds etc.

If it's domestic, he goes after his ex woman.

 

[nac386]

Derailed within 7 posts by the same two people.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

Texas church shooter tried to bribe underage girls to date him

Texas church shooter Devin Patrick Kelley was so pathetic, he tried to bribe and threatened ex-girlfriends to take him back — and he stooped so low as to date a 13-year-old when he was 18, according to former flings.

“He was very sick in the head,” Katy Landry, a former girlfriend of Devin Patrick Kelley, told NBC News. “Years after dating me he would try to bribe me to hang out with him. He ended up assaulting me.”

Landry said she met Kelley in church as a teenager, but it was not immediately clear when their relationship began or ended.

Another girl, Brittany Adcock, 22, said Kelley dated her for two months around 2009 when he was 18 and she was just 13.

“At the time I didn’t think much into it being so young but now I realize that there’s something off about someone who is 18 with someone who is 13,” she said.

After she dumped him, Kelley pursued her relentlessly, offering her money to take him back and even disgustingly suggesting she live with him and his wife as a topless maid.

“One time he told me I should move in with him and his wife and that he would take care of me as long as I walked around topless,” Adcock said. “Not long after, his wife messaged me and asked why I’m talking to her husband and I told her what he was saying and sent her screenshots and she then apologized and then I was blocked from speaking to her.”

 

[themainman]

I know this is sad but at least it was in a church where Fox & friends say is the best place to get shot.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

Derailed within 7 posts by the same two people.

All the articles I posted are related to the topic.

But by all means censor whatever you dont want to read.

 

[nac386]

All the articles I posted are related to the topic.

But by all means censor whatever you dont want to read.

You and @ripskater have posted more propaganda than anybody already. You were recently posting propaganda to claim the guy was ANTIFA. You were absolutely convinced, and stating it as fact. What happened to that storyline?

 

[Fawlty]

Nice, starting out V2 with blatant Christian trolling.

The debate around this tragedy really centers around mental health and gun laws. Specifically:

1. At what point should a person's deteriorating mental wellness be brought to the attention of the authorities, and how much power should the authorities have in regards to committing a person for in-patient psychiatric treatment against their will?

2. What is causing so many Americans to see mass murder as a viable option as an outlet for their troubles?

3. How can we keep weapons out of the hands of those who wish to do harm to others? How was this man able to purchase an AR15 if he had recently been convicted of spousal and child abuse and sentence to 12 months imprisonment? Was that a mistake or a loophole? If it was a mistake on the gun seller's part, is that seller held responsible? If it's a loophole, how quickly can we close it? Are there further gun control measures that would reduce this type of violence?

As of right now, that seems like the logical debate points. The idea of this being a religion-based attack has been thoroughly denied by the authorities.

Especially interested in #3. I'm not convinced it was illegal for him to get a gun in Texas, but he's obviously a person you don't want having one considering the domestic violence conviction. It's unlikely the AF hits him with that serious a charge if it wasn't a really bad incident.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

The debate around this tragedy really centers around mental health and gun laws. Specifically:

1. At what point should a person's deteriorating mental wellness be brought to the attention of the authorities, and how much power should the authorities have in regards to committing a person for in-patient psychiatric treatment against their will?

2. What is causing so many Americans to see mass murder as a viable option as an outlet for their troubles?

3. How can we keep weapons out of the hands of those who wish to do harm to others? How was this man able to purchase an AR15 if he had recently been convicted of spousal and child abuse and sentence to 12 months imprisonment? Was that a mistake or a loophole? If it was a mistake on the gun seller's part, is that seller held responsible? If it's a loophole, how quickly can we close it? Are there further gun control measures that would reduce this type of violence?

As of right now, that seems like the logical debate points. The idea of this being a religion-based attack has been thoroughly denied by the authorities.

I liked the way you framed the two big questions.

I'll just add that authorities saying a given crime had nothing to do with religion doesn't carry much weight these days. It is certainly plausible that the alleged killer's reportedly vehement anti-religious attitude was part of the motive.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

You and @ripskater have posted more propaganda than anybody already. You were recently posting propaganda to claim the guy was ANTIFA. You were absolutely convinced, and stating it as fact. What happened to that storyline?

Stay on topic. If you want my response, pm me or post in that thread.

 

[Max Power]

 

[nac386]

I liked the way you framed the two big questions.

I'll just add that authorities saying a given crime had nothing to do with religion doesn't carry much weight these days. It is certainly plausible that the alleged killer's reportedly vehement anti-religious attitude was part of the motive.

It very well could be, and if proposed in a responsible way, that can be part of the discussion.

There is a big difference between introducing a theory and discussing it's merits, and constantly posting propaganda from youtube accounts and Twitter troll accounts.

 

[ripskater]

I liked the way you framed the two big questions.

I'll just add that authorities saying a given crime had nothing to do with religion doesn't carry much weight these days. It is certainly plausible that the alleged killer's reportedly vehement anti-religious attitude was part of the motive.

I agree.

 

[Rational Poster]

I liked the way you framed the two big questions.

I'll just add that authorities saying a given crime had nothing to do with religion doesn't carry much weight these days. It is certainly plausible that the alleged killer's reportedly vehement anti-religious attitude was part of the motive.

Soo...

Unverified facebook posts recalled by indirect sources > actual police work that recovered threatening texts to relatives of one of the victims?

 

[ripskater]

It very well could be, and if proposed in a responsible way, that can be part of the discussion.

There is a big difference between introducing a theory and discussing it's merits, and constantly posting propaganda from youtube accounts and Twitter troll accounts.

What was wrong with my post?