Subs from turtle gaurd or when someone has your back?


Blue Belt
Nov 12, 2005
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I found that when I'm rolling with others in my class, I seem to give up my back. This could be because ive been training a little under three months or whatever. What submissions can you pull off when someone has your back? I'm always trying kimuras but they dont come off as properly as i would like them to.
if yolu are turtled you can get a kneebar if they step behind you with 1 leg, but generally you want to be looking to get out of that position.
i'd say roll into a kneebar but hell you'd be way better off learning how to escape.
good answers...but my professor thinks kneebars n such should not be practiced by noobs just yet.
There aren't realistically any good subs when someone has your back -- you should work on escapes and reversals instead. Btw, the turtle is like 500x better of a position than having someone take your back. If someone takes your back, you are pretty much reamed. By contrast the turtle, if you're good at it, is actually a surprisingly strong position for reversals (because you are on all fours, have good base, and good defense). Only attack I know from that position is the kneebar, and you're better off just learning some sweeps out of it.
There's a kimura from turtle guard I picked up from Eduardo Telles for if the guy gets a bearhug around your waist, pretty much a Sakuraba vs Renzo style kimura but when you turn out you need to trap their leg by overhooking the back of their knee with your leg and getting open guard, passing your leg up their back or pulling half guard so they can't roll forward. There's also an americana if they go for a half nelson to try roll you over that you can get if your put your arm on the side they are attacking on the back of your neck and grab their wrist with your other hand before bending it away from your head.
That sakuraba kimura thing if you can tie up the arm. I use it a lot, probably too much.
Hey superbeast, does Eduardo Telles focus on escapes/reversals from the hands and knees position?

As in, escaping from side-mount and then getting to your knees, your opponent will always be on top of you with their crouch facing your face. The only thing I go for is a double or single leg but that's getting old.
Telles is famous for his sweeps/leglocks from the turtle position.
in mma competition its mostly banned, but wrist locks man, wrist locks.

the first time i rolled with a pro fighter (who was a really great guy btw) i kept getting my ass kicked and he kept telling me to get out of those positions. he had my back, he was choking me from some wierd spots, he was just kickin my ass. then i somehow got a reversal and took his back. in my mind i was like "got you now motherfucker", got the hooks in, reached under his armpit with one hand so he wouldn't throw me off his back and 5 seconds later i was tapping to a wristlock.

they don't see them coming coz they're too focused on sinking in that rnc, its a nasty move. but be careful dont fuck anyone's hands up.
There are a few things, but at three months training your concentrating too much on subs. One problem a lot of beginners have is they try to sub you from what ever position their in. There are submission options from just about any position. Many times this makes their position worse. Until you understand escapes and proper movement in grappling it's not a good idea to attack from what would be considered and inferrior position. Instead spend more time working escapes and proper control.
WORD homie^^^^, I've heard the comments about spazzing and position b4 submission and have listened to them...I just thought it would be nice to see if there was any subs from turtling.
LOL Im'a (relativley) newb so see my question on how to get a sub from some upsidedown reverse armbar position. BTW in the instructional sections of Sherdog store, there's a WHOLE ENTIRE video on the turtle position!!!

The Turtle: Never Get Tapped from the Back Again

Josh Russell went from white belt to black belt in only three years, and he did it at the world famous Gracie Barra. He quickly gained a reputation of his back defense and attacks from the turtle position. Almost no one can successfully finish him from the back. He used those skills to go on to become a multiple time Brazilian Champion.

This DVD covers:

- Defending from the Turtle
- Reversing from the Turtle
- Attacking from the Turtle
- Turtle Drills

"The turtle is a common position in Jiu Jitsu. Sometimes you need to go to your knees to avoid your opponent's side mount. I will give up one advantage point to avoid three points. Sometimes if you are down on all fours you have to open up so your opponent has to move. That is when they make the mistakes that cost them the fight."
Really I'm not talking about spazzing, just that the offensive game comes best when you learn to get the correct positioning for it. Also realize that the turtle position is different than someone actually having hooks in.

Turtle is great, and I'm not saying a beginner shouldn't use techniques from there... but concentrate on sweeps and escapes more. Especially when rolling.
Using a kimura from turtle.Wow that is very strange.Going for an armlock in turtle gotta try that sometime.Most of the time i just do judo hip tosses and throw them into side headlock and then scarf hold them.Im giving you points for that.Giving me a new tech to try in turtle.Thanks a mill