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Studying the Cross-Armed Guard a.k.a. "The Lock"
- Thread starter Discipulus
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Discipulus
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Sure. Sandy Saddler had a style that relied heavily on the use of the hands for both offense and a heavily active defense. This is the style that he taught to George Foreman, and George used it quite well throughout his first run.
Though rolls and slips were still an aspect of this "hand fighting" style, the hands did a lot of the defensive work. Much of this was proactive defense: the opponent's hands would be trapped or blocked before he could punch, or his arms would be controlled by a grip on the bicepses, or pinned to his body with wrestling tactics.
Altogether, this made for a very high pressure style, in which the opponent had his offense stifled, and was thrown off balance by pushes, pulls, and other pseudo dirty tactics. I'll be happy to find some good visual examples when I have access to my computer later.
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oh, okay, at my gym this is muffling, pinning, folding, and trapping. Boxing has so many nuances that all have so many different names, that it is often hard to keep them all in line. I watched Foreman v. ****ey last night, and you can see Foreman muffling shots with his right hand. Half way through his cross guard setup, he would push at the opponents lead hand and muffle the jab, then cover up. The folding happens naturally in the cross arm guard, so it seems, as punches that fly over the lock can be shoved further out of the way during slips which can set up the hooks/uppers.
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Great thread. Any more thoughts on potential applications in kickboxing and MMA?
I would imagine adding back-handed blows and elbows to the mix allows for a lot more offence from this position.
I would imagine adding back-handed blows and elbows to the mix allows for a lot more offence from this position.
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Solids thread about something that I really don't understand very well. I dont have time to watch the vids now but I will make time in the near future.
Based on previous discussion, it seems to me that this style could be used quite effectively with simple bobbing to defend against body attacks (or kicks) and footwork to change the range of the target. Furthermore, basic pivoting would turn the elbows into straight attacks and set up solid counters in a similar way to how Floyd uses his Philly Shell guard. If the elbows miss the forward turned elbows, then you glance their shots off your angled forearms. I would imagine that moving in whilst glancing their punches could destabalise your opponents balance. I don't think it would work too well just sitting in the pocket waiting for someone to hit your elbows though. I think the fighter would need to be quite active to use this guard well. But as I said, I don't understand this guard and these are just my initial thoughts.
From memory, Joe Frazier used this guard against Ali. I always assumed that Frazier was stacking his defences high (because Ali typically head punched) and then lowered so as to take the body out of the rang of most attacks. Then he would leaps up and forward with that huge left hook. Reading these discussions makes me think that perhaps I didn't understand what Frazier was doing as well as I thought.
On a political level, I have noticed at low professional level that refs don't seem to respect this guard. I have seen a few big heavy weights pull this guard in a fight and the other guy just freezes. The ref stops them, tells the cross-guard fighter to start fighting and then starts again. The fighter then drops the cross-guard and they go back to more typical boxing guards. I don't know iif this is just a local australian boxing thing or whether this attitude is more widespread?
Based on previous discussion, it seems to me that this style could be used quite effectively with simple bobbing to defend against body attacks (or kicks) and footwork to change the range of the target. Furthermore, basic pivoting would turn the elbows into straight attacks and set up solid counters in a similar way to how Floyd uses his Philly Shell guard. If the elbows miss the forward turned elbows, then you glance their shots off your angled forearms. I would imagine that moving in whilst glancing their punches could destabalise your opponents balance. I don't think it would work too well just sitting in the pocket waiting for someone to hit your elbows though. I think the fighter would need to be quite active to use this guard well. But as I said, I don't understand this guard and these are just my initial thoughts.
From memory, Joe Frazier used this guard against Ali. I always assumed that Frazier was stacking his defences high (because Ali typically head punched) and then lowered so as to take the body out of the rang of most attacks. Then he would leaps up and forward with that huge left hook. Reading these discussions makes me think that perhaps I didn't understand what Frazier was doing as well as I thought.
On a political level, I have noticed at low professional level that refs don't seem to respect this guard. I have seen a few big heavy weights pull this guard in a fight and the other guy just freezes. The ref stops them, tells the cross-guard fighter to start fighting and then starts again. The fighter then drops the cross-guard and they go back to more typical boxing guards. I don't know iif this is just a local australian boxing thing or whether this attitude is more widespread?
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Frazier used more of a classic left shoulder forward shell, and would use the lock position from time to time. There are much better representations of the lock as a system in this thread.
The ref could be getting the impression that the fighter is attempting to attack or pin with the elbows, but if that isn't happening, then they should have nothing to say. If it's not happening and they're still complaining, they're just inexperienced.
The ref could be getting the impression that the fighter is attempting to attack or pin with the elbows, but if that isn't happening, then they should have nothing to say. If it's not happening and they're still complaining, they're just inexperienced.
