Straight punches in MMA

[villasenor]

Fedor outstruck Mirko Cro-Cop without throwing a jab. Manhoef doesnt use straight punches.

They don't have technique?

This is the internet, but be more polite, there's no need to be a dick.

crocop's boxing sucks, anyone can tell you that, plus being a southpaw he is begging for a straight right from anyone. his defense for a straight right seems to be putting his hand up to his opponent's face and hoping for the best.

mahoef would be stupid to fight using strategies for a taller fighter with a bigger reach, why would he try to out jab someone like bonjasky(6'4) or karaev(6'2), him being 5'8 is super small for a heavyweight

same could be said about guys like morkevicius and zambidis

 

[ssullivan80]

crocop's boxing sucks, anyone can tell you that, plus being a southpaw he is begging for a straight right from anyone.

Cro Cop isn't a boxer, so yes.....his boxing is not that of a pro level boxer. However, his striking in K1/kickboxing is very good.

If he were a boxer (not a K1 fighter) Being a southpaw he is begging for a straight right, with that outstretched arm of his. But he isn't he's a K1 kickboxer. That outstretched front arm is what he uses to gauge distance and measure that rear leg high kick he has punished so many fighters with. Further, being a southpaw, that straight right he is "begging for" is the best punch to counter with that high kick. Check out the highlights. I can't remember CCop ever getting hurt bad with a staight right (maybe he did), but I sure as hell can remember him kicking alot of guys in the face of the straight right counter! Even when they knew exactly what he wanted to do.

 

[SideofKO]

If he were a boxer (not a K1 fighter) Being a southpaw he is begging for a straight right, with that outstretched arm of his. But he isn't he's a K1 kickboxer. That outstretched front arm is what he uses to gauge distance and measure that rear leg high kick he has punished so many fighters with.

He is begging for a straight right no matter what he's doing. He's a southpaw. In Kickboxing or Boxing or MMA, he's always going to be more vulnerable to a Right Cross. His orthodox opponent will always be more vulnerable to a left hand by Cro Cop. It's the same. It's about the fundamental difference in where your body is relative to your orthodox opponent, not so much about the outstretched arm.

Further, being a southpaw, that straight right he is "begging for" is the best punch to counter with that high kick. Check out the highlights. I can't remember CCop ever getting hurt bad with a staight right (maybe he did), but I sure as hell can remember him kicking alot of guys in the face of the straight right counter! Even when they knew exactly what he wanted to do.

[/QUOTE]

Well, he's kicked a lot of guys in the face because they either have their hands a little too low, aren't circling properly, and the fact that his kick goes over their guard a lot of the time because his southpaw stance offers a great position to throw that kick in the first place.

 

[jlagman]

He is begging for a straight right no matter what he's doing. He's a southpaw. In Kickboxing or Boxing or MMA, he's always going to be more vulnerable to a Right Cross. His orthodox opponent will always be more vulnerable to a left hand by Cro Cop. It's the same. It's about the fundamental difference in where your body is relative to your orthodox opponent, not so much about the outstretched arm.

Well, he's kicked a lot of guys in the face because they either have their hands a little too low, aren't circling properly, and the fact that his kick goes over their guard a lot of the time because his southpaw stance offers a great position to throw that kick in the first place.[/QUOTE]

The weird thing is, Cro Cop's actually the one circling the wrong way. :icon_neut

 

[villasenor]

Cro Cop isn't a boxer, so yes.....his boxing is not that of a pro level boxer. However, his striking in K1/kickboxing is very good.

If he were a boxer (not a K1 fighter) Being a southpaw he is begging for a straight right, with that outstretched arm of his. But he isn't he's a K1 kickboxer. That outstretched front arm is what he uses to gauge distance and measure that rear leg high kick he has punished so many fighters with. Further, being a southpaw, that straight right he is "begging for" is the best punch to counter with that high kick. Check out the highlights. I can't remember CCop ever getting hurt bad with a staight right (maybe he did), but I sure as hell can remember him kicking alot of guys in the face of the straight right counter! Even when they knew exactly what he wanted to do.

watch him against hoost and see how he does against a straight right

all he does is extend his arm and backpedal when people try to set up punches, he was a lot more complete fighter back in the early 2000's but as of now, he's a fraction of the striker he was

 

[ssullivan80]

I really didn't want to comment on this thread, it is a no win argument no matter how you have it.

My Opinion (and that's what they all are "OPINIONS")

Saying straight punches are less effective/ not effective in MMA is foolish. They may be less effective for certain fighters (Fedor), but none the less, they can be very effective. I think even trying to compare effective striking in boxing to that of MMA, is impossible. Two completely different sports that share some similarities. An MMA fighter that cross trains in boxing will certainly benefit in MMA, but going into an MMA match and trying to fight a technical boxing match will not work (for long at least). Vice - Versa, trying to use the same striking in MMA, in a boxing match, will get you either DQ or KO.

whoever said "boxing is a more linear sport"....... What? unless your implying 4 corners is less than 6 (ring vs octagon), I cant make sense of that. Yes, MMA movements are much more prounounced and at more levels than boxing (ground, standing etc.) Boxing tends to be much more compact, but definetely not linear. Watch a guy like Hopkins or James Toney move in circles, punch from angles, hands up hands down, clinching, bumping etc..... all in an area the size of a kitchen mat! seriously, that is far from "linear"

Boxing is a far more refined sport (technically) than MMA. MMA certainly could surpass it someday, given the public interest and level of current fighters. However, MMA is still young and evolving, but could present far more variables than boxing as the sport refines itself.

In the beginning everyone wanted to learn BJJ (ala, Gracie etc....), and it was thought to be the most effective. Flaws were definetely found in that notion (CCop, Vsilva etc...) when they realized you can still get KO'd before you get the fight on the mat. I am willing to bet, with the popularity of guys like A Silva, GSP, Chuck..... we have thousands of 8 yr olds around the country learning flying knees, superman punches, switch kicks etc........ Let MMA evolve, it will be interesting. Sports like boxing or Muay thai, been around for a long time and the guys who are the best at them, really have extremely refined technical ability. We will call it NON-LINEAR TALENT for the sake of argument.

 

[ssullivan80]

watch him against hoost and see how he does against a straight right

all he does is extend his arm and backpedal when people try to set up punches, he was a lot more complete fighter back in the early 2000's but as of now, he's a fraction of the striker he was

I do remember that fight, but Hoost is one of the most elite fighters in the world. All things being equal, Cro Cop (early 2000's) "backpedaled" his way to an awfull long highlight reel! To say his style was uneffective, i think is a little short sighted.

His MMA striking is not working very well for him. But im pretty sure as a kickboxer, Mirco would still be a very dangerous opponent for any of the top level fighters.....

 

[Clinchster]

Actually, we kinda do in terms of Lyoto Machida and Kenny Florian. The "elusive" guys that are hard to take down and hard to start swinging wildly against (Don't lie, you probably thought Huerta would straight jack Kenflo up! I did too, but that obviously did not go the way we thought it would)). They sure throw a lot of straight punches.[/QUOTE]

I thought florian was the better fighter. seemed more hungry, and he's a lot less arrogant...that'll get to your head quick if your not careful...

 

[andrewbc]

bit of a dumb question, homie.

 

[nefti]

crocop's boxing sucks, anyone can tell you that, plus being a southpaw he is begging for a straight right from anyone. his defense for a straight right seems to be putting his hand up to his opponent's face and hoping for the best.

mahoef would be stupid to fight using strategies for a taller fighter with a bigger reach, why would he try to out jab someone like bonjasky(6'4) or karaev(6'2), him being 5'8 is super small for a heavyweight

same could be said about guys like morkevicius and zambidis

cro cops boxing does not suck. he is a former amature boxer with more than his share of boxing fights under his belt.

 

[villasenor]

cro cops boxing does not suck. he is a former amature boxer with more than his share of boxing fights under his belt.

amateur boxing or not, post K-1 CC only throws the occasional pot shot of a straiht left or right hook, maybe a left uppercut if we are lucky

 

[DrBdan]

I really didn't want to comment on this thread, it is a no win argument no matter how you have it.

My Opinion (and that's what they all are "OPINIONS")

Saying straight punches are less effective/ not effective in MMA is foolish. They may be less effective for certain fighters (Fedor), but none the less, they can be very effective. I think even trying to compare effective striking in boxing to that of MMA, is impossible. Two completely different sports that share some similarities. An MMA fighter that cross trains in boxing will certainly benefit in MMA, but going into an MMA match and trying to fight a technical boxing match will not work (for long at least). Vice - Versa, trying to use the same striking in MMA, in a boxing match, will get you either DQ or KO.

whoever said "boxing is a more linear sport"....... What? unless your implying 4 corners is less than 6 (ring vs octagon), I cant make sense of that. Yes, MMA movements are much more prounounced and at more levels than boxing (ground, standing etc.) Boxing tends to be much more compact, but definetely not linear. Watch a guy like Hopkins or James Toney move in circles, punch from angles, hands up hands down, clinching, bumping etc..... all in an area the size of a kitchen mat! seriously, that is far from "linear"

Boxing is a far more refined sport (technically) than MMA. MMA certainly could surpass it someday, given the public interest and level of current fighters. However, MMA is still young and evolving, but could present far more variables than boxing as the sport refines itself.

In the beginning everyone wanted to learn BJJ (ala, Gracie etc....), and it was thought to be the most effective. Flaws were definetely found in that notion (CCop, Vsilva etc...) when they realized you can still get KO'd before you get the fight on the mat. I am willing to bet, with the popularity of guys like A Silva, GSP, Chuck..... we have thousands of 8 yr olds around the country learning flying knees, superman punches, switch kicks etc........ Let MMA evolve, it will be interesting. Sports like boxing or Muay thai, been around for a long time and the guys who are the best at them, really have extremely refined technical ability. We will call it NON-LINEAR TALENT for the sake of argument.

lol, octagon = 8 not 6. What is this, the IFL?

Just kidding, I actually agree with your post and think it's a good response. I think the most important point is that MMA is still a young sport which is why you still see a lot of high-level guys that are world-class at one thing and then just adequate at others. In my opinion someone that is a great striker won't always look that great in MMA simply because they also have to worry about takedowns and grappling, which means less time focusing on their striking when training and more things to worry about when actually fighting.

 

[keusegg**]

any of fedor's big shots have been set up by knocking the opponents hand down or away/disrupting their balance (tim sylvia, zulu, etc) .. something i now do pretty much to set up 60% of my strikes when im sparring

 

[ssullivan80]

lol, octagon = 8 not 6. What is this, the IFL?

Just kidding, I actually agree with your post and think it's a good response. I think the most important point is that MMA is still a young sport which is why you still see a lot of high-level guys that are world-class at one thing and then just adequate at others. In my opinion someone that is a great striker won't always look that great in MMA simply because they also have to worry about takedowns and grappling, which means less time focusing on their striking when training and more things to worry about when actually fighting.

LOL...... my bad you're right!

I think thats why we see guys like A Silva or GSP, BJ (particulary against sherk), Marcus Davis, Spencer Fisher....etc, as some of MMA's best strikers. They are not as concerned with being taken down (Particulary Silva, BJ). Let's them fight a much more technical stand up game. Vs. a guy like Chuck Liddel incorporates his striking to adjust for not being taken down, not as technical of a striker..... but was pretty effective for a long time. Till he got in the ring with guys who were both technical strikers and good on the ground (Rampage, Forrest, Rashad), they were able to expose the holes in his game with superior striking. Marcus Davis is one of my favorite new fighters in the UFC, His boxing is very good and he has used it to his advantage, because his wrestling etc..... is not to bad. Unlike Alesio Sakara who really is a great technical striker (as far as UFC is concerned), but gets caught when he has to defend the takedown.

 

[Frode Falch]

Jeremy Horn's big mistake against Chuck in the rematch was that he came into the fight, not expecting Chuck to throw any straight punches.

 

[sickc0d3r]

i was surprised when i saw TS say "hooks, haymakers, and overhands" after "basic punches"... the most basic ARE the straight punches... jabs and crosses. and i see them all the time in mma (sonnen v fihlo last night for example).

but anyway it doesn't really require slick boxing skills to be effective. yes, all the other options you have can be set up with fundamental striking and footwork and the best fighters do just that... but you don't have time to spend rounds accumulating damage like a boxing match, and you are much more likely to land that looping ko punch simply because your opponent has to defend so many types of attacks. so if the opening is there take it...

that being said mma striking will evolve and in my opinion very quickly... why?... because fighters are figuring out that striking is what fans want to see. if you are an exciting striker you will get paid. if you are a BJJ guy or a wrestler you better be "world class" and win every fight or you won't be getting many phone calls.