Straight punches in MMA

[Chris_Keller]

Very simple question, hope it creates an intersting debate. Do you think straight punches are worth trhowing in the cage?

The best(most effective) strikers tend to keep it simple: hooks, haymakers, overhand rights and some leg kicks.
Melvin Manhoef
Wanderlei Silva
Fedor
Vovchanchyn
Aleks
Chuck

fighters who use them successfully:

Anderson Silva(sometimes)
Phil Baroni
Denis Kang
Nog
Tim Sylvia
Vitor Belfort

I personally think amateur boxing strategies have little to do with sucessfull striking in MMA. The best knockouts artists of the sport don't use them.

Straight punches are either underused or overrated.

We see a lot less straight punches in our sport than in boxing or kickboxing. The reason could be the fact that the fights are shorter and the time we spend toe-to-toe is pretty limited, so you have to create oppenings and to be aggressive. What do you reckon

 

[jlagman]

Straight punches are underused.

Fixed, the reason is that they cannot devote their time entirely to striking and neither can their competition; so they can get away with more sloppiness and unorthodox techniques.

 

[Chris_Keller]

Fixed, the reason is that they cannot devote their time entirely to striking and neither can their competition; so they can get away with more sloppiness and unorthodox techniques.

I really don't buy it.

Most pro fighters I've trained with spend nearly as much time working on their striking as the pure strikers. The level of competition is not the answer: some of the best stand-up fighters of the pure stand-up game have gotoustruck when they entered mma competion.


Throwing a straight punch is in their possibilities, believe me.

 

[CaliforniaLove**]

I haven't even taken Muay Thai for that long and I can tell this is a dumb thread. It's more of a lack of technique in MMA than a choice to throw hooks etc.

 

[Chris_Keller]

I haven't even taken Muay Thai for that long and I can tell this is a dumb thread. It's more of a lack of technique in MMA than a choice to throw hooks etc.

Fedor outstruck Mirko Cro-Cop without throwing a jab. Manhoef doesnt use straight punches.

They don't have technique?

This is the internet, but be more polite, there's no need to be a dick.

 

[Brent Schermerhorn]

I think it has to do with most often times MMA fights are not fought at a distance like boxing or kickboxing...and when YOU do extend yourself all the way out on a straight punch you pretty open for a lot of shit (ie:takedowns, flying knees etc..)
but i think most times when you're talking it also has to do with the caliber of fighters. How hard is it for a pro fighter to see a straight punch coming and either cover or just move? Most KO leave the victim asking "what'd he hit me with?"
just IMO

 

[Yanoush]

I don't see why they would be overrated

They would be even more effective with small gloves

 

[Cleaver_Fool]

I haven't even taken Muay Thai for that long and I can tell this is a dumb thread.

What does you taking Muay Thai lessons have to do with your opinion on this thread? One has nothing to do with the other...

 

[DrBdan]

Ask Sean Sherk what he thinks of BJ Penn's jab. I think it's kinda funny that the TS would say that the most effective strikers "keep it simpe" with hooks, haymakers etc. when jab & cross are usually the first and most basic punches taught.

 

[ambertch]

In general I agree with you, but not to your extreme. I agree MMA striking is different but I don't think looping punches are superior, and below I will state several reasons why I think so:

Straight punches are either underused or overrated.

It's a combination of overrated and underused. Only time will tell. MMA striking tactics will be different because MMA tactics are different. Almost nobody gets caught with overhand rights in boxing. They suck. But in MMA you can fake a shot and throw a surprise overhand right. You can fake kicks and punch. Of course, some striking techniques which are not effective in striking arts will become effective in MMA

I think the primary reason why Silva and Chuck had success with their styles of striking though is because they had all the skills to defend against what their opponents brought to the table. Their opponents though, did not have the skills to defend against what they brought. I don't think it's a good idea to use them as your argument for the superiority of their style of striking - as has been mentioned many times we have yet to see the evolution of MMA striking so in all probability the whole striking game could change in the coming years.

Also reinforcing my last point, and I think this is VERY important, just because their styles have been successful so far does not mean anything. A lot of great boxers from boxing's formative years threw haymakers and looping powershots and bombs and a sportswriter 100 years ago might be inclined to deduce these were the most effective shots and style of boxing. But obviously things have changed.

I personally think amateur boxing strategies have little to do with sucessfull striking in MMA. The best knockouts artists of the sport don't use them.

You're certainly right amateur boxing strategies have little to do with successful striking in MMA. Same with wrestling. Same with Judo. And nowadays you're getting a lot of BJJ guys who can't do shit when not starting on the knees. But just like the wrestlers who have transitioned, take a boxer like Marcus Davis and transition him to being a true mixed martial artist, and wow! Marcus Davis' hands and head movement when he trades punches is incredible. While he's still choking fools out left and right

I agree with you that the shorter time encourages aggression. But a major component missing from our discusion is that it's not clear yet how a defensive style fighter works in MMA from a tactical perspective. We have a bunch of aggresive fighters, we don't have any defensive MMA fighters yet (and there were few defensive fighters in boxing's golden age too) and their presence will go a long way in answering our question about straight punches.

Actually, we kinda do in terms of Lyoto Machida and Kenny Florian. The "elusive" guys that are hard to take down and hard to start swinging wildly against (Don't lie, you probably thought Huerta would straight jack Kenflo up! I did too, but that obviously did not go the way we thought it would)). They sure throw a lot of straight punches.

 

[epik]

MMA is not as linear of a sport as boxing. You may get a straight punch every once in a while but that's just because that's where the opponent happens to be.

In boxing, you've got big gloves so it's effective for a number of reasons but in MMA you've just got your fists so that straight jab puts you in danger because first of all, you're closer than you would be with a looping haymaker and you don't have that big glove to safely block possible quick counters and/or movements.

Not to mention a straight punch doesn't have as much power.

So I would say over-rated.

I think it's silly to think all MMA fighters are just not good enough to throw them properly. Fighters will do what works so if it's not being used much, well...

 

[ambertch]

MMA is not as linear of a sport as boxing. You may get a straight punch every once in a while but that's just because that's where the opponent happens to be.

In boxing, you've got big gloves so it's effective for a number of reasons but in MMA you've just got your fists so that straight jab puts you in danger because first of all, you're closer than you would be with a looping haymaker and you don't have that big glove to safely block possible quick counters and/or movements.

It's not good practice to regurgitate stuff you read on the internet. Have you ever seen 8oz Cleto Reyes? They aren't that much bigger than MMA gloves.

Besides, when's the last time you saw guys blocking everything? Blocking's the defense of last resort in boxing.

Boxing is linear? I hate to sound condescending because I realize you may not have had the money/resources/time to train adequately, but you need to spend more time in the gym.

 

[mrpopenfresh]

A great example is olympic boxing. I was wathcing them this summer and most of the guys, well the ones winning at least, were pretty much throwing bombs and looping punches all the time, overwhelming their opponents.

 

[SideofKO]

MMA is not as linear of a sport as boxing. You may get a straight punch every once in a while but that's just because that's where the opponent happens to be.

In boxing, you've got big gloves so it's effective for a number of reasons but in MMA you've just got your fists so that straight jab puts you in danger because first of all, you're closer than you would be with a looping haymaker and you don't have that big glove to safely block possible quick counters and/or movements.

So I would say over-rated.

No... just no.

First of all, boxing utilizes hooks, pivots, side-steps, angles as well as straight punches. And boxers have been doing it effectively for a long, long time. MMA striking isn't that much different. You have different variables for sure, but the fundamentals of boxing including straight punches are still very applicable. If you do not think so, then watch B.J. Penn use his jab effectively against Sherk. Watch GSP use his jab to keep his range to land kicks. Andre Arlovski is training with Freddie Roach.

Again, it's a minor adjustment with range where he gloves are smaller. If you throw a looping haymaker, you're always going to be open to straight punches. And the straight punches will get their quicker.

And contrary to popular belief, boxers don't always rely on the "pillows" on their hand to defend themselves. In fact, there are parries, slips, ducks, weaving, blocks that can be utilized with or without boxing gloves.

Straight punches are not overrated, they are underused and misunderstood. However, they are becoming more prevalent as the MMA competition gets better and better. Ask Anderson Silva as he trounces Chris Leben or basically anyone else with his superior jab, and range.

 

[mrpopenfresh]

The jab is definitely underused. Most great fighters use it incredibly well. Hell, some guys win fights with em.

 

[epik]

It's not good practice to regurgitate stuff you read on the internet. Have you ever seen 8oz Cleto Reyes? They aren't that much bigger than MMA gloves.

Yes, yes, and but they are, aren't they.

Besides, when's the last time you saw guys blocking everything? Blocking's the defense of last resort in boxing.

Like I said, the larger gloves do help in putting up some sort of barrier when you're up close and throwing a jab but you're right, it doesn't help THAT much. The bigger factor is probably how you can get back into a defensive position quickly after a jab in boxing but when you have to worry about hands that can grab, kicks, and takedowns, it's a far less appealing option.

Boxing is linear? I hate to sound condescending because I realize you may not have had the money/resources/time to train adequately, but you need to spend more time in the gym.

I didn't mean to sound condescending, I think boxing is a great sport that takes tremendous training and talent but, yes, it is very much so a more linear sport than MMA.

 

[SideofKO]

Like I said, the larger gloves do help in putting up some sort of barrier when you're up close and throwing a jab but you're right, it doesn't help THAT much. The bigger factor is probably how you can get back into a defensive position quickly after a jab in boxing but when you have to worry about hands that can grab, kicks, and takedowns, it's a far less appealing option.

No, it's an even more appealing option. Having to worry about headkicks alone should warrant that your hands be in a good defensive posture. Are you proposing that it would be more advantageous to a fighter to have his hands low or way out to the sides? Preposterous.

I didn't mean to sound condescending, I think boxing is a great sport that takes tremendous training and talent but, yes, it is very much so a more linear sport than MMA.

It's a linear sport with regard to what the fighter can do (takedowns, kicks, submissions, etc.) however depending on how you're defining linear here I'm not sure I know how to interpret what you're trying to convey.

 

[jayrico]

In boxing, you've got big gloves so it's effective for a number of reasons but in MMA you've just got your fists so that straight jab puts you in danger because first of all, you're closer than you would be with a looping haymaker and you don't have that big glove to safely block possible quick counters and/or movements.

Jab is the safest punch to throw. It's quick, provide its own cover and you are at the maximum distance at which you can have contact with your opponent.

 

[MUFC]

effective use of jabs in MMA will almost always win you the fight

 

[villasenor]

I really don't buy it.

Most pro fighters I've trained with spend nearly as much time working on their striking as the pure strikers. The level of competition is not the answer: some of the best stand-up fighters of the pure stand-up game have gotoustruck when they entered mma competion.


Throwing a straight punch is in their possibilities, believe me.

what fighters are you talking about?