Stopping single leg counter

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by sgu00dir, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. sgu00dir

    sgu00dir White Belt

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    Hey
    I enjoy DLR guard and have a few go to positions im comfortable in. Im fine getting to the DLR to single leg takedown position but keep screwing up the single leg. We do only BJJ and very little standup.

    Watched loads of videos but have one thing that always happens: i get the single leg, standup, seem to have control, then opponent sits down violently and either face plants me or thows over head judo style. Must be doing something wrong, any ideas how to minimise this risk. They are giving up sweep if only i could maintain control on top after this sacrifice throw. Im tall grappler, not much strength btw if that is relevant.

    Is there a counter to this counter, or tips on posture etc to prevent this?
     
  2. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    It sounds to me like you are getting countered with Sumi Gaeshi. Does this seem like what is happening?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    I guess I'd have to see exactly what they are doing but honestly it sounds like it is boiling down to poor finishing of the single leg on your part. There are as you probably have seen tons of videos on finishing the single. I would consider sweeping them, running the pipe, or transitioning to a double leg.

    Single leg to sweep (standing)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRHebPpbJqI

    Single leg run the pipe
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDzS9BteES0

    Multiple finishes
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BkUZ3wOQA

    I would pick a couple and drill them a lot. Once you get comfortable with it snatch a single and ask your training partner to defend it and slowly ramp up the resistance.
     
  4. sgu00dir

    sgu00dir White Belt

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    Yes that is it!! Thanks, very useful at least to know what the counter is called. Has happened 3 times in quick succession, twice against pesky judo cross training partners though once against I think an MMA guy. Leads me to think Im asking to be Sumi Gaeshi'd because of posture or something. Any ideas how to make sure this doesnt happen?

    Could be my laboured single leg, so if Im fast and tight with it maybe this is less of an issue?
    Also Im thinking maybe moving off to the side is better than being straight infront?
     
  5. Gambledub

    Gambledub Brown Belt

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    Hmm, this isn't my area of expertise so hopefully someone else will chime in. The listed counter to the Sumi Gaeshi on Judo info is the Ouchi Gari or inside trip. I guess this makes sense. So i'm assuming (based on the gif I posted) that you take your right leg and put it behind the opponents posting left leg and trip them down to their butt. This stops their ability to hop their left leg in between your legs to allow them to do the sumi gaeshi. I'm sure there's probably a simpler fix that someone with good leg attacks will suggest though.
     
  6. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    One of my favorite ways to finish the single is to pass the leg across your hips + reach across the back and trip the far leg. Most often you'll land in a good position attacking the back or knee on belly. That would at least minimize their ability to use the counter posted above.
     
  7. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Pressure down on their leg and keep your feet going back ie move backwards when you have his leg, not pushing in.
     
  8. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    What Holt said. The sweep works by loading your weight onto his shin. If your weight is not there the sweep cannot launch you.

    This is slightly harder in the gi.
     
  9. Russky

    Russky Green Belt

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    This is mostly grip and posture. Here's typical BJJ posture:

    [​IMG]

    A judoka with upright posture and dominant grip will have huge advantage over bent down bjjer. Any leg attack will be countered by just pushing down and then you get what you described.

    To prevent that your posture should be more upright than your opponent's, and your collar/shoulder grip should allow you to bend him down or put weight on him.

    The move starts with strong pull on the collar down. Wrestlers pull head down. Put your weight on, and your opponent will resist with upward motion. Once you feel that shoot for the leg.

    When you shoot you should be looking forward, not down. Chest is also pushing forward. Pushing with shoulder may get you countered with push to the floor. Once you are down you should be 90 degree to your opponent, not face to face so he does not counter you with sumi-gaeshi.
     
  10. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    kimura trap. Never fear wrestlers again.
     
  11. Cconstandse

    Cconstandse Black belt in Awesomeness!

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    Walking backwards instead of forward is a must.
    Also you must keep him on his toes, moving to the side or running the pipe as soon as possible.
    I suck at running the pipe, cause i cant put my weight on my shoulder while twisting his leg, so i use a modified grip on the legs with a rear naked kind of grip. These allows me to put the preassure on the leg easily and also to avoid the kimura hold sigle leg
    counter.
     
  12. rmongler

    rmongler Black Belt

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    Tree topping number wan single leh finish.
     
  13. fanboysareevil

    fanboysareevil Green Belt

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    Just a question for anyone with a lot of wrestling experience, what are the up/downsides of this grip and why isn't it used much in wrestling? I've been loving it lately for running the pipe but I dont' see it much in pure wrestling so I was wondering.
     
  14. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    It takes too much strength to get and is a shitty lock because it allows space. Wrestling is a sport that is thousands of years old. Most of the shit that doesnt work has been weeded out already. Newbs will always try to reinvent the wheel but if you look at top level wrestlers, they arent doing too much different from each other.
     
  15. ilike2pac

    ilike2pac White Belt

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    Walk backwards to avoid the throw and run the pipe as quickly as you can. If all else fails, switch to a high single. There are plenty of finishes from there.

    Also if your single leg just doesn't seem to work, don't keep on trying it the same way you are. Get a wrestler or someone with knowledge of takedowns to watch you and fix what you're doing wrong. Drill it the right way until you forget the wrong way. It will help you in the future.

    What worked for me very well against judo guys was a dump from the russian. If you put enough pressure you can take away there posture that they're so used to (standing up straight) and make them play your game.
     
  16. ilike2pac

    ilike2pac White Belt

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    Edit: Your problem may be that your head isn't in the right position. Make sure your head is on the center of the chest and your head is up, kinda like your about to motorboat them, lol. I can't see that throw working if you're doing that. That throw looks to be more of a counter to a high crotch or a double leg.
     
  17. Shizzx

    Shizzx Blue Belt

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    i use to do this all the time but its illegal now in ibjjf standards ( soo pissed)
     
  18. fanboysareevil

    fanboysareevil Green Belt

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    Just double checking, are we talking about the same grip? I'm referring to feeding the outside arm deeper and gripping the bicep rather than your own hand. It doesn't (for me) take any more strength to get to than a gable.
     
  19. VonHalen

    VonHalen Green Belt

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    Maybe I'm misinterpreting... But you just tell him to stand upright in posture? Against a wrestler that's a very bad idea. It works in Judo because rules prevent you from attacking with double/single leg attacks but in a generic grappling match standing upright can be a death sentence.
     
  20. Patrick F Carey

    Patrick F Carey Green Belt

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    Im not speaking for holt, but in my experience getting the rnc grip will take more work.

    On a snatch single you grab with a gable, you would have to then loosen your grip or adjust it in a way that will open up your elbow from your ribs. It will allow space in the transition, in my opinion.

    The only ways i ever grab singles are with a gable, or sometimes i will grab the ankle with the outside arm and the inside one high up on the thigh. My couch discourages the second grip so i have been getting away from it
     

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