"Steve Mazzagatti saved Frank Mir" has to be one of the longest lasting misconceptions in MMA

[KONE]

TLDR: Mir's situation actually worsened AFTER the stoppage if anything. Lesnar was more susceptible to being submitted than Mir was to being TKO'd. The stoppage only delayed the inevitable if anything.

One thing I never understood is why hardcore MMA fans still repeat this misconception to this day. I could understand if it was limited to just casuals who just saw a huge reffing mistake and base the entire fight on that, but people that analyze the fight still have this opinion, even years later. Why is that?

The Mazzagatti stoppage happened VERY early into the fight. How early? ~20 seconds in. The following clip shows the stoppage and Lesnar again in danger of being submitted right as the stoppage happens. Lesnar didn't even land anything remotely significant before the stoppage happened. Lesnar's GNP also clearly needed work.



When the fighters were reset, Mir slips (also could've been rocked by a punch, I still can't tell to this day what happened. Mir said it was a slip for what it's worth) and Lesnar ends up on top. While his GNP still clearly needed work, he was still in a much better position AFTER the ref stoppage. Lesnar also landed significantly more strikes after the stoppage (also top lel at Rogan saying "nice leg kicks by Mir" Rogan hasn't changed in years):



Just because Mir did virtually no damage to Lesnar in the fight does not mean that Lesnar was not in enormous trouble at every moment he was on the ground with someone like Mir. Mir's victories via submission almost always are very sudden and violent. He's not the type to systematically beat you down. Here are the two main submission attempts he had that were very close (first one especially):




And finally, the finish:



I'm not saying Mazzagatti didn't fuck up tremendously. I'm also not saying it's out of the realm of possibility that Lesnar could've won. But Mir was perfectly fine and in control of the situation. If the stoppage doesn't happen I think Mir submitting him is more favorable than Lesnar winning.

To say he "cost Lesnar that fight" is a very lazy analysis. I think people just don't give Mir enough credit for his submission attempts. People on here also like to overestimate how hurt Mir is in fights too for some reason. People said he "almost got KO'd by Todd Duffee" even though that statement has no basis in reality.

So I ask, do you still believe Mazzagatti cost Lesnar that fight?

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

I remember a video floating around years ago that showed three clear hammerfists to the back of Mir's head AFTER Lesnar was warned by Mazzagatti. So it was a justified stand up. I can't remember though, did he take a point from Lesnar?

 

[KONE]

I remember a video floating around years ago that showed three clear hammerfists to the back of Mir's head AFTER Lesnar was warned by Mazzagatti. So it was a justified stand up. I can't remember though, did he take a point from Lesnar?

Yes he did. I agree that taking a point away was astronomically retarded, but yeah, he did legit hit Mir in the back of the head a few times.

To Lesnar's credit though, Mir turns his head away when he's getting hit like that quite often. Did it vs Carwin, Nog 2, etc

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

Yes he did. I agree that taking a point away was astronomically retarded, but yeah, he did legit hit Mir in the back of the head a few times.

To Lesnar's credit though, Mir turns his head away when he's getting hit like that quite often. Did it vs Carwin, Nog 2, etc

He was warned though and did it three more times. I think it was justified

 

[hypocalking]

No I think the issue was Steve didn't stop it quick enough.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

I think Mir was about to attempt an arm bar before the ref broke them up.

 

[Mixedfights]

There was several blows to the back of the head and Mir DID turn his head away.

That being said Mir was getting destroyed. Just crushed. Good stoppage IMO.

 

[sirmorbach]

Great analysis, way beyond the classic lazy misconceptions. Sometimes a lie repeated quite often becomes the truth. Oh, and before someone claims that KONE is somehow biased towards Frank Mir, here's proof that he's reasonable enough not to act like a blind fanboy:

Yes he did. I agree that taking a point away was astronomically retarded, but yeah, he did legit hit Mir in the back of the head a few times.

To Lesnar's credit though, Mir turns his head away when he's getting hit like that quite often. Did it vs Carwin, Nog 2, etc

I totally agree that Lesnar was in just as much risk, especially when we consider Frank's submission style. His attempts have always been explosive and violent.

 

[KONE]

I think Mir was about to attempt an arm bar before the ref broke them up.

Yup. In the first vid, Mir's legs are going up for an armbar just as the stoppage happens. Edit: or looking to set something up and chain shit together like he usually does.

No I think the issue was Steve didn't stop it quick enough.

If you're talking about the submission, yeah probably. Lesnar in a pre-UFC 100 coundown video was rewatching the submission and got super pissed at Steve for not stopping it soon. "Ok how many times did I have to tap his leg there? Mazzagatti is a fucking dickead" lolol

But I've also seen hordes of people say the issue was "Steve saved Mir's life" which is kinda retarded all things considered

 

[mb23100]

One of my all time favorite submissions.

 

[BigGing]

I think it's just because normally the refs just yell at the fighters to watch the back of the head and don't reset the fight.

 

[Deleted member 491149]

There was several blows to the back of the head and Mir DID turn his head away.

That being said Mir was getting destroyed. Just crushed. Good stoppage IMO.

Lol...Bork couldn't even land a clean shot before the stand up,

after the stand up Mir was in a much more compromising situation with Lesnar having more control over him, but Mir still managed to pull off the sub

 

[KONE]

Great analysis, way beyond the classic lazy misconceptions. Sometimes a lie repeated quite often becomes the truth. Oh, and before someone claims that KONE is somehow biased towards Frank Mir, here's proof that he's reasonable enough not to act like a blind fanboy:



I totally agree that Lesnar was in just as much risk, especially when we consider Frank's submission style. His attempts have always been explosive and violent.

Thank you friend-o. I try to be as objective as possible despite my 100% total heterosexual love for the man.

Lol...Bork couldn't even land a clean shot before the stand up,

after the stand up Mir was in a much more compromising situation with Lesnar having more control over him, but Mir still managed to pull off the sub

And THIS comes from someone who hates Mir.

 

[Deleted member 491149]

Thank you friend-o. I try to be as objective as possible despite my 100% total heterosexual love for the man.



And THIS comes from someone who hates Mir.

haha, my dislike for Mir stems from his comments on Fedor and how he discredited the HW's competing elsewhere since HW is my favourite division

also, he reminds me of a douche i knew growing up, though Mir is much more articulate and intelligent, so i may be too rough on him

 

[KONE]

haha, my dislike for Mir probably is due to his comments on Fedor and how he discredited the HW's competing elsewhere since HW is my favourite division

also, he reminds me of a douche i knew growing up, though Mir is much more articulate and intelligent, so i may be too rough on him

Mir's bounced around from saying "Fedor is the best" to "Fedor was scared to fight in the UFC" quite often. I just think it has a lot to do with being a UFC company man. You know deep down he has the utmost respect for him

 

[Deleted member 491149]

Mir's bounced around from saying "Fedor is the best" to "Fedor was scared to fight in the UFC" quite often. I just think it has a lot to do with being a UFC company man. You know deep down he has the utmost respect for him

prolly...

no one can sell me a fight quite like Mir, not even Brock or McDicks

 

[sirmorbach]

"MMAJUNKIE.COM: OK, onto the fight. When we spoke earlier, you mentioned that the decision to deduct Lesnar one point for strikes to the back of Mir’s head was pretty clear. Can you explain?

STEVE MAZZAGATTI: These fighters are extremely skilled fighters, and a grappler like Frank, that’s what they’re trained to do: when you have a guy in half guard on top of you, you don’t want to give the guy room to punch. So that was Mir’s defense. You suck up close to (your opponent’s) chest, tuck yourself up under them, and that covers you from getting hit. At first, Brock started to do the right thing by winding up with the hook from behind and pushing Mir’s head away from his stomach. Then you can blast him in the face… but to have to worry about getting struck in the back in the head in a situation like that isn’t something Frank should have had to worry about. But that was a target that presented itself to Brock.

[...]

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Did you issue Lesnar a warning? That’s a big part of this whole thing, you know? Some fans think you didn’t issue a warning.

STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Yeah, I did. Brock’s excited. It’s a big, big opportunity for him, and — in my opinion — he looked down and saw the head there, and he took three shots at him and caught him. I jump in and say, 'Don’t hit at the back of the head.' A few more seconds go by, Mir tucks up under there again, and Brock comes down with the second couple hits to the back of the head. That’s when I jumped in and had to do my job. That’s what I saw."

I know Mazzagatti is, well... controversial. But I get his points on this.

And more importantly, what needs to be settled IMO is what KONE's been saying. Whether the stoppage was right or not, the point is: the referee didn't "save" Mir, because he was in control of the situation and Lesnar was in just as much danger, considering Frank's style and submission attempts.

 

[KONE]

"MMAJUNKIE.COM: OK, onto the fight. When we spoke earlier, you mentioned that the decision to deduct Lesnar one point for strikes to the back of Mir’s head was pretty clear. Can you explain?

STEVE MAZZAGATTI: These fighters are extremely skilled fighters, and a grappler like Frank, that’s what they’re trained to do: when you have a guy in half guard on top of you, you don’t want to give the guy room to punch. So that was Mir’s defense. You suck up close to (your opponent’s) chest, tuck yourself up under them, and that covers you from getting hit. At first, Brock started to do the right thing by winding up with the hook from behind and pushing Mir’s head away from his stomach. Then you can blast him in the face… but to have to worry about getting struck in the back in the head in a situation like that isn’t something Frank should have had to worry about. But that was a target that presented itself to Brock.

[...]

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Did you issue Lesnar a warning? That’s a big part of this whole thing, you know? Some fans think you didn’t issue a warning.

STEVE MAZZAGATTI: Yeah, I did. Brock’s excited. It’s a big, big opportunity for him, and — in my opinion — he looked down and saw the head there, and he took three shots at him and caught him. I jump in and say, 'Don’t hit at the back of the head.' A few more seconds go by, Mir tucks up under there again, and Brock comes down with the second couple hits to the back of the head. That’s when I jumped in and had to do my job. That’s what I saw."

I know Mazzagatti is, well... controversial. But I get his points on this.

And more importantly, what needs to be settled IMO is what KONE's been saying. Whether the stoppage was right or not, the point is: the referee didn't "save" Mir, because he was in control of the situation and Lesnar was in just as much danger, considering Frank's style and submission attempts.

Mazzagatti did take his sweet ass time pulling Mir off of Lesnar tho

 

[BigGucciSosa]

Frank got cocky and ate Brock strawberries, we all know how that turned out

 

[MayhemMonkey]

TLDR: Mir's situation actually worsened AFTER the stoppage if anything. Lesnar was more susceptible to being submitted than Mir was to being TKO'd.

One thing I never understood is why hardcore MMA fans still repeat this misconception to this day. I could understand if it was limited to just casuals who just saw a huge reffing mistake and base the entire fight on that, but people that analyze the fight still have this opinion, even years later. Why is that?

The Mazzagatti stoppage happened VERY early into the fight. How early? ~20 seconds in. The following clip shows the stoppage and Lesnar again in danger of being submitted right as the stoppage happens. Lesnar's GNP also clearly needed work.



When the fighters were reset, Mir slips (also could've been rocked by a punch, I still can't tell to this day what happened. Mir said it was a slip for what it's worth) and Lesnar ends up on top. While his GNP still clearly needed work, he was still in a much better position AFTER the ref stoppage. Lesnar also landed significantly more strikes after the stoppage (also top lel at Rogan saying "nice leg kicks by Mir" Rogan hasn't changed in years):



Just because Mir did virtually no damage to Lesnar in the fight does not mean that Lesnar was not in enormous trouble at every moment he was on the ground with someone like Mir. Mir's victories via submission almost always are very sudden and violent. He's not the type to systematically beat you down. Here are the two main submission attempts he had that were very close (first one especially):




And finally, the finish:



I'm not saying Mazzagatti didn't fuck up tremendously. I'm also not saying it's out of the realm of possibility that Lesnar could've won. But Mir was perfectly fine and in control of the situation. If the stoppage doesn't happen I think Mir submitting him is more favorable than Lesnar winning.

To say he "cost Lesnar that fight" is a very lazy analysis. I think people just don't give Mir enough credit for his submission attempts. People on here also like to overestimate how hurt Mir is in fights too for some reason. People said he "almost got KO'd by Todd Duffee" even though that statement has no basis in reality.

So I ask, do you still believe Mazzagatti cost Lesnar that fight?