Movies STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS v.9 (Dragonlord's Review)

[Adamant]

You know, we need a thread where people can go and hate things. I was just in a different thread and all some guy had to say is "I've always hated this movie franchise you guys are discussing."

You guys need an Oscar the Grouchy Smurf on His Period thread.

I wish I was content with mediocrity but I'm not. Ep. VII was about as mediocre as it gets. I'm glad it wasn't prequel-bad, but still, I just wasn't satisfied. I really don't feel the need to own it on BD when it comes out. I'm sure I'll check it out from time to time every now and again on Netflix, but that's about it.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Maybe you've just outgrown the series. It beat all my expectations. Anything in particular you didn't like, or something you wanted to see but didn't? I'm honestly just curious to understand your perspective.

 

[Adamant]

Maybe you've just outgrown the series. It beat all my expectations. Anything in particular you didn't like, or something you wanted to see but didn't? I'm honestly just curious to understand your perspective.

Definitely haven't outgrown the series. I still get the butterflies and excitement when watching the OT (pre-GL tinkering). I now only pull it out maybe once every 3 years, but it's wonderul and exciting every time.

It's hard to nail down everything about VII that I disliked. It's just like when you see a movie you really like, you just know. And when you don't completely like it, you just know. For example, when I walked out of the theater after seeing Mad Max, I knew immediately that I liked it; I had a smile on my face and when asked what I thought, I basically said "that was fuckin awesome!". But for VII, I walked out of the theater with mixed feelings, really unsure of how I felt. I knew I didn't love it. I knew I didn't hate it. I knew I had some major problems with specific aspects of it (the bullshit final fight - - the bullshit, vastly inferior reharsh of ANH), but overall I was just trying to figure out if I was disappointed or not. I saw it a second time and it definitely wasn't as good the second time around. It definitely solidified my feelings of unhappiness with it.

Again, not good. Not bad. Just meh. Extremely meh.

 

[BVG]

I went and saw the movie again. Most the problems I had with the movie actually weren't bad. Kylo was clearly toying with Finn at the end, until he got slightly hit, then ended it right away.
At first I thought it was an actual fight, now I don't think it was at all. He just got prideful and over confident and got slightly hit. But it's clear the fight was nothing. Like a cat with a mouse. Edit-after writing this I read madmicks, I swear I came up with the cat mouse comparison on my own. But I completely agree with Madmick. Kylo was overconfident against a seemingly powerless oppenent, and got caught a little. Then he said "alright fuck this noob" and ended it.

Im not sure if others have said this but I thought of something watching it again. At first I thought when Rey controlled the guard it was just a cheap callback to a new hope. I thought how the fuck would she even think to do that? But now I'm thinking when she read/felt kylos thoughts maybe she learned a few things. She knew his desires and fears. And I'm not sure if she even knew who darth Vader was until she read his thoughts. If she could learn that maybe she picked up a few ideas on how to use the force. She did hear of Luke already so maybe she did know Vader. But still maybe when she felt his thoughts maybe she picked up something else. A little more of an idea of how to use the force.

The glossing over of the death at the end, I don't feel as upset at anymore. They showed people crying etc. Idk, maybe a little rushed but it seemed like chewy just wanted to be alone.

Over all I think this movie was really well done. I'm sure this will piss people off but I think it's the best one. I highly respect the originals for being so far ahead of their time and still being fun to watch now. But If I judge it fairly I think the new one is the best of the series.

Should have been conveyed better. With more cat mouse moments. I look at darth Vader using 1 hand on his light sabre versuses Luke's 2. Luke straining and using a ton of effort only to get swatted aside effortlessly. This would have been better visually to convey a direction that took you two watching a to get.

Or how about ren daring Finn to swing, and then effortlessly dodging it while slicing Finn a controlled superficial wound?

know what people didn't want to see? Their bad ass villain with the bad ass mask and the sparkling new look broad sword light saber look like he's putting in just as much effort on his swings as Finn is. That's Finn remember? The lowly sanitation storm trooper who's only held the high stature light saber twice.

Bad choice.

Fans didn't want the bad ass villain to come across as an emo bratty teenager. You can claim how brilliant the choices were but I can simply point to the many posters in this thread and all over the net that either didn't get the direction jj has for ren, or simply just don't like it.

There was no mistaken what darth Vader was. His character was simple as black and white. It's because of this, that fans liked him.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Well he could have just force choked him. So that shows it was a game. But watch the scene again, this time looking to see if its a struggle. Its not. And again, he was just with a crossbow laser. As soon as Finn landed a small blow Kylo ended the fight. He could have killed both of them with utter ease. Smash Rey against the tree. Snap Finns back with the force. But he was hurt, took it easy on both of them.

I mean I kind of got that the first time I saw it, but seeing it again made it more clear. Maybe Rey winning the force battle was over the light sabre was a bit much.

I get what your saying though, a more dominant show of power by kylo would be cool. I hope now that he will finish his training we see him become much more powerful. I know Luke trained him to some degree along with Smoke and maybe he should be more powerful. But then again maybe he's just a bitch. I mean his parents weren't Jedi's according to the movies. Vader was much more powerful. Who knows who Reys parents are. She could end up being like Goku.

You can also see Kylo was much more refined in how he moved his saber.

Now my biggest complaint would have to be there being a death Star.... AGAIN lol. But then again, if like, Japan somehow stopped us from using an Abomb, would we just give up? No we'd build ten more. So maybe it makes sense. Keep building the death stars. Although maybe invest in a damn fleet to defend them.

 

[Bob Gray]

Domestic matters as studios get like 50% vs 25% for international. or something. it will likely beat Titanic worldwide because of china. Currently without China, where it releases on the 9th, it will be close to Jurassic worlds number after this weekend.

Avatar was one of the first movies with a big Chinese box office. It had the Record till Furious 7, and was also beat by Jurrasic World. I mention Jurassic world as i think there is a dispute about Furious 7's real chinese box office numbers, as it made more money in China than in the US.

Opening weekend the studios get a 90/10 split with the theater. Then 80/20 the next week, and so on until 60/40 but I can't remember who the split favors at the end, I believe it's the studio but Im not certain. This is why the opening weekend is such a big deal, that's when the studios can get the most profit up front.

I read something about estimated breakdowns for overseas and it was something like 50% less goes to the studios for overseas box office iirc.

 

[Bob Gray]

So I was thinking about Ren and his storyline. I said much earlier about how my big problem with how the story played out is that Ren doesn't exactly feel like a looming threat and they're gonna have to do something big to make him get cred as a legitimate villain and threat to Rey in the next movie. My fear was they kinda had to make him kill Luke or something drastic to make up for his beatdown in TFA. Then I had an idea. I've never quite been big on the whole "Rule of Two" thing as the movies progressed. It's hard to raise the threat when it's always two people. So how bout this:

Suppose Ren becomes a Sith under Snoke and gets all dark side powerful and whatnot. Now Ren kills Snoke and decides to he's going to train the Knights of Ren to be full on Sith. Now we have a much bigger threat and in turn Ren has upped his bad ass meter. Also, this could set up Luke making a sacrifice as opposed to somehow being beat. Something like they expect Ren, and somehow a bunch of Sith show up. Now Luke has to sacrifice himself so Rey can get away.

It's all off the top of my head, but the key point is that Ren kills Snoke so he can train more Sith and disregard the Rule of Two. Thus becoming a pretty impressive villain in a 3rd installment.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Idk if they would kill Snoke. They will reveal him to be Plaguis. I don't see how he won't be Plaguis since he had the same music as him. I think he's too important to the lore to kill off so soon. Maybe in the final movie, but there won't be enough time for Ren to train more Siths.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

over 2 weeks later and still line ups and packed theatres.

 

[Thunderflash500]

BTW I'm probably late to the party. But after getting lost in YouTube videos I'm convinced Jar Jar was meant to be Plaguis. Let's look at what I view to be the most compelling evidence.

1. He used what appeared to be a force jump.

2. Sideous got a transmission from someone giving the queens location despite quigon (sp?) Telling everyone no transmissions. Who sent it? Possibly jar jar.

3. His eye color matches a Siths lord.

4. George Lucas likes the idea of characters appearing weak and foolish and then becoming powerful. Yoda is an example. When first introduced Luke thought yoda was some crazy old fool. So it sets precedent.

5. There are scenes, such as every scene he gets promoted, that he's moving his mouth and hand, as if controlling others speech with the force.

And the most compelling. Jar Jar, a bumbling fool who supposedly can't do anything, not only has engineering knowledge which was shown when he fixed Anakins racer, but he became a senator? And then the literal representation for the queen in the senate. AND HE GOT THE SENATE TO GIVE DICTATORIAL POWERS TO PALPATINE. And oh yea, jar jar just happened to be from the same planet as a Sith lord. Palpatine and jar jar are from the same planet.

There's so much more to. I'm 100% convinced Jar jar was meant to be the main enemy, but backlash from the fans ended that plot line. It all just completely adds up and honestly in my mind isn't even a stretch. To me it's more of a stretch that it was all just one accident after another. A bumbling idiot lucked his way into giving a Sith dictator powers. I think it's clear JarJar wanted a Sith to rule, while he, plaguis, was the real mastermind, and the most powerful Sith in the galaxy.

Look at Jar Jars eyes and tell me that's just an accident.

 

[hearthstone25]

I agree thunderflash.

I think he should've went with it. I mean the reason why everybody hated Jar Jar was because he was such a bumbling idiot. But if he had went with his original gameplan, he could've pulled an officer doofy with Jar Jar.

.....


It would've been brilliant too like nobody would've seen that shit coming. The main point of Jar Jar of being an annoying dumbass was to trick everybody and it WORKED.
Im sorry but this..

..
could've been AWESOME.

 

[Madmick]

Idk if they would kill Snoke. They will reveal him to be Plaguis. I don't see how he won't be Plaguis since he had the same music as him. I think he's too important to the lore to kill off so soon. Maybe in the final movie, but there won't be enough time for Ren to train more Siths.

I'm just not sold. That Mon Calamari opera theme mainly served to set an ominous mood for Palpatine's conversations seducing Anakin to the dark side, so it belongs more to Darth Sidious (the music setting the tone for Palpatine revealing himself) than it does to Plagueis whose biography is recounted. I've also read the observation that Kylo said, "The Supreme Leader is wise", and of course, Palpatine's master was known as "Plagueis the Wise".

Here's the reason I don't trust any of this. Abrams has made the incredibly smart decision of making this franchise all about misdirection from the inside. Everything has been a lie.

BTW I'm probably late to the party. But after getting lost in YouTube videos I'm convinced Jar Jar was meant to be Plaguis. Let's look at what I view to be the most compelling evidence.

1. He used what appeared to be a force jump.

2. Sideous got a transmission from someone giving the queens location despite quigon (sp?) Telling everyone no transmissions. Who sent it? Possibly jar jar.

3. His eye color matches a Siths lord.

4. George Lucas likes the idea of characters appearing weak and foolish and then becoming powerful. Yoda is an example. When first introduced Luke thought yoda was some crazy old fool. So it sets precedent.

5. There are scenes, such as every scene he gets promoted, that he's moving his mouth and hand, as if controlling others speech with the force.

And the most compelling. Jar Jar, a bumbling fool who supposedly can't do anything, not only has engineering knowledge which was shown when he fixed Anakins racer, but he became a senator? And then the literal representation for the queen in the senate. AND HE GOT THE SENATE TO GIVE DICTATORIAL POWERS TO PALPATINE. And oh yea, jar jar just happened to be from the same planet as a Sith lord. Palpatine and jar jar are from the same planet.

There's so much more to. I'm 100% convinced Jar jar was meant to be the main enemy, but backlash from the fans ended that plot line. It all just completely adds up and honestly in my mind isn't even a stretch. To me it's more of a stretch that it was all just one accident after another. A bumbling idiot lucked his way into giving a Sith dictator powers. I think it's clear JarJar wanted a Sith to rule, while he, plaguis, was the real mastermind, and the most powerful Sith in the galaxy.

Look at Jar Jars eyes and tell me that's just an accident.

1. Meh. Many species have greater athletic abilities in some manner over humans.
   
2. Possible, but that requires a long-range communicator, and Jar Jar was with Qui-Gonn, Padme, and Anakin in Mos Eisley; he was not on the ship with Obi-Wan that had the communicators which Qui-Gonn ordered Obi-Wan not to let them use. I always thought Padme was the culprit, and that with her short-range communicator, when notified by her servants of the situation, ordered them to make the transmission anyway. Remember Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn were unaware she was the actual Queen. They were negotiating compliance with the wrong people. Furthermore, she knew Palpatine from when she was young as he was Naboo's residing Senator to the Republic. She trusted him completely. It is firmly established that Padme will go rogue if she has to in order to save her people. She wouldn't let them die if it meant merely risking herself.
   
3. All Gungans were shown to have yellow/orange eyes.
   
4. I like this rationale the most, though it's still flimsy. I like that it makes sense of his inexplicable Mr. Magoo powers where the apparent klutz was accidentally destructive. The problem is Jar Jar had this reputation going back years, so again, the timeline didn't match up.
   
5. I just re-watched the scene where he was promoted to "Bombad General" and I didn't see anything like this.

It doesn't make sense to believe that Plagueis was working with Palpatine at this point. If Palpatine had already killed him, then it doesn't make sense that Plagueis would be cooperating with him (even if he had somehow successfully transferred his consciousness despite that he was always shown to be lacking in the ability to stabilize a resurrection). If the presumption instead, then, is that Plagueis formed a new plan to help Palpatine obtain sole control of the Galaxy, then I'm not sure if it makes sense to wait 23 years for someone else to depose him. That seems overly passive. Alternatively, if Palpatine hadn't already killed him, in which case them still cooperating at that point makes sense, then Plagueis would still be a Muun, not a Gungan. Wrong species.

Finally, I think the fact that Jar Jar ascended to power was something of a commentary by Lucas about politicians, and how many incompetent, stupid, easily manipulated people ascend to power in the most powerful legislature in the known world; more than that, I think George thought he was funny, and that kids would like him. It was just a poor decision pandering to a demographic. Jar Jar didn't live up to the R2-D2 and C-3PO which were the progenitors of his structural role in the movies.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

3 x the population and 2x the ticket price...and still makes 5x less than it does in the USA, so yes they di but its still a valuable market.

 

[HUNTERMANIA]

Watching The Clone Wars TV show and I actually like it a lot. Thanks for recommending it in the last thread. It's better than the prequels or the latest movie, lol, this is real Star Wars. I'm excited to see what we learn over the 6 seasons (I'm mid-way through season 1)

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Maybe you've just outgrown the series. It beat all my expectations. Anything in particular you didn't like, or something you wanted to see but didn't? I'm honestly just curious to understand your perspective.

This. I loved it and ANH was the first film I ever saw in a theater. I'm an old school SW fan and was ready for the disappointment to continue, and am very pleased by the new film and characters.
The plot... well, that was pretty much the same, but it worked the second time too.
The table is set for the next film, which will have fewer crutches to lean on now that all the old stuff has been dusted off for affection's sake.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

This Darth Jar Jar theory has reached 9/11 inside job conspiracy theory levels of unbelievablility.

Guys, George Lucas based Jar Jar off Goofy.

Fucking Goofy.

This evil motherfucker.

 

[Tyrannosaurus rex]

I don't think that mouthing so many words that other people say is a coincidence. Jar Jar was computer generated, so all of his actions were intentional. It's not an actor making random movements by accident or something.

 

[Luger]

I don't think that mouthing so many words that other people say is a coincidence. Jar Jar was computer generated, so all of his actions were intentional. It's not an actor making random movements by accident or something.

And didn't he smirk at the funeral?


Edit: here it is

 

[PRIDEWASBETTER]

Lightsabers don't melt steel beams.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

He simply lost his composure. Both the light side and the dark side have precarious quicksands to navigate. For young, talented light side users it tends to be overconfidence against overwhelming odds. Yoda mentioned that in the prequels. For dark side users it appears to be hubris in the face of seemingly harmless opponents. It's like a cat playing with a ball. They want to savor the domination. Like I said before, if he wanted to kill Finn, he didn't have to fight him. Finn has no ability to amplify his force power through the saber. He can't defend force powers. All Kylo had to do was crush his neck or chest with a powerful force choke. He didn't have another threat to worry about to concentrate for that mere moment. Rey was concussed. Fight lasts a second if he wants. He was trying to toy with them, and he became frustrated when it wasn't easy after Rey concentrated (only realistic due to Kylo's condition, but he didn't respect his own wounds...he seemed to feel the need to test his strength against them which appears to be another dark side foible).

To iterate, like Anakin, he is clearly at his worst when he isn't emotionally composed, and worst of all when he is emotionally conflicted. He was conflicted with Han. He was conflicted with Rey (we aren't yet sure why), or he wouldn't have attempted to turn her. Perhaps it was again arrogance thinking he could.

Anakin gets his ass kicked when he's furious or conflicted. Nobody alive could oppose him when he was emotionally composed.

haha....i'm just goading people into another discussion about this, it's been a few pages since we've had someone complain about apparent inconsistencies and how Rey & Fin NEARLY beat Ren.

I'm 100% in agreement with your post.