Movies STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS v.9 (Dragonlord's Review)

[D3THRONED]

right back at ya fella.

I've seen it three times. Still want to watch it more. Seems like you're wrong

 

[sickc0d3r]

I'm really hoping Kylo comes back in the sequel a twisted, bitter, fully trained sith lord who's so powerful yet unstable that his temper tantrums have become uncontrollable, and he's always accidentally force choking to death entire groups of women and children who happen to be in the vicinity. Like an emo, death metal version of Jean Grey with a helmet.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I haven't seen anyone say it's a trailblazing, brilliant film. But a fun, entertaining SW movie. SW isn't the kind of movie you judge the same way as Godfather or Citizen Kane.

It's been brought multiple times it's fairly likely Rey is not a newcomer to force training. Hence the name of the movie.

I dunno how anything Phasma does can be out of character considering she had a minute of screen time.

The original trilogy is filled with obvious plot holes. If you were to see it today without nostalgia blinders you'd be complaining about so many things.

You keep bringing up the same points ad nauseam, as if somehow your subjective feelings prove other peoples subjective opinions invalid. And I realize you're gonna reply with "Forum discussion board, derp derp", but doesn't it get tiresome?

Sorry, I enjoyed the movie but that dog won't hunt. Rey was dumped on the planet as a small child. She's had zero training in the Force. She's naturally talented, yes, and has had to fight to survive all her life. But no way she should be able to stand and bang with Kylo. Even if he is injured. It was a major plot hole. I could accept her being more naturally powerful than Kylo in aspects of the Force such as Telekinesis or Telepathy. But even with a major injury, Kylo should have pusher her shit in(obligatory Daisy Ridley anal reference)with a Lightsaber.

Smash Jon Bones in the ribs with a baseball bat, then make him fight a strong but completely untrained opponent. Bones will beat him to a pulp. It won't be pretty to watch, and it will take longer than usual, but the ending will never be in doubt.

I liked the movie and I liked Kylo, but they done fucked up with that fight. Kylo has a long way to go before he even rivals Maul, never mind his grand daddy.

 

[Dizzy]

Sorry, I enjoyed the movie but that dog won't hunt. Rey was dumped on the planet as a small child. She's had zero training in the Force. She's naturally talented, yes, and has had to fight to survive all her life. But no way she should be able to stand and bang with Kylo. Even if he is injured. It was a major plot hole. I could accept her being more naturally powerful than Kylo in aspects of the Force such as Telekinesis or Telepathy. But even with a major injury, Kylo should have pusher her shit in(obligatory anal reference)with a Lightsaber.

Smash Jon Bones in the ribs with a baseball bat, then make him fight a strong but completely untrained opponent. Bones will beat him to a pulp. It won't be pretty to watch, and it will take longer than usual, but the ending will never be in doubt.

I liked the movie and I liked Kylo, but they done fucked up with that fight. Kylo has a long way to go before he even rivals Maul, never mind his grand daddy.

You don't know that. We aren't privy to her backstory yet.

Luke having the whole Jedi academy thing going gives a lot of credence to the fact that she may have been a survivor from the Knights of Ren attacking.

 

[KnightTemplar]

You don't know that. We aren't privy to her backstory yet.

Luke having the whole Jedi academy thing going gives a lot of credence to the fact that she may have been a survivor from the Knights of Ren attacking.

Doesn't change the fact she was a small child when she was abandoned on the planet, and since that time has had absolutely no training at all. While Ren had been training intensively for years.

 

[shockaholic12]

Sorry, I enjoyed the movie but that dog won't hunt. Rey was dumped on the planet as a small child. She's had zero training in the Force. She's naturally talented, yes, and has had to fight to survive all her life. But no way she should be able to stand and bang with Kylo. Even if he is injured. It was a major plot hole. I could accept her being more naturally powerful than Kylo in aspects of the Force such as Telekinesis or Telepathy. But even with a major injury, Kylo should have pusher her shit in(obligatory anal reference)with a Lightsaber.

Smash Jon Bones in the ribs with a baseball bat, then make him fight a strong but completely untrained opponent. Bones will beat him to a pulp. It won't be pretty to watch, and it will take longer than usual, but the ending will never be in doubt.

I liked the movie and I liked Kylo, but they done fucked up with that fight. Kylo has a long way to go before he even rivals Maul, never mind his grand daddy.

You'd have to change your example to shooting Jon Jones in the ribs with a larger caliber gun (chewie's crossbow sent storm troopers flying through the air) then as he continues to bleed have him fighting a weaker opponent (Finn) and then immediately after that fight have him fight a pretty strong opponent who obviously has some melee weapon fighting skills (she knew how to use that staff and had to fight for herself on a outlaw scavenger planet her whole life without a blaster) who also naturally has a stronger force potential. And he's supposed to be stomping holes in Rey's ass?

Remember in the first movie all Luke has to do is focus on using the force to become the best X-wing pilot in the galaxy and show up at Vader's house and blow that shit up after spending his whole life only shooting womp rats. Force potential in rookies totally trumps experience all the time in Star Wars

 

[KnightTemplar]

1

You'd have to change your example to shooting Jon Jones in the ribs with a larger caliber gun (chewie's crossbow sent storm troopers flying through the air) then as he continues to bleed have him fighting a weaker opponent (Finn) and then immediately after that fight have him fight a pretty strong opponent who obviously has some melee weapon fighting skills (she knew how to use that staff and had to fight for herself on a outlaw scavenger planet her whole life without a blaster) who also naturally has a stronger force potential. And he's supposed to be stomping holes in Rey's ass?

Remember in the first movie all Luke has to do is focus on using the force to become the best X-wing pilot in the galaxy and show up at Vader's house and blow that shit up after spending his whole life only shooting womp rats. Force potential in rookies totally trumps experience all the time in Star Wars

You mean apart form the first time Luke fought his Dad, which was pretty much the definition of, "You got fucking Pwned, Noob"?

And remember that when Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader he'd actually had some recent Jedi training.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Sorry, I enjoyed the movie but that dog won't hunt. Rey was dumped on the planet as a small child. She's had zero training in the Force. She's naturally talented, yes, and has had to fight to survive all her life. But no way she should be able to stand and bang with Kylo. Even if he is injured. It was a major plot hole. I could accept her being more naturally powerful than Kylo in aspects of the Force such as Telekinesis or Telepathy. But even with a major injury, Kylo should have pusher her shit in(obligatory Daisy Ridley anal reference)with a Lightsaber.

Smash Jon Bones in the ribs with a baseball bat, then make him fight a strong but completely untrained opponent. Bones will beat him to a pulp. It won't be pretty to watch, and it will take longer than usual, but the ending will never be in doubt.

I liked the movie and I liked Kylo, but they done fucked up with that fight. Kylo has a long way to go before he even rivals Maul, never mind his grand daddy.

i'm sure others have said it, but this is where fact and fiction need to be separated. NONE of us know Rey's backstory so the bolded is your pure speculation.

i will agree though, if it turns out that she was simply naturally gifted with this and learned on the way then it will be a very unsatisfying explanation.

though given the flashback or the flashforward she experienced while touching Luke's lightsaber, i don think its just a matter of her being 'gifted'. This is speculation on my part.

 

[Bob Gray]

Sorry, I enjoyed the movie but that dog won't hunt. Rey was dumped on the planet as a small child. She's had zero training in the Force. She's naturally talented, yes, and has had to fight to survive all her life. But no way she should be able to stand and bang with Kylo. Even if he is injured. It was a major plot hole. I could accept her being more naturally powerful than Kylo in aspects of the Force such as Telekinesis or Telepathy. But even with a major injury, Kylo should have pusher her shit in(obligatory Daisy Ridley anal reference)with a Lightsaber.

Smash Jon Bones in the ribs with a baseball bat, then make him fight a strong but completely untrained opponent. Bones will beat him to a pulp. It won't be pretty to watch, and it will take longer than usual, but the ending will never be in doubt.

I liked the movie and I liked Kylo, but they done fucked up with that fight. Kylo has a long way to go before he even rivals Maul, never mind his grand daddy.

I'd be willing to bet in the coming sequels will see she's had training. But even so, it doesn't have to work for you but it is given an explanation. I even argued myself lo those many weeks ago that it could have been done better. But it's hardly some gaping plot hole. There explanation for it, it's just whether or not it's enough for you to accept it. Even if it isn't, Christ how long should someone rehash the same shit over and over?

It isn't MMA fighting, it's magical powers. If we judge it by the same standard of MMA fighters then female Jedis/Sith could never beat male Jedis/Sith.

 

[Dizzy]

Doesn't change the fact she was a small child when she was abandoned on the planet, and since that time has had absolutely no training at all. While Ren had been training intensively for years.

If she had previously tapped into the force and is a much stronger user than Ren, it makes perfect sense that she would be able to hang with him while he's wounded.

 

[KnightTemplar]

If she had previously tapped into the force and is a much stronger user than Ren, it makes perfect sense that she would be able to hang with him while he's wounded.

Even if we accept that, it still leads to a huge problem with the next movies. She nearly beat Ren with little or no training. What's she going to be like after a few months of Jedi Camp under Skywalker himself? She'll make Kylo her prison bitch.

Ren was supposed to be Vader 2.0, the ultimate Big Bad. With Vader, there was always a sense of danger. Luke was always stretched to the very limit of his abilities. Indeed, he only beat his father by allowing himself to briefly embrace the Dark Side. And no other character in the OT stood a chance against Vader.

I just don't get that sense of power and danger from Kylo.

 

[shockaholic12]

1


You mean apart form the first time Luke fought his Dad, which was pretty much the definition of, "You got fucking Pwned, Noob"?

And remember that when Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader he'd actually had some recent Jedi training.

What?

When did Luke fight Vader prior to attacking the Death Star in A New Hope? Prior to him evading Vader in a X-wing he'd never flown, prior to Vader's threat being diminished by Solo wrecking him because Vader was too focused on his family member .... see a pattern here? They essentially re-shoot the same scene except with lightsabers and Chewie doing the grazing in TFA

 

[Dizzy]

Even if we accept that, it still leads to a huge problem with the next movies. She nearly beat Ren with little or no training. What's she going to be like after a few months of Jedi Camp under Skywalker himself? She'll make Kylo her prison bitch.

Ren was supposed to be Vader 2.0, the ultimate Big Bad. With Vader, there was always a sense of danger. Luke was always stretched to the very limit of his abilities. Indeed, he only beat his father by allowing himself to briefly embrace the Dark Side. And no other character in the OT stood a chance against Vader.

I just don't get that sense of power and danger from Kylo.

Nah, these are just your expectations of Ren. We see early on he's an emotionally stunted, insecure brat. About as far from Vader 2.0 as you can get.

 

[shockaholic12]

Even if we accept that, it still leads to a huge problem with the next movies. She nearly beat Ren with little or no training. What's she going to be like after a few months of Jedi Camp under Skywalker himself? She'll make Kylo her prison bitch.

Ren was supposed to be Vader 2.0, the ultimate Big Bad. With Vader, there was always a sense of danger. Luke was always stretched to the very limit of his abilities. Indeed, he only beat his father by allowing himself to briefly embrace the Dark Side. And no other character in the OT stood a chance against Vader.

I just don't get that sense of power and danger from Kylo.

Kylo is a kid who hadn't come close to fully embracing the dark side in TFA and the Supreme leader was withholding the advanced darkside training till he murked his old man. Clearly he's going to become stronger now that he has and is going back to be taught the real shit.

 

[KnightTemplar]

What?

When did Luke fight Vader prior to attacking the Death Star in A New Hope? Prior to him evading Vader in a X-wing he'd never flown, prior to Vader's threat being diminished by Solo wrecking him because Vader was too focused on his family member .... see a pattern here? They essentially re-shoot the same scene except with lightsabers and Chewie doing the grazing in TFA

Seriously? I was talking about the beat down Vader gave Luke in Empire. Luke was a rookie with immense natural talent but limited training. Vader wrecked him. It wasn't even close. Even Vader himself says,

"All too easy".

You said that a person who is naturally strong in the Force will usually beat a trained opponent with less natural ability. But in Empire that wasn't the case. Vader methodically breaks Luke down, mind body and soul.

 

[Gregolian]

I enjoyed it for what it is. Will post more including questions I have later.

 

[shockaholic12]

Seriously? I was talking about the beat down Vader gave Luke in Empire. Luke was a rookie with immense natural talent but limited training. Vader wrecked him. It wasn't even close. Even Vader himself says,

"All too easy".

You said that a person who is naturally strong in the Force will usually beat a trained opponent with less natural ability. But in Empire that wasn't the case. Vader methodically breaks Luke down, mind body and soul.

Vader had embraced the dark side at the point, had decades more real war experience, training, and waaaay more lightsaber battles against the best jedi in the galaxy then Ren, who has crossed lightsabers with what jedi compared to the guys Vader had already taken on?

Who says Luke has had more force potential than Vader? Who took out the emperor in the end?

Stop moving the goal posts anyway and explain how Luke and friends besting Vader at the end of A New Hope makes sense but Rey doing the same in TFA doesn't. Remember Vader had way, way more experience with the force then Ren in these situations.

 

[Loiosh]

Even if we accept that, it still leads to a huge problem with the next movies. She nearly beat Ren with little or no training. What's she going to be like after a few months of Jedi Camp under Skywalker himself? She'll make Kylo her prison bitch.

Ren was supposed to be Vader 2.0, the ultimate Big Bad. With Vader, there was always a sense of danger. Luke was always stretched to the very limit of his abilities. Indeed, he only beat his father by allowing himself to briefly embrace the Dark Side. And no other character in the OT stood a chance against Vader.

I just don't get that sense of power and danger from Kylo.

With all due respect, perhaps you lack imagination.

What happened, happened. Didn't like it? That's fine. Think you know why things turned out this way and what they mean? You probably don't. Think what we saw defines what's coming? It probably doesn't.

Ren could be five times as powerful next film, all it takes is the stroke of a pen. You're making a bunch of assumptions that would make for a ridiculously boring story, because they serve the arguments you're making now. Snoke seems to think he has incredible potential, and we've already seen him do things we have never seen before.

I think you're frustrated because Ren wasn't the most powerful Sith we have ever seen right out of the box, and not only that but he was thwarted by someone who as far as we know has had no training.

I really liked the fact he was young in this film and not some templated, omnipotent antagonist. I think if he had really wanted to Kill Finn and Rey he would have done so in seconds, even wounded. I think Adam Driver is an excellent actor and I'm looking forward to the next movie very much.

But that's me. I'm finding a story I like in what we were given and showing a bit of faith in the writers. Maybe they will blow it and the next film will be terrible.

 

[Loiosh]

Isn't one of those chicks Olivia Munn?

No, but the one on the left is really popular.

 

[Bob Gray]

Sorry, I enjoyed the movie but that dog won't hunt. Rey was dumped on the planet as a small child. She's had zero training in the Force. She's naturally talented, yes, and has had to fight to survive all her life. But no way she should be able to stand and bang with Kylo. Even if he is injured. It was a major plot hole. I could accept her being more naturally powerful than Kylo in aspects of the Force such as Telekinesis or Telepathy. But even with a major injury, Kylo should have pusher her shit in(obligatory Daisy Ridley anal reference)with a Lightsaber.

Smash Jon Bones in the ribs with a baseball bat, then make him fight a strong but completely untrained opponent. Bones will beat him to a pulp. It won't be pretty to watch, and it will take longer than usual, but the ending will never be in doubt.

I liked the movie and I liked Kylo, but they done fucked up with that fight. Kylo has a long way to go before he even rivals Maul, never mind his grand daddy.

I'd be willing to bet in the coming sequels will see she's had training. But even so, I myself argued that it could have been done better and I didn't like how easily it all came to her and how much of a beatdown she put on Ren. That said, I'm not still complaining about it after so long. At this point when Episode VIII comes out we'll be sorting through long winded posts about the same shit we were parsing through last month.