Star Wars Megathread

[Deleted member 110072]

I typed out this dialog straight from the movie, from when Luke gave Rey the short version about what happened between him & Kylo. (about an hour into the movie)

"by the time I realized I was no match for the darkness rising in him... it was too late. I went to confront him & he turned on me."

This alone tells us that Luke had been sensing the darkness in Kylo rising before that night & had realized that he might be too far gone to save. After that... Luke went to confront him.

That rainy scene when Luke tells Rey the whole story.

"I saw darkness. I'd sensed it building in him. I'd seen it in moments during his training."

Right here once again, he verifies that he had sensed the darkness prior to this night, & then goes further to say that he saw it playing out physically in his training.

That scene cont:

"When I looked inside it was beyond what I could ever imagine. Snoke had already turned his heart. He who would bring destruction & pain & death and an end to everything that I loved because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. (light saber drawn) It passed like a fleeting shadow." Kylo wakes up.

Aside from these verifications that Luke recognized the darkness building prior to this night.... we also see that he actually went inside Kylo's mind & not only saw more darkness than he could ever imagine, but saw that Snoke had already successfully turned his heart. This was mind reading... not a "feeling." He got Force Visions of everything he loved being destroyed & you can hear the people he loves in the back ground howling in pain. (or however you want to describe the noises they were making... that's the jist of it.)

This is what you said to describe all that:

I hope you can see how massively under-simplified that statement is. Pretty much to the point of inaccuracy since there was so much more to it. There was his obvious feeling, there was the physical things he saw in his training. There was his mind meld/reading. There was the force vision of his loved ones screeming in pain.

Your statement makes it seem like everything was happy & jolly & then one night luke just got a feeling & pulled his saber on Kylo.

You must understand at least my point that if you're going to describe that moment accurately that saying he did it simply "based on a feeling" doesn't come close to describing all that stuff.

Full canon goes further, but if we're doing "Just Movie" then that's where we're at.

"Full Canon" is not what we see on the screen though so to me is totally irrelevant and indeed the fact that it even exists seems like an admission that what we saw wasn't enough to justify his actions.

We have the hero of the OT shown to be acting in a fashion that is in total opposition to his most iconic actions in those films, I think we need significantly more than a couple of lines of dialog about a vision to justify that. The fact we didnt get more I think is itself an indiction there wasnt really much respect for that character, indeed the same as with Han in TFA that he's reverted from the widsom he gained in the OT so the same story can be recycled again.

Its not even the case that the film was full of essential plotting either, the Luke/Rey/Kylo plot is clearly the most interesting thing with the resistance sub plot being the most aweful dreck imaginable full of irrelevant comedy and cheesy action, surely some of that crap could have been jettisoned into the void were it belonged in favour of a more nuanced story around Luke/Kylo with decent flashbacks?

I mean it also extends to Kylo's own motivation doesnt it? never really much more than "more powah", they could have included some example where he fails to save something he loves and feels he needs more power to do so.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

"Full Canon" is not what we see on the screen though so to me is totally irrelevant and indeed the fact that it even exists seems like an admission that what we saw wasn't enough to justify his actions.

It's a shame you feel that way. The full canon universe is an amazing thing way beyond your "small by comparison" gripe about them adding more detail to the movie after the fact. It's endlessly entertaining to keep us with a Star Wars fix between movies.

I'll give you that they are able to add extra descriptions to the movie's novels that came to the forefront on social media after the movie dropped. Fair enough to say that... and some of which I agree should've been in the movie... but it's not all just that. As with any movie based on a novel (flipping the situation to novel first) the novel is almost always more descriptive in detail. You just can't fit all that into a movie. Reversing back to the SW's situation of making the movie first... you still can't fit as much detail into the movie as you can in the novel.

there's no telling what ended up on the cutting room floor. For example... there was a longer segment in Tros (Ep. 9) outlining that Sid was a Clone & how he transferred his mind into his clone. I agree that the film could've used it. As I understand it there's some political thing about it in some cultures & the brass left it out. Luckily we have the novel to explain the details.

We have the hero of the OT shown to be acting in a fashion that is in total opposition to his most iconic actions in those films, I think we need significantly more than a couple of lines of dialog about a vision to justify that. The fact we didnt get more I think is itself an indiction there wasnt really much respect for that character.

This is your take on all that I just showed you? How about you saying "yup, you're right... it is an over-simplification to say that it was just a feeling he got that one night."

That is what I quoted you about & so that is what we are talking about. i just showed you that it is an over-simplification. Would you agree?

Why doesn't anyone acknowledge the things I show? it takes time to present that info to you. I literally found those spots in my copy & dictated them for you. Can't you just appreciate it. We were talking about you simply saying it was just a random feeling one night. Can't you recognize that it was much more than that?

& luke's always been a hot head. He attacked his dad when he said he was going to turn Luke's sister to the dark side. Then Luke came to his senses & calmed down. That's almost exactly what happened in TLJ.

Its not even the case that the film was full of essential plotting either. the Luke/Rey/Kylo plot is clearly the most interesting thing with the resistance sub plot being the most aweful dreck imaginable full of irrelevant comedy and cheesy action, surely some of that crap could have been jettisoned into the void were it belonged in favour of a more neuanced story around Luke/Kylo with decent flashbacks?

Well, I'm sorry they didn't give you more... but it is all there.

1. There was Luke's obvious feeling prior to this night of the dark side rising,
   
2. there was the physical things he saw in his training.
   
3. There was his mind meld/reading where he was shocked by the darkness inside him & realized Snoke had already turned his heart.
   
4. There was the force vision of his loved ones screaming in pain.

I mean it also extends to Kylo's own motivation doesnt it? never really much more than "more powah", they could have included some example where he fails to save something he loves and feels he needs more power to do so.

He's being manipulated by Snoke. Kylo's just a pawn in that regard. There is no need for his own inner thought process. I'll give it to you though that it would've been a nice touch for them to show those things. I just don't think it's necessary enough to make it out to be a plot hole like you seem to be.

This is the same argument that they didn't show Sid turning Anakin dark enough to warrent his immediate change from wanting to arrest Sid to killing kids for sid. However, if you sit back & recognize that Sid's been fucking with his head his whole life... & ramped it up recently... then you get the idea that it's all there. Sure it would've been nice to show it more, but a lifetime of Sid fucking with your head is pretty much enough in itself, then enter his wife dying.

It's similar to the Kylo gripe in that regard. Sure it would've been great to see Snoke actually fucking with his head & see that training luke was talking about... but they say it all & so that's enough.

Acknowledgement of your points = yes it would've been nice if they played more of that out instead of just mentioning it.
My main point = it's all there though

 

[Deleted member 110072]

It's a shame you feel that way. The full canon universe is an amazing thing way beyond your "small by comparison" gripe about them adding more detail to the movie after the fact. It's endlessly entertaining to keep us with a Star Wars fix between movies.

I'll give you that they are able to add extra descriptions to the movie's novels that came to the forefront on social media after the movie dropped. Fair enough to say that... and some of which I agree should've been in the movie... but it's not all just that. As with any movie based on a novel (flipping the situation to novel first) the novel is almost always more descriptive in detail. You just can't fit all that into a movie. Reversing back to the SW's situation of making the movie first... you still can't fit as much detail into the movie as you can in the novel.

there's no telling what ended up on the cutting room floor. For example... there was a longer segment in Tros (Ep. 9) outlining that Sid was a Clone & how he transferred his mind into his clone. I agree that the film could've used it. As I understand it there's some political thing about it in some cultures & the brass left it out. Luckily we have the novel to explain the details.

Honestly it seems that a lot of the purpose of the "full canon" seems to be to enable the kind of argument your making, that details from it can be used to prop up the films, giving ammo to fanboys to defend a product.

As for the point that the film is some kind of "reverse adaptation" well that seems like an arguement invented for this purpose that really doesnt stand up to much thought IMHO. I mean films adapted from books have been criticized for not standing on their own feet for decades so why would the reverse be any different?

The idea the "full canon" is what is "small by comparison" to the films in terms of importance is I thnk hard to argue against, that a film seen by vastly more people is of greater importance than a tie in novel read by comparatively few.

This is your take on all that I just showed you? How about you saying "yup, you're right... it is an over-simplification to say that it was just a feeling he got that one night."

That is what I quoted you about & so that is what we are talking about. i just showed you that it is an over-simplification. Would you agree?

Why doesn't anyone acknowledge the things I show? it takes time to present that info to you. I literally found those spots in my copy & dictated them for you. Can't you just appreciate it. We were talking about you simply saying it was just a random feeling one night. Can't you recognize that it was much more than that?

Well really if you want to get semantic a "feeling" covers a good deal of ground doesn't it? my use of it was more an implication it downplays how well his motivation is gotten across, technically I think you could have had a situation were a motivation with no exact details was used well if it was sold correctly.

Honestly if you asking me why people don't "acknowledge the things you show" is that they simply don't agree with the points you make and indeed that a lot of those points are IMHO strawmen looking to attack anyone who disagrees with you.

luke's always been a hot head. He attacked his dad when he said he was going to turn Luke's sister to the dark side. Then Luke came to his senses & calmed down. That's almost exactly what happened in TLJ.

Luke "was" a hot head in the OT in ANH and ESB, which shows exactly my point that I think the sequels basically "reset" his and Han's characters, removed wisdom they gained though those films so they could replay the drama, something I would say is very disrespectful to the source material.

By the time of ROTJ I wouldnt call Luke a hot head at all, the film repeatidly plays up his coolness under pressure prior to that and for him to react in that fashion to Vader the film spends a good 15 mins or more of the Emperor and Vader goading him plus a very direct threat to his sister. So a good long period of two obviously evil characters goading him, one of them attacking him and threatening his sister against a few lines of narration to justify killing the child of his sister in his sleep who's been left in his care based on a vision of the future.

Its just lazy/clumsy writing for me thats disrespectful to Luke's character, not that he should be faultless(one of the major flaws of Rey) but that he should act in a fashion thats in keeping with the OT and has good motivation.

Well, I'm sorry they didn't give you more... but it is all there.

1. There was Luke's obvious feeling prior to this night of the dark side rising,
   
2. there was the physical things he saw in his training.
   
3. There was his mind meld/reading where he was shocked by the darkness inside him & realized Snoke had already turned his heart.
   
4. There was the force vision of his loved ones screaming in pain.

He's being manipulated by Snoke. Kylo's just a pawn in that regard. There is no need for his own inner thought process. I'll give it to you though that it would've been a nice touch for them to show those things. I just don't think it's necessary enough to make it out to be a plot hole like you seem to be.

This is the same argument that they didn't show Sid turning Anakin dark enough to warrent his immediate change from wanting to arrest Sid to killing kids for sid. However, if you sit back & recognize that Sid's been fucking with his head his whole life... & ramped it up recently... then you get the idea that it's all there. Sure it would've been nice to show it more, but a lifetime of Sid fucking with your head is pretty much enough in itself, then enter his wife dying.

It's similar to the Kylo gripe in that regard. Sure it would've been great to see Snoke actually fucking with his head & see that training luke was talking about... but they say it all & so that's enough.

Acknowledgement of your points = yes it would've been nice if they played more of that out instead of just mentioning it.
My main point = it's all there though

You can make a list of whats mentioned but that doesnt change that ultimately your talking about a few lines of dialog gotten across very quickly to justify killing a child in his sleep based on a vision. It just seems like your opinion of a film is based more on whether it can be mined for "lore" based arguments on the net rather than looking at whether its actually successful in what it attempts, I'm not going to engage you in that kind of arguement.

The idea that "There is no need for his own inner thought process" of Ben seems very strange to me, I mean one of the key points of the script is that Snoke is a bit of a red herring and the focus is very clearly on Kylo. To have the motivation for Ben's turn to the darkside seems of great importance to me in that situation and it would as I mention also give a lot of potential to make Luke' sturning against him more effective.

Honestly I don't think Anakins turn in ROTS was handled that effectively, partly because the character and his romance with Padme was IMHO poorly sold prior to that but at least a decent amount of time was spent on it. Part of what makes TLJ frustrating for me is that its the only film in the ST that did show serious potential, parts of the Luke/Kylo/Rey plot are I think effective and the Kylo character is gotten across more sucessfully than Anakin in large part due to Driver being a vastly better actor. Instead we have parts of that plot badly undersold IMHO then the plot itself backed away with as Rey simply rejected Kylo and the two become standard hero/villian roles whilst the resistance plot is simply terrible.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Alright, let’s re-write the sequels right here in this thread. EU cannon can be used but can’t be copied:

GO

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Well really if you want to get semantic a "feeling" covers a good deal of ground doesn't it?

Hold up. I'm going to get to the rest of your post, but I want to really just keep this simple here.

One question.

Do you consider Luke observing Kylo in training... fighting with overt aggression... to be a feeling he had?

 

[Thrawn33]

Alright, let’s re-write the sequels right here in this thread. EU cannon can be used but can’t be copied:

GO

Thrawn returns and conquers shit, limiting collateral damage and even getting worlds to peacefully join him because he's more efficient as a benevolent dictator than the overly beaurocratic New Republic. The heroes finally captures him.

Extra galactic beings appear at the end of the third movie with intent to wreck shit and it's revealed that Thrawn wasn't there to pave the way for them but to stop them.

Cue the next series...After getting their asses handed to them the heroes break Thrawn out of space prison to lead a strikeforce against the invaders. Thrawn takes a ship on a suicide mission to end the threat, with his last words being

"But it was so artistically done"

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Thrawn returns and conquers shit, limiting collateral damage and even getting worlds to peacefully join him because he's more efficient as a benevolent dictator than the overly beaurocratic New Republic. The heroes finally captures him.

Extra galactic beings appear at the end of the third movie with intent to wreck shit and it's revealed that Thrawn wasn't there to pave the way for them but to stop them.

Cue the next series...After getting their asses handed to them the heroes break Thrawn out of space prison to lead a strikeforce against the invaders. Thrawn takes a ship on a suicide mission to end the threat, with his last words being

"But it was so artistically done"

“Also we establish early in the first movie that Thrawns dick is *proportionally* the biggest in the galaxy.”

 

[Thrawn33]

“Also we establish early in the first movie that Thrawns dick is *proportionally* the biggest in the galaxy.”

I wasn't going that route but...

I would borrow heavily from Heir to the Empire and tweak a few things notably:

Takes place 20 years after Endor.

If in our fanfic world Carrie Fisher is still alive, then Leia's alive as president of the New Republic dealing with a senate that's all kinds of inept and corrupt.

If Carrie Fisher is dead then so is Leia, she died retaking Coruscant a few years after Endor..but not before....

Having twins (boy and girl) who now train at Uncle Luke's Jedi Academy and will become the main characters.

Han is a reluctant celebrity war hero who, now that the kids are away at Jedi college decides he wants back in the Smuggler/Fringe life. This introduces him to Talon Karrde...

I would introduce Mara Jade as Thrawn's 2nd in command (she would be roughly Luke's age, maybe slightly younger). She would still be a former Emperor's Hand but with a twist. She's force sensitive but in a negative fashion, she subconsciously repels it, like a human ysimilari (sp). This and her Beskar sword keeps Luke and Company from ending the threat early. I'd turn her good and get her with Luke (leading to Thrawn's capture) who helps her do away with the negative force bubble.

Ditch the insane dark Jedi clone.

Keep the cloning, the Noghri, and a lost fleet of warships waiting to be claimed (the Katana fleet in the books)

Oh and Thrawn starts with a Super Star Destroyer and has been infiltrating his folks into the New Republic for the last 10 years (which allows him to take so much so quickly)

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Alright, let’s re-write the sequels right here in this thread. EU cannon can be used but can’t be copied:

GO

It's perfect just the way it is.

That said... for those who are upset about Not my Luke I say leave everything the same minus a couple tweeks to TLJ since that's what set everyone off. Lets have Snoke roll in there one day & kill all the trainees & take Kylo & a few others.

We'll keep Luke isolated... but he only does so because he seez how creating a Jedi academy strengthened the dark side as well. (ie... "Darkness rises & the light to meet it" reversed.) so he closes his school strategically & shuts himself off from the force in order to stunt the dark side.

Knowing that him shutting off from the force will create a variance in the force that will create a mammoth energy in one of the already born light side force users... Rey Kenobi Palpatine Grogu Skywalker is that vessel. Obi had a daughter with Satine Kryze... who hooked up with Sid's son & had a kid. Sid's son was secretly grafted with DNA from himself, Grogu & Luke... & so that makes him part Grogu & Skywalker. (The green penis being the only real Grogu anomaly that showed through. )


So Rey Kenobi Palpatine Grogu Skywalker receives this incredible influx of light side energy... & the rest of the movie plays out exactly like it did, except that Luke trains the fuck out of her when she visits & TLJ starts off with Luke asking her what took her so long to get there.

He denies participation in the fight due to the fact that if he turned on the force in him... that it would limit her power. Mara Jade's got the best pussy in the galaxy, per how the galaxy'z biggest stud landed it. he also turns the force on a bit here & there in very creative wayz in that regard too if you know what I mean... but not enough to effect the variance in the force. (I mean except for that one night.)

So having a good thing going on with her & their 3 kids is rumored to be a part of the equation, but to avoid a sharp & uncomfortable eye squinting gaze from Mara Jade, most people go with the bit about the force thingy.

This makes it even sadder when Luke gives his life to save the last of the rebels. As Mara Jade holds him in her arms & the 3 kids gather around all of them telling Luke how much they love him... Luke replies, "I know." & then passes away.

Luke disappears & seez teh 2 sons of his home planet & a tear is shed by all.

Then Mara Jade reaches into the Ether & yanks force ghost Luke back into Ache-To saying not so fast mother fucker. Go down there & get us some fucking blue milk & catch us some diner. It better for god damned sure not be fucking porg again either. Kidz! quit fucking around your dad's had a hard day. Now go make the table up & get a fire started.

There we go, same movie without "Not my Luke." Blue Milk Cow & all.

Spoiler

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Look at that wall of text no one is going to read

 

[Aegon Spengler]

It's perfect just the way it is.

That said... for those who are upset about Not my Luke I say leave everything the same minus a couple tweeks to TLJ since that's what set everyone off. Lets have Snoke roll in there one day & kill all the trainees & take Kylo & a few others.

We'll keep Luke isolated... but he only does so because he seez how creating a Jedi academy strengthened the dark side as well. (ie... "Darkness rises & the light to meet it" reversed.) so he closes his school strategically & shuts himself off from the force in order to stunt the dark side.

Knowing that him shutting off from the force will create a variance in the force that will create a mammoth energy in one of the already born light side force users... Rey Kenobi Palpatine Grogu Skywalker is that vessel. Obi had a daughter with Satine Kryze... who hooked up with Sid's son & had a kid. Sid's son was secretly grafted with DNA from himself, Grogu & Luke... & so that makes him part Grogu & Skywalker. (The green penis being the only real Grogu anomaly that showed through. )


So Rey Kenobi Palpatine Grogu Skywalker receives this incredible influx of light side energy... & the rest of the movie plays out exactly like it did, except that Luke trains the fuck out of her when she visits & TLJ starts off with Luke asking her what took her so long to get there.

He denies participation in the fight due to the fact that if he turned on the force in him... that it would limit her power. Mara Jade's got the best pussy in the galaxy, per how the galaxy'z biggest stud landed it. he also turns the force on a bit here & there in very creative wayz in that regard too if you know what I mean... but not enough to effect the variance in the force. (I mean except for that one night.)

So having a good thing going on with her & their 3 kids is rumored to be a part of the equation, but to avoid a sharp & uncomfortable eye squinting gaze from Mara Jade, most people go with the bit about the force thingy.

This makes it even sadder when Luke gives his life to save the last of the rebels. As Mara Jade holds him in her arms & the 3 kids gather around all of them telling Luke how much they love him... Luke replies, "I know." & then passes away.

Luke disappears & seez teh 2 sons of his home planet & a tear is shed by all.

Then Mara Jade reaches into the Ether & yanks force ghost Luke back into Ache-To saying not so fast mother fucker. Go down there & get us some fucking blue milk & catch us some diner. It better for god damned sure not be fucking porg again either. Kidz! quit fucking around your dad's had a hard day. Now go make the table up & get a fire started.

There we go, same movie without "Not my Luke." Blue Milk Cow & all.

Spoiler

Better than what we got, I’ll say that

 

[Crawler89]

havnt thought too much about it, but I'd either have it diverge after the force awkens or re-write the whole thing.

Do the force awakens if you want, but at the end, we find Luke basically being like Yoda. You can still do the Ren killed his jedis and things...but make it so he kills Grogu, or something of the sort. Or, have Luke hidden away training Grogu - as Grogu is the only one capable and wasnt strong enough yet to beat the new order. Instead of Snoke being a clone, he is the real big bad, and ends up being either plagasius or something from the unknown regions. Rey and Ren can still be the didate shit if you want, but give it a better story instead of shes rey palpatine. Make her Rey Kenobi or something.

Or go the Thrawn route like Thrawn boy above stated, that basically Thrawn returns from the unknown regions and starts taking over planets/sectors until captured and he tries to warn them he was doing it to stop an incoming threat. Then you can do the vohng or whatever for the second and third

 

[Crawler89]

One of the rumors for Ashoka show is that its going to have time travel/divergence and basically retcon the sequals

lololololololololol

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

One of the rumors for Ashoka show is that its going to have time travel/divergence and basically retcon the sequals

lololololololololol

I called this earlier

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

if it's true

 

[Thrawn33]

One of the rumors for Ashoka show is that its going to have time travel/divergence and basically retcon the sequals

lololololololololol

F&F Bless

 

[deviake]

One of the rumors for Ashoka show is that its going to have time travel/divergence and basically retcon the sequals

lololololololololol

Lol, I mean, even if all they care for is money this is the correct move

 

[Aegon Spengler]

One of the rumors for Ashoka show is that its going to have time travel/divergence and basically retcon the sequals

lololololololololol

Ashoka show symbol:

Time Travel rebels ep:

 

[One MMA Fan]

It's perfect just the way it is.

That said... for those who are upset about Not my Luke I say leave everything the same minus a couple tweeks to TLJ since that's what set everyone off. Lets have Snoke roll in there one day & kill all the trainees & take Kylo & a few others.

We'll keep Luke isolated... but he only does so because he seez how creating a Jedi academy strengthened the dark side as well. (ie... "Darkness rises & the light to meet it" reversed.) so he closes his school strategically & shuts himself off from the force in order to stunt the dark side.

Knowing that him shutting off from the force will create a variance in the force that will create a mammoth energy in one of the already born light side force users... Rey Kenobi Palpatine Grogu Skywalker is that vessel. Obi had a daughter with Satine Kryze... who hooked up with Sid's son & had a kid. Sid's son was secretly grafted with DNA from himself, Grogu & Luke... & so that makes him part Grogu & Skywalker. (The green penis being the only real Grogu anomaly that showed through. )


So Rey Kenobi Palpatine Grogu Skywalker receives this incredible influx of light side energy... & the rest of the movie plays out exactly like it did, except that Luke trains the fuck out of her when she visits & TLJ starts off with Luke asking her what took her so long to get there.

He denies participation in the fight due to the fact that if he turned on the force in him... that it would limit her power. Mara Jade's got the best pussy in the galaxy, per how the galaxy'z biggest stud landed it. he also turns the force on a bit here & there in very creative wayz in that regard too if you know what I mean... but not enough to effect the variance in the force. (I mean except for that one night.)

So having a good thing going on with her & their 3 kids is rumored to be a part of the equation, but to avoid a sharp & uncomfortable eye squinting gaze from Mara Jade, most people go with the bit about the force thingy.

This makes it even sadder when Luke gives his life to save the last of the rebels. As Mara Jade holds him in her arms & the 3 kids gather around all of them telling Luke how much they love him... Luke replies, "I know." & then passes away.

Luke disappears & seez teh 2 sons of his home planet & a tear is shed by all.

Then Mara Jade reaches into the Ether & yanks force ghost Luke back into Ache-To saying not so fast mother fucker. Go down there & get us some fucking blue milk & catch us some diner. It better for god damned sure not be fucking porg again either. Kidz! quit fucking around your dad's had a hard day. Now go make the table up & get a fire started.

There we go, same movie without "Not my Luke." Blue Milk Cow & all.

Spoiler

Haha nice story you got there. Apply to Disney maybe you are LucasFilm Story Group material.

Look at that wall of text no one is going to read

I've read it.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Hold up. I'm going to get to the rest of your post, but I want to really just keep this simple here.

One question.

Do you consider Luke observing Kylo in training... fighting with overt aggression... to be a feeling he had?

Yet what you actually respond with is again picking out a semantic arguement, that doesnt really go against what I said that your posting comes across as very passive aggressive and intent on attacking the poster not the arguement.

Really though yes I think "Luke watched Kylo train and got a feeling about him" would be an acceptable description. As I said though part of why I used "feeling" was the implication that Luke's motivation is undersold which really is the arguement of importance, its potentially describing the same thing but making it sound less credable inline with my view of the film.

Luke in ROTJ is goaded for a prolonged period by two Sith who have committed mass genocide infront of the Alliance being wiped out, attacked by one of them and then has his sister threatened to get him to give in to anger.

Luke in TLJ who should be even wiser having come though that considered murdering a child who's been left in his care who's done nothing wrong yet in his sleep based on a few lines about having had visions/feelings about him turning to the Darkside and committing future evil acts.

Again Luke having faults shouldn't be an issue, thats the foundation of a good character story but those faults should be well built up and not go against what we know from the OT. I think it would have been perfectly possible to show us more of what happened with Ben, to show Luke's actions being less extreme and better built up but still carrying a sense of failure plus again the idea that he has gained something in his retreat in moving past simpler good/evil feeling based on his experience with Ben.

Its especially galling the film didnt do this when its "B-plot" is so incredibly weak and spends so much time on irrelvant story points and set pieces. That plot could/should have been so much simpler, a Zulu style "good guys under seige" story without all the asides.

The Holdo plot especially for me is the most distasteful thing in SW history, if you wanted evidence that "establishment liberal" rather than genuinely progressive political thinking was involved in these films this is pretty clear for me. It doesnt even bother to actually sell the idea Poe's morality/thinking is questionable, simply that his fault is lack of obedience to authority that "knows better". That gender alone is viewed as jusifctaion for this as well makes it pretty hard to avoid the feeling its a rather simplistic "Vice Admiral Hilrary vs the Bernie bros in space" metaphor.