SRL vs Mayweather Sr was a brutal fight

[cottagecheesefan]

"bigger and stronger doesn't matter in ATG rankings. And the rest is debatable."

I literally stated it H2H, so try reading my posts before interjecting yourself, dipshit.

I agree with you Cotto isnt as good as Cotto. But he's an ATG. Floyd is s better caliber of ATG, but he aint close to GOAT status.

Where did you state h2h? You responded to my first post, bolding the p4p stuff, saying

absofuckinglutely not

Then, you responded to me talking about SRL being rated higher than Floyd all time, which I had responded to The Greatest about, not you.

But anyways, you responded to the all time rating post with.

Better resume, bigger, stronger, faster, just as strong fight IQ and more well rounded fighter.

Floyd is good, an ATG but he isn't nearly one of the GOAT's.

And then you say

I don't think SRL is the GOAT of his weight class or in general, but you could argue it. You can't make a good argument for Floyd.

See, you are NOT talking about H2H match ups, you are talking about ATG and GOAT ratings.


Please show me where you said and clarified H2H match up. prior to me calling you out on your shit logic.

 

[Bamboozled]

Where did you state h2h? You responded to my first post, bolding the p4p stuff, saying



Then, you responded to me talking about SRL being rated higher than Floyd all time, which I had responded to The Greatest about, not you.

But anyways, you responded to the all time rating post with.



And then you say



See, you are NOT talking about H2H match ups, you are talking about ATG and GOAT ratings.


Please show me where you said and clarified H2H match up. prior to me calling you out on your shit logic.

I deleted my post and re-did it, but I see you're on top of an internet argument.

I didn't edit my post before I logged off last night. I didn't save it. It was my fault.

There is no criteria in which you can put Floyd above SRL. That "0" bullshit means nothing. He has a worse resume, but maybe more names. You could argue marketing and access is why he has those too. Quantity never beats quality when you're beating multiple greats. When they fought matters too, Floyd fought over the hill guys who are the best on his resume.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I’ll respond to my part. Not sure what the other discussion is about

Floyd does have more top ten wins i suppose. But in terms of strength of resume, SRL is better. What is Floyds best win even? Ricky Hatton at WW who had just squeaked by Luis Collazo?

I guess if you just want to do names Oscar, Manny or Shane. But were they not all pretty faded ( really faded in oscar and shanes case)?

I actually think floyd is in the top 15-20 p4p all time. I just dont think his resume is better than Rays.

And i am not sure what you are referring to with the ill advised late fight stuff?

well, this is all highly subjective stuff. Just like people can say Hagler was faded and had just gone life and death with Mugabe.

As for the ill advised late fight, I am just talking about how you are faulting fighters for retiring undefeated. Why does that matter, when they are already fighting lots of top 10 fighters, by your own admission, more than someone like SRL. Like, do you give SRL a pass for losing to Comacho or something?

It is pretty subjective, I think they are about equal, with my liking Floyd's a bit more.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I deleted my post and re-did it, but I see you're on top of an internet argument.

I didn't edit my post before I logged off last night. I didn't save it. It was my fault.

yea, and argument you were being a total jackass about and saying I have disability. Now you are like "oh.. i forgot to edit my posts", when I highlight how stupid you are

What a fucking bitch

 

[Bamboozled]

yea, and argument you were being a total jackass about and saying I have disability. Now you are like "oh.. i forgot to edit my posts", when I highlight how stupid you are

What a fucking bitch

Not my fault you're soft and disabled.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Not my fault you're soft and disabled.

anyone can come see these exchanges of posts and see you are a fucking idiot.

 

[Bamboozled]

anyone can come see these exchanges of posts and see you are a fucking idiot.

I mean I admitted where I screwed up and you're still a whiny cunt. Don't get in a car wreck, I'd miss your posts lmao

Edit: You're probably butthurt, I'm saying I enjoy you being a whiny cunt. If its all youre going to bring don't change.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

well, this is all highly subjective stuff. Just like people can say Hagler was faded and had just gone life and death with Mugabe.

As for the ill advised late fight, I am just talking about how you are faulting fighters for retiring undefeated. Why does that matter, when they are already fighting lots of top 10 fighters, by your own admission, more than someone like SRL. Like, do you give SRL a pass for losing to Comacho or something?

It is pretty subjective, I think they are about equal, with my liking Floyd's a bit more.

Oh i see. My point with the undefeated stuff is that if you fight enough good fighters in their primes you will lose.

When i see a resume like Floyds or Calzaghe’s you can see that adage is true. Simply not enough great fighters in their prines that either fought

And yes Marvin was faded. Was he shot or totally faded at that point? I actually tend to think no, Ray’s style was always gonna be wrong for him. But anyways

To me, Floyd is probably (and this is not a diss just my opinion) the most carefully protected fighter I have ever seen in my life

Credit to him. He seems to understand that if he retires undefeated the casuals will think he is the GOAT, but I think most in boxing know that is foolish.

Yeah he never lost. But what is his resume? Honestly? 3 faded legends, Ricky Hatton at welterweight? I guess the marquez win would be the best? I don’t even know tbh

 

[Absolut]

He's usually picked as the good among the 4 kings, but he could be just as bad and ugly as the 3 other mofos.

Yup. Often overlooked how mean he was, cause he was so marketable.

Look at surly Mark McGwire in Oakland compared to him playing the lovable BigMac in St. Louis. Amazing what a marketing theme can do for you!

 

[UnicornNinjas]

Floyd does have more top ten wins i suppose. But in terms of strength of resume, SRL is better. What is Floyds best win even? Ricky Hatton at WW who had just squeaked by Luis Collazo?

I guess if you just want to do names Oscar, Manny or Shane. But were they not all pretty faded ( really faded in oscar and shanes case)?

I actually think floyd is in the top 15-20 p4p all time. I just dont think his resume is better than Rays.

And i am not sure what you are referring to with the ill advised late fight stuff?

Ray's career had higher peaks but also lower valleys; he beat more luminaries (Hearns, Duran, Hagler) but apart from that it's a lot of B- and C level guys. Floyd's career is more consistently B+/A- level guys but doesn't have the same depth of wins over ATG caliber fighters. I don't think it's fair to pick a "best win" from his resume at 147, his most impressive work context wise is probably his shutout over Corrales or taking the belt off of Hernandez at 21.

Re: Oscar and Shane, I genuinely believe they avoided him in the early 2000s. He called out both guys from the time he was at 135 (possibly even as low as 130) and offered to go up in weight to pursue the fights. Making a fight with Oscar was always going to be an unlikely prospect since he was already at 147 when Floyd was still campaigning at 130 but Shane straight up responded to his call out by saying his tooth hurt.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Oh i see. My point with the undefeated stuff is that if you fight enough good fighters in their primes you will lose.

When i see a resume like Floyds or Calzaghe’s you can see that adage is true. Simply not enough great fighters in their prines that either fought

And yes Marvin was faded. Was he shot or totally faded at that point? I actually tend to think no, Ray’s style was always gonna be wrong for him. But anyways

To me, Floyd is probably (and this is not a diss just my opinion) the most carefully protected fighter I have ever seen in my life

Credit to him. He seems to understand that if he retires undefeated the casuals will think he is the GOAT, but I think most in boxing know that is foolish.

Yeah he never lost. But what is his resume? Honestly? 3 faded legends, Ricky Hatton at welterweight? I guess the marquez win would be the best? I don’t even know tbh

I can agree with Calzaghe (whom I am a big fan of).

But look at this stat, in terms of resume.

Mayweather has a record of 26 consecutive wins in world title fights(10 by KO), 23 wins (9 KOs) in lineal title fights, 24 wins (7 KOs) against former or current world titlists, 12 wins (3 KOs) against former or current lineal champions

Leonard has a record of 10-2-1 (8 KOs) in world title fights.Leonard has a record of 7-3-1 (5 KOs) against former world champions:

I mean, you say Mosley was faded, but Mosley looked much better Margarito, and also in loss to Cotto, than Hagler did against Mugabe.

And after Hearns (who SHOULD also have a win over SRL)
Duran (has a win over SRL)
Hagler (faded)
Benitez...
then who are his next best wins? I guess Lalonde is OK.. then it really falls off

Floyd :
Hernandez (was champ)
Manfredy (champ and hadn't lost since 3rd pro fight)
Corrales (undefeat champ, went on to be 135 champ)
Hatton (undef champ)
Mosley (champ had just destroyed Margarito)
Baldomir (actual champ and hadnt lost in like 20 fights)
Cotto (was titlist and had just destroyed Margarito in the rematch went on to become 160lb champ)
The Ghost (had just won the title, and had not lost in a while)
Oscar
Pac (still active and in world title fights)
Canelo
Maidana (champion who had just destroyed multidivison champ Broner)
McGreggor (MMA GOAT)

I think a lot of this gets over looked, maybe not great, but really good wins. Even Floyd Sr was 15-1 when SRL fought him, he wasn't a champion or anything, and never became one

SRL fought no one of significance until Benitez, that is why Cosell comments at the end, that maybe people won't call him a "hype" any more. Then he loses to Duran two fights later, and proceeds to go 9-2-1 the rest of his career, and the draw should have been a loss to Hearns. And some of those guys like Howard and Green are no bodies who had recently been stopped, mixed in with long lay offs.

If anything, SRL looks more protected, plus has actual losses

SRL doesn't even have wins that are comparable to people like Berto, Castillo, JMM, Ortiz, etc, cause those are all titlists and champs. They are all a LOT better than like Floyd Sr, Danny Boy Green, etc.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I can agree with Calzaghe (whom I am a big fan of).

But look at this stat, in terms of resume.

Mayweather has a record of 26 consecutive wins in world title fights(10 by KO), 23 wins (9 KOs) in lineal title fights, 24 wins (7 KOs) against former or current world titlists, 12 wins (3 KOs) against former or current lineal champions

Leonard has a record of 10-2-1 (8 KOs) in world title fights.Leonard has a record of 7-3-1 (5 KOs) against former world champions:

I mean, you say Mosley was faded, but Mosley looked much better Margarito, and also in loss to Cotto, than Hagler did against Mugabe.

And after Hearns (who SHOULD also have a win over SRL)
Duran (has a win over SRL)
Hagler (faded)
Benitez...

then who are his next best wins?

Floyd :
Hernandez (was champ)
Manfredy (champ and hadn't lost since 3rd pro fight)
Corrales (undefeat champ, went on to be 135 champ)
Mosley (champ had just destroyed Margarito)
Baldomir (actual champ and hadnt lost in like 20 fights)
Cotto (was titlist and had just destroyed Margarito in the rematch went on to become 160lb champ)
The Ghost (had just won the title, and had not lost in a while)
Oscar
Pac (still active and in world title fights)
Canelo
Maidana (champion who had just destroyed multidivison champ Broner)
McGreggor (MMA GOAT)

I think a lot of this gets over looked, maybe not great, but really good wins. Even Floyd Sr was 15-1 when SRL fought him, he wasn't a champion or anything, and never became one

SRL fought no one of significance until Benitez, that is why Cosell comments at the end, that maybe people won't call him a "hype" any more. Then he loses to Duran two fights later, and proceeds to go 9-2-1 the rest of his career, and the draw should have been a loss to Hearns. And some of those guys like Howard and Green are no bodies who had recently been stopped, mixed in with long lay offs.

If anything, SRL looks more protected, plus has actual losses

Well let me first address the title thing. In Leonard’s era there were 2 titles

In Floyds there were 5 if you include the ring. So in terms of fighting more title holders that means little to me. Particularly when guys like Robert Guerrero were world champions etc. when floyd fought them

Next lets discuss Mosley. Was Mosley at his best in 2010 or did he fight a guy tailor made for him in Margs?

I am going to also disagree with the notion that Marvin was totally shot. He looked shot against Ray because Ray boxed him instead of standing in front of him. And Mugabi was a good fighter too. And Marvin still got hin

Also when i see that list of guys floyd fought. What did robert guerrero ever do? Mcgregor???? Hernandez i get died tragically but his career highlight is squeaking by a 96 yr old Azumah nelson.

Then you include guys like Oscar. Ok yes Oscar was a great fighter. Hell a 1999 version of Oscar De La Hoya has to be up there in terms of most talented ever. But in 2007? Was he not totally different? Flat footed. Slower. Etc.

Kalule and Lalonde were pretty good also just for the record for SUgar ray

But despite this like i said above i concede that floyd had more top ten wins

I do believe SRL has a better quality resume
His win over Hearns was spectacular. His win over Benetiz was spectacular. Yeah he lost to Duran (barely) fighting Durans fight then completely dominated him in the rematch

Again I don’t believe Marvin was as shot as what is conventional wisdom but thats just imo

I will say just for the sake of this discussion, we are obviously nitpicking. Both of these guys are great.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Well let me first address the title thing. In Leonard’s era there were 2 titles

In Floyds there were 5 if you include the ring. So in terms of fighting more title holders that means little to me. Particularly when guys like Robert Guerrero were world champions etc. when floyd fought them

Next lets discuss Mosley. Was Mosley at his best in 2010 or did he fight a guy tailor made for him in Margs?

I am going to also disagree with the notion that Marvin was totally shot. He looked shot against Ray because Ray boxed him instead of standing in front of him. And Mugabi was a good fighter too. And Marvin still got hin

Also when i see that list of guys floyd fought. What did robert guerrero ever do? Mcgregor???? Hernandez i get died tragically but his career highlight is squeaking by a 96 yr old Azumah nelson.

Then you include guys like Oscar. Ok yes Oscar was a great fighter. Hell a 1999 version of Oscar De La Hoya has to be up there in terms of most talented ever. But in 2007? Was he not totally different? Flat footed. Slower. Etc.

Kalule and Lalonde were pretty good also just for the record for SUgar ray

But despite this like i said above i concede that floyd had more top ten wins

I do believe SRL has a better quality resume
His win over Hearns was spectacular. His win over Benetiz was spectacular. Yeah he lost to Duran (barely) fighting Durans fight then completely dominated him in the rematch

Again I don’t believe Marvin was as shot as what is conventional wisdom but thats just imo

I will say just for the sake of this discussion, we are obviously nitpicking. Both of these guys are great.

I agree both are great, I feel they are the 2 best I have watched. And I do feel SRL beats him in a fantasy match, since he is a bit naturally bigger. But that other guy was saying it isn't even close, and you agreed that you don't understand it either. At least now we agree we are just nit picking and playing favorites, so it is kind of close lol

SRL has great wins, and I feel the Benitez and the Hearns wins are better than anything of Floyds... but then the rest of Floyd's is either comparable (IMO), and then he has a much deeper resume that swamps the rest of SRL's.

I mean, the Duran win is good, tho weird and only was 3 rounds.. but the LOSS right before is more telling and shows people could get him off his game plan. Plus he has other losses. That never happened with Floyd, against all these proven fighters and styles.

A lot of this is all subjective. But a comment about Floyd's resume is that he has a lot of wins you can't even compare SRL with. Like Victor Ortiz had the whole Golden Boy hype train, top trainers, nutritionist. Same with Berto, who is an Olympian, with the Haymon war wagon behind him. It is a different era, just like with the number of belts. Floyd has a LOT of wins over champions and former champions like them.

I mean, people look at SRL highlight and see a brutal fight with Floyd Sr, but Floyd Sr is a crack dealer. Danny Boy Green has a catchy name, how did he get a title shot, he had just been KOed in a European title bout lol. He has a lot of great highlights, looking flashy against people like that. But he also doesn't have a performance like Floyd vs Chico Corales or Canelo. I mean, Floyd people accomplished former champs like Gatti WAY worse than SRL did a crack dealer. Even at the time Gatti was a titlist, and had been on a tear (Ward x 2, Branco, Leija, Dorin). Floyd came in a completely destroyed him.

Floyd's Gatti win is just as good as Kalule and Lalonde, if not better. Lalonde won a vacant title vs a no one, defended once vs a no one and had never beaten anyone of note. Gatti won a vacant title and defended it twice vs better fighters than Lalonde did, and was long proven a good fighter. SRL and Floyd both securing the title in their 3rd weight class with those wins. Which was the end of SRLs career pretty much, and Floyd's was only just warming up.