Sport BJJ blackbelt vs strong untrained dude who can punch, in a fight with strikes. Who takes it?

[TheMaster]

It is known that many BJJ blackbelts get their rank without a single strike being thrown in all their training. Far from the self defence origins of GJJ, we have modern sport BJJ.
So hypothetically how would this go down in a fight with strikes? Lets say the untrained dude has a 25 Ibs weight advantage, and had no MA training but is tough and can throw a good punch, maybe played a bit of football or baseball even. BJJ blackbelt is a pure sport BJJ guy and not into mma, does not have a good natural punch either.

So did BJJ as the 'self defence system' hold up 25 years since the BJJ marketing strategy (UFC 1) first came on the scene?

People go on and on that grappling evolved but it may be 'pure grappling' evolved but it actually became less applicable to fighting than in the earlier days.
How much is pure sport BJJ translateable to fighting nowadays, especially compared to old school GJJ?

 

[Kinosis]

Watch that Eddie Bravo event where you can throw slaps. Many sport BJJ guys turtle up from them. One guy ate so many from mount without even attempting to escape, because he froze up for a long time, the fight got stopped....from slaps.

 

[rmongler]

So in a fight between two guys who can punch, would you bet on the guy who also has training in some combat sport, or the guy who has no training in any combat sport?

Hmmm... tough choice...

 

[DatCutman]

So if a fight between two guys who can punch, would you bet on the guy who also has training in a combat sport, or the guy who has no training in any combat sport?

Hmmm... tough choice...

Yea but one guy is good at taking punches. Against a non puncher.

 

[Kingbedlam]

 

[MaxMMA]

It just depends on the fighters. I know technical sport bjj guys that are tough as nails. I also know technical sport bjj guys that would fold from slaps like an above poster mentioned.

 

[Cash Bill 52]

I always bring a bazooka. So, I always win.

 

[lechien]

How much is pure sport BJJ translateable to fighting nowadays, especially compared to old school GJJ?

No freaking idea to be honest.
I never train in GJJ....only did BJJ.

What is the difference?
What type of training do they offer?

 

[kenetics]

No freaking idea to be honest.
I never train in GJJ....only did BJJ.

What is the difference?
What type of training do they offer?

I train gjj and sport. Both are just as important to know.

 

[empsim]

Watch that Eddie Bravo event where you can throw slaps. Many sport BJJ guys turtle up from them. One guy ate so many from mount without even attempting to escape, because he froze up for a long time, the fight got stopped....from slaps.

thats something totally different

you think an untrained guy getting ragdolled by a bjj blackbelt would be able to land a decent punch or slap on the ground?

 

[Kingbedlam]

No freaking idea to be honest.
I never train in GJJ....only did BJJ.

What is the difference?
What type of training do they offer?

I went to a Relson Gracie Gjj school. They did fundamentals (basic Bjj, takedowns, and self defense), advanced class, and competition classes in gi and no-gi based on whatever the upcoming tournament was.

 

[Quebec Nick]

thats something totally different

you think an untrained guy getting ragdolled by a bjj blackbelt would be able to land a decent punch or slap on the ground?

A good blow can KO anyone GJJ or not. Just one punch behind the ear and you're in deep shit. Most guys that never did anykind of boxing / kickboxing, can throw a overhand right, it's the most natural punch, it won't be technical but if it lands and don't see it coming it's dangerous to anyone. In street fights, sucker punches are pretty much what start everything.

If it doesn't end on the first blows, any good BJJ guy can manage to get on top fairly quickly and nullify most of the threath. By pulling guard or by getting the takedown, if you can start to pummel for underhooks or whizzers the guy with no knowledge of grappling will be mounted or back taken very early.

 

[Quebec Nick]

I went to a Relson Gracie Gjj school. They did fundamentals (basic Bjj, takedowns, and self defense), advanced class, and competition classes in gi and no-gi based on whatever the upcoming tournament was.

I go to a sport BJJ school and we also do basic BJJ and takedowns. Sometimes when I ear people say that sport BJJ is only guard pulling and worm guards it makes me mad. We all have the same basics, we all do takedowns, we all do gi and no gi. There's just some schools that don't waste time with the self defense that Rickson wants us to do.

Having done some self defense classes in kung fu, I don't really believe in the ''remember the right reaction for each situation''

The beauty of BJJ and grappling is that we can do a lot of live sparring without injuring ourself too much, so we can make every techniques natural and instinctive. Self defense classes are as if you binge studied for an exam in 2 months, there'S no way that you will remember it when you need it.

 

[Nik123]

I reckon if the bigger untrained guy does not land a lucky punch, he has little chance. He will likely get winded within a minute from trying to escape under a bjj black belt (not even considering the vast difference in grappling knowledge). You cannot take for granted the conditioning you get from bjj. Before I started training I used to get exhausted from 20 seconds of intense exertion like in a fight.

 

[empsim]

A good blow can KO anyone GJJ or not. Just one punch behind the ear and you're in deep shit. Most guys that never did anykind of boxing / kickboxing, can throw a overhand right, it's the most natural punch, it won't be technical but if it lands and don't see it coming it's dangerous to anyone. In street fights, sucker punches are pretty much what start everything.

If it doesn't end on the first blows, any good BJJ guy can manage to get on top fairly quickly and nullify most of the threath. By pulling guard or by getting the takedown, if you can start to pummel for underhooks or whizzers the guy with no knowledge of grappling will be mounted or back taken very early.

how many fights end with a first punch KO? 1%?

if a freaking bjj blackbelt can't easily close the distance, throw some untrained dude on his back and beat him up he should give his fake belt back

 

[TheMaster]

Watch that Eddie Bravo event where you can throw slaps. Many sport BJJ guys turtle up from them. One guy ate so many from mount without even attempting to escape, because he froze up for a long time, the fight got stopped....from slaps.

This is the key issue. Even if you have alot of technical skill on the ground, if you never trained with strikes:
- alot of what you do may not be safe if someone is trying to punch or otherwise strike you
- you might freeze the moment you get hit for real

Also this is assuming the BJJ guy can get the takedown against a strong guy who wants to stay on his feet.

Like an above poster said, there are high level technical ground grapplers who would fold from a few hard slaps let alone punches. The sport BJJ guy is entering a new world the moment someone punches his head or body on the feet or on the ground, and if hes never been hit before then it really depends if he can still hold it together and how much of the skills he has will still he available under this new type of pressure.

 

[Kingbedlam]

I go to a sport BJJ school and we also do basic BJJ and takedowns. Sometimes when I ear people say that sport BJJ is only guard pulling and worm guards it makes me mad. We all have the same basics, we all do takedowns, we all do gi and no gi. There's just some schools that don't waste time with the self defense that Rickson wants us to do.

Having done some self defense classes in kung fu, I don't really believe in the ''remember the right reaction for each situation''

The beauty of BJJ and grappling is that we can do a lot of live sparring without injuring ourself too much, so we can make every techniques natural and instinctive. Self defense classes are as if you binge studied for an exam in 2 months, there'S no way that you will remember it when you need it.

I definitely agree with a lot of that, and I personally feel that Rickson is mainly going for a power grab because the Gracie family has lost its monopoly on Bjj training. Some of the self defense stuff that we learn reminds me a lot of old school martial arts stuff that I find kind of boring and pointless. However, I do think though that the headlock counters, bear hug counters, how to close distance while someone is trying to punch you, and dealing with strikes while in guard was very important stuff for me to learn.

But yeah, the Helio counters to a wrist grab from 50 years ago can just go away.

 

[Hotora86]

Watch that Eddie Bravo event where you can throw slaps. Many sport BJJ guys turtle up from them. One guy ate so many from mount without even attempting to escape, because he froze up for a long time, the fight got stopped....from slaps.

Googled that but didn't find anything. Link please?

 

[fishNjits]

Black Belt?

All it would take is a three-stripe white who knows how to close the distance.

 

[Kinosis]

thats something totally different

you think an untrained guy getting ragdolled by a bjj blackbelt would be able to land a decent punch or slap on the ground?

1. It shows even training for slaps in an upcoming event, they have done so little real fighting that they can't deal with it.

2. If they can't deal with a guy slapping them, on the ground where they are supposed to be experts, they sure can't deal with someone who can throw strong, hard punches on the feet. They are going to cave and fold quickly.