Soy?!? Wtf?!

[Brand Nizzle]

Alright, this was posted in another thread, but it needs to be brought up again. I am considering completely ABOLISHING soy from my diet because of this post. Somebody, anybody, please tell me this is bullshit, pahlease. = (

Soy is poison, pure and simple!

For those of you here who claim that there are pro's and con's to the Soy debate in an effort to somehow validate the acceptance of Soy, the fact is that this methodology is intellectually dishonest and denies multiple verifiable facts.

FACT:
Soy protein has a degree of muscle building value in terms of being a highly bioavailable protein, etc, etc.

FACT:
Despite this fact, there is an abundance of research that consistently supports the multiple negative aspects that far outweigh the bioavailability of Soy.

The following have been CONSISTENTLY observed by researchers in Australia, Japan and the US:

* Decrease in total testosterone.

* Lowering of total sperm count.

* A direct causal decrease in male babies testicular growth and hormone development.

* Causes an observable decrease of intestinal development in babies.

* Has estrogen mimicking (genestein and daidzen) compounds in it. (If you'd like to debate this, bring it!)

The following empirical evidence speaks for itself. The largest male consumers of soy milk are those in South East Asia. There are obvious exceptions, however the vast majority of males living in South East Asia, are physically smaller, with less muscular builds than their European counterparts. Not surprisingly, they also exhibit less facial and body hair growth. As such, the implication is obvious!

1. Atanassova N (2000). Comparative Effects of Neonatal Exposure of Male Rats to Potent and Weak (Environmental) Estrogens on Spermatogenesis at Puberty and the Relationship to Adult Testis Size and Fertility: Evidence for Stimulatory Effects of Low Estrogen Levels. Endocrinology Vol. 141, No. 10 3898-3907

2. Chorazy PA (1995). Persistent hypothyroidism in an infant receiving a soy formula: case report and review of the literature. Pediatrics Jul: 96 (1 Pt 1): 148-50

3. Irvine CHG (1998). Phytoestrogens in soy-based infant foods: concentrations, daily intake, and possible biological effects. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med1998 Mar; 217 (3): 247-53)

4. Lohrke B (2001). Activation of skeletal muscle protein breakdown following consumption of soybean protein in pigs. Br J Nutr 2001 Apr; 85 (4): 447-57

5. Nagata C (2000). Inverse association of soy product intake with serum androgen and estrogen concentrations in Japanese men. Nutr Cancer; 36 (1): 14-8

6. Newbold RR (2001). Uterine Adenocarcinoma in Mice Treated Neonatally with Genistein. Cancer Research 61, 4325-4328

7. Pollard M (2000). Prevention of spontaneous prostate-related cancer in Lobund-Wistar rats by soy protein isolate/isoflavone diet. Prostate 2000 Oct 1; 45 (2): 101-5

8. Strauss L (1998). Genistein exerts estrogen-like effects in male mouse reproductive tract. Mol Cell Endocrinol Sep 25; 144 (1-2): 83-93

9. Weber KS (2001). Dietary soy-phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats. J Endocrinol Sep; 170 (3): 591

 

[supersudo]

<=== soy-free, teh way to be

i wish i knew this when i was a kid.. i would probably be twice the size i am now! :icon_cry2

 

[supersudo]

The following empirical evidence speaks for itself. The largest male consumers of soy milk are those in South East Asia. There are obvious exceptions, however the vast majority of males living in South East Asia, are physically smaller, with less muscular builds than their European counterparts. Not surprisingly, they also exhibit less facial and body hair growth. As such, the implication is obvious!

this part struck me particularly hard the first time i read it as i remember my dad telling me after my facial hair started coming in at around age 19 or 20 that he didn't start growing facial hair til he was around 30 yrs old!... he grew up in vietnam btw and he's 5'0" tall

i'm 22 right now, and i only need to shave/trim my face once every week if need be.. i'm 5'8", the tallest in my family.. and fried tofu and soy milk were some of my favorite foods growing up.. :icon_sad:

 

[monkey roll]

i don't think anyone on this part of the board will tell you differently. But thanks for posting this for all the noobs.

 

[Valgarv]

this part struck me particularly hard the first time i read it as i remember my dad telling me after my facial hair started coming in at around age 19 or 20 that he didn't start growing facial hair til he was around 30 yrs old!... he grew up in vietnam btw and he's 5'0" tall

i'm 22 right now, and i only need to shave/trim my face once every week if need be.. i'm 5'8", the tallest in my family.. and fried tofu and soy milk were some of my favorite foods growing up.. :icon_sad:

lol well there's also the deal with 3rd quality beef used by most all fast food places which has soy added to meet FDA standards (this shit is also fed to our kids in school cafeterias)

 

[Brand Nizzle]

I can't believe this shit. I drink chocolate soy milk by the gallon. = ( Have I done irriversable dAMAGE?!?!?!

 

[grapling101]

I can't believe this shit. I drink chocolate soy milk by the gallon. = ( Have I done irriversable dAMAGE?!?!?!

Hell whats the worse thing to happen? You get man boobs?
I used to eat the hell out of soy burgers till about 8 years ago when I started hearing about all the stuff soy is not good for.

 

[Ted-P]

My lord.

I was fed soy all my fucking life.

No wonder Asians are so small.

Thank goodness though. I'm 6 feet 2 inches.

But I ain't muscular nor hung like a horse.

 

[Rjkd12]

I don't think soy is great for you, but Entropy went over the top in his posts. Later on he even quoted that it could make you homosexual. A co-worker of mine has been drinking soy since he was like 4 and he is around 6'7 250 lbs. He drinks it like crazy, soy peanut butter, soy milk soy everything. If it was that bad we would hear more about it.

I wouldn't go out and buy soy milk, but if someone offered me a soy hamburger (assuming it tasted good) I'd eat it. Don't have it be a staple in your diet but don't avoid it like the plague.

 

[Ted-P]

I don't think soy is great for you, but Entropy went over the top in his posts. Later on he even quoted that it could make you homosexual. A co-worker of mine has been drinking soy since he was like 4 and he is around 6'7 250 lbs. He drinks it like crazy, soy peanut butter, soy milk soy everything. If it was that bad we would hear more about it.

I wouldn't go out and buy soy milk, but if someone offered me a soy hamburger (assuming it tasted good) I'd eat it. Don't have it be a staple in your diet but don't avoid it like the plague.

That is true, but it could be he grew that big despite of it?

or he can handle soy better than us?

 

[Ted-P]

How about people like me who was fed soy quite regularly since inside the womb?

Like many asians?

You think that could be correct?

ANd by the way, I believe Entrophy disagreed on that stance that it could make you gay. I believe he posted for the information of what the soy could do to the body, but not necessarily for the conclusion of the article.

 

[supersudo]

That is true, but it could be he grew that big despite of it?

or he can handle soy better than us?

well.. maybe he had a diet rich in nutrients?.. cuz most asians have strong bones despite of soy weakening them bcuz they regularly consume 'bone broths' and soups.. rich in nutrients..

i think my growth spurt was bcuz i drank 2 gallons of cow milk weekly (was ALL i drank back in jr. high and early high skool) i didn't like water at all back then.. i stopped for about a year or so, and when i tried to drink milk again, i found out i became lactose intolerant..

 

[mhalp]

Soy gives me wicked gas. I can handle whey protein, however anytime I try soy protein, (either in a shake or as an ingredient in a protein bar) I end up farting for a few hours.

MY body must not be able to digest soy.

 

[supersudo]

How about people like me who was fed soy quite regularly since inside the womb?

Like many asians?

You think that could be correct?

ANd by the way, I believe Entrophy disagreed on that stance that it could make you gay. I believe he posted for the information of what the soy could do to the body, but not necessarily for the conclusion of the article.

also, my human sexuality teacher at my old college (i transferred) showed a video about hermaphrodites, then went on to say that pregnant women should avoid soy cuz it could mess with the baby's development..


u know, female bodybuilders get a full array of 'male features' using testosterone for a long time.. so i'm sure it's safe to assume that men can get 'female features' if they get extra estrogen... or eat enough soy long enough...

just the other day, i went bowling at my skool and this viet guy who was like less than 5'0" tall came in and bowled right next to us.. he looked like a little kid like 10 yrs old! but he was a college student...

 

[Valgarv]

I think you all are putting too much stock in the power of soy. Yes, environmental factors play a huge role in how your body develops but don't ignore genetics. In general, asians have thousands of years of evolution to thank for that.

 

[supersudo]

I think you all are putting too much stock in the power of soy. Yes, environmental factors play a huge role in how your body develops but don't ignore genetics. In general, asians have thousands of years of evolution to thank for that.

the northern chinese are naturally the bigger asians than the southeast asians (also where yao ming is from).. i had a chinese friend who was well over 6'3" i'm estimating.. with a sister that was about the same size maybe bigger as well.. reminded me of piston honda!

the northern chinese diet is mainly the stuff u see at places like panda express.. (although americanized a bit with added sugar, more meat, salt and frying) much less soy than southeast asian diet..

 

[Noskill]

I'm with RJKD, Entropy's posts definitely won't make me consume more soy, but I think it's useless to get so concerned about it. Studies are studies, but when you cite them, you choose which ones to cite. A selection goes on in terms of what you'Re trying to prove.

I'm pretty sure there are more studies about the benefits of soy than about its disadvantages. The benefits are linked with longer longevity (the japanese have the greatest life expectancy).
Disadvantages are being short/lacking muscularity and having a short dick. (pretty sure no studies prove the latter though.)

So don'T eat soy until you are 60, then hit it.
Basically it seems that what will make you a big, strong, hairy man with a pole like mine will kill you early, and that what would turn you into a girly wimp will give you great longevity. Eating healthy is not the way to go for the serious lifter, because the definition of health has nothing to do with physical performance. It has only to do with not getting cancer and living long.

I say eat like shit (cooked/raw pieces of animals) till being big and strong is impossible anyway, then turn to green tea/soy/girly foods.

 

[monkey roll]

I think you all are putting too much stock in the power of soy. Yes, environmental factors play a huge role in how your body develops but don't ignore genetics. In general, asians have thousands of years of evolution to thank for that.

Soy effects the amounts of estrogen people have. That's one of the reasons why they're shorter and smaller.

Also, woman in the far east doesn't suffer from Menopause Symptoms as much as woman does in the west.

The point is soy's not good if you're tring to bulk up or train hardcore. What's the point of eating soy, while there are better sourses of protein. If i'm taking a ZMA, why am i going to eat any soy products.

 

[Bubble Boy]

Most nutritionists (including people like Andrew Weil) would tell you that Soy is a good thing. The book "The Okinawa Program" is a 25 year study of the world's healthist and longest living people of the world, the Okinawans. Suprise, suprise, they consume more soy than anywhere else in the world. Soy occupies estrogen receptors and activates them weakly, while blocking stronger estrogens. That is a good thing.

Also, as an interesting side note, soy consuming Okinawan men have higher testoterone levels than just about any other western country, including the good ole USA.

Asian size comes not from eating soy, but from caloric intake adaption over thousands of years.

As with everything though, moderation is the key...

 

[frosty_coles]

soy products have phytoestrogens in them leading to effects on your hormone balance


but for this to happen you would need to consume alot of soy prodcuts

and i mean alot


I was very concerned about this a year ago and fortunatly i have a couple of friends who are students studying to be nutritionists and they asked their PROF. and the prof said soy products are good in moderation but not somthing you want to consume alot of if you are a man

and when i say alot i mean making it a key part of your diet


bioavailabilty doesn't make soy protien great , rather it is it's slower rate of absorption that makes it superior to Whey protien

whey is great after a workout when your body can actaully use that rapidly digesting whey protien, but any other time of the day it is a waste to use Whey becuz you body cannot make use of it before it passes thru your system...unless you are in a recovery phase and rebuilding alot of tissue

this is really where whey falls short

keep in mind that before whey caught on for bodybuilders that cheesemakers would simply discard the whey as a byproduct in the making of cheese...once they found out they could sell this shit that they used to throw away by modifying it slightly they began to market it as the best form of protein using it's BIOAVAILABILTY to make it sound like the best protein

which IMO is far from teh truth

hemp protien is a much better form of protien

whey simply absorbs much too fast, most overrated supplement by far