• Xenforo Cloud is upgrading us to version 2.3.8 on Monday February 16th, 2026 at 12:00 AM PST. Expect a temporary downtime during this process. More info here

Somebody please show me the receipts!

Shilajit said:
who says Jones was signed to fight Ngannou?

He was likely signed to fight for the HW title. And his opponent was dependent on what Ngannou decided to do. Various media excerpts point in this direction.

So, do you think if Ngannou was lured to sign a 3 fight deal and stay with the organization based on false pretenses, that it would just be perfectly fine?

If this happened and Ngannou lost the Jones fight as a result of the UFC being dishonest during negotiations, it would be a big deal.

I was responding to your own legal post. That a contract is not valid until two parties agree.

So, hypothetically, if Ngannou had signed a 3 fight deal, it was later learned that Jones hadn't signed yet and he subsequently decided to stay retired, the fight doesn't happen.

This would effectively make Ngannou's 3 fight contract null and void and if the UFC argued otherwise, Ngannou would have the grounds to pursue legal action in order to be released.

What you're saying would be accurate if it were just a one fight deal, those fall through all the time as you mentioned.

But in this case, the whole basis behind getting Ngannou to resign would be the 8 million dollar Jones fight. It was their biggest bargaining chip to get him to stay with the organization.

It would mean the contract was signed under false pretenses

Obviously this is all just conjecture though because the UFC wouldn't be dumb enough to do any of this.
Click to expand...
You keep saying the same thing over and over and it's still incorrect. You're making an assumption because you think it's a logical one to make, but it's literally not true that Ngannou being offered a contract is proof that Jones signed. It's also false that it would result in legal issues, and it's false that the law would be different for a multi fight deal vs a single fight deal.

You should be a little more humble about what you do, and don't know. This obviously isn't your wheelhouse.
 
When his deal got done Gane and Francis were set to fight for the title. Gane was expected to win that fight but given Jones's arguments it seems very likely he went into this with Gane/Francis/Stipe as his original plan.

More proof is Jones quarenteeing he'd fight 3 times at HW before the Gane fight when it turns out he's only going to do 2. The 3rd fight he was referring to was almost certainly Francis but when he said that quote it was still unclear Francis was going to leave the UFC.
 
Welterskelter said:
MODS: If you happen to pass through and find any of the responses from @Shilajit or @icemun less than helpful, feel free to clean up their mess. Much appreciated.
@icemun especially. He just keeps cluttering threads with the same hateful cut and paste garbage.
Click to expand...

First off, if you want mod intervention, mention one.

Secondly, most people have their mind made up about this and are backing their guy. There is no concrete evidence either way outside of Jones asking for '$30 million' to fight Francis a few years back, in Dana's words; Jones himself tweeting that $8-10 million was too low; and that Francis wasn't signing any deal with the UFC that didn't allow him to box, regardless of money or opponent. Everything else is speculation. These threads have been done to death. You've got guys on both sides of the aisle who refuse to budge. Just let it go.
 
Phill said:
You keep saying the same thing over and over and it's still incorrect. You're making an assumption because you think it's a logical one to make, but it's literally not true that Ngannou being offered a contract is proof that Jones signed. It's also false that it would result in legal issues, and it's false that the law would be different for a multi fight deal vs a single fight deal.

You should be a little more humble about what you do, and don't know. This obviously isn't your wheelhouse.
Click to expand...
You said it yourself. If the fight never happened, the contract is null and void.

Considering the Jones fight was the main reason why Ngannou would have signed the 3 fight deal to begin with.

It should make the contract null and void. In accordance with the legal document you posted.

Which is exactly what I said.

But my question is, what happens at that point?

Do they pretend the contract didn't exist, or would he have to be fight to be released from it?

I suppose it's hard to me to imagine the UFC would offer a contract to a fighter with such vast implications, in such a widely public negotiation based on a contingency.

They wanted Ngannou to stay in the organization and were willing to do anything in their power to do so. So they offered him a fight which they supposedly didn't even have the capacity to make?

It seems very amateurish, not something you would expect from a multi billion dollar organization who's credibility is infused into every action.

The fact that they weren't negotiating for a single fight is an important distinction to make. Because the implications were a whole lot bigger and far reaching.


The pieces of the puzzle fit together much more sensibly if we take heed to what the insiders and whistleblowers have said since September.

That Jon is back with the organization, Helwani tweeted that the UFC were trying to make Jones Vs Stipe in December.

Jones Tweeting about dominating in his first HW fight at that same time.

There's a lot of reasonable signifiers that Jones had come to an agreement.

Just as there was that Ngannou was still in negotiations.
 
Last edited:
Substance Abuse said:
First off, if you want mod intervention, mention one.

Secondly, most people have their mind made up about this and are backing their guy. There is no concrete evidence either way outside of Jones asking for '$30 million' to fight Francis a few years back, in Dana's words; Jones himself tweeting that $8-10 million was too low; and that Francis wasn't signing any deal with the UFC that didn't allow him to box, regardless of money or opponent. Everything else is speculation. These threads have been done to death. You've got guys on both sides of the aisle who refuse to budge. Just let it go.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
A side tangent

When it comes to official announcements, I think they tend to withhold that information until the actual fight is confirmed. The magnitude is much greater in terms of promotion.

If they'd come out and said Jones is back, but we don't have an opponent yet. It's pretty underwhelming.

It doesn't make the same impact on the public.

And the UFC is all about maximizing promotive power.

While nothing was announced officially until January, everything was pointing in the direction of Jones having reached an agreement a long time prior to that.

Particularly when Helwani started hearing rumblings from his sources about the UFC wanting to make a Jones Stipe fight back in October. As well as Chael's many posts.

Information was certainly leaking about Jones return in many places.

I don't believe these are things that take place while a fighter is still negotiating. It just isn't something that happens.

But because there was no official announcement earlier, obviously people are going to believe what they want to believe.

I think when you read between the lines though, It's pretty clear what happened.
 
Shilajit said:
Official websites say Conor got 3 mil for his last few fights as well.

The UFC never releases the real details of contracts to the public. Only tidbits.

And again, every indication is that Jones had already reached an agreement before Ngannou left. So it doesn't matter who he fought, same bag.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Either way it’s neither here nor there. These guys aren’t scared of each other. No sense I’m trying to prove that they are. It’s silly
 
Shilajit said:
The contract Ngannou was offered proves that Jones had come to an agreement. Otherwise it wouldn't be legal.

You cannot offer something in a legal, binding contract that you do not have.

Especially considering that fight was the main focal point of the contract and bargaining chip to coerce Frank into staying.

Do you believe they offered him a contract based on a fight that they couldn't even guarantee? A multi billion dollar company?

Everything in the media indicated that Jones had already come to an agreement back In December 2022 as well. With the UFC eyeing his return in March.

Frank was still in the midst of negotiations, a fact that Dana and the UFC made very clear.

If Jones hadn't come to an agreement yet, then it would be known in a very similar way.

But instead we seen an actual date for his comeback.

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2022...ght-francis-ngannou-curtis-blaydes-ciryl-gane


It's a matter of reading between the lines.
Click to expand...
Shilajit said:
I'm not sure what you guys are failing to understand here.

The contract Ngannou was offered proves that Jones had come to an agreement. Otherwise it wouldn't be legal.

You cannot offer something in a legal, binding contract that you do not have.

Especially considering that fight was the main focal point of the contract and bargaining chip to coerce Frank into staying.

Do you believe they offered him a contract based on a fight that they couldn't even guarantee? A multi billion dollar company?

Everything in the media indicated that Jones had already come to an agreement back In December 2022 as well. With the UFC eyeing his return in March.

Frank was still in the midst of negotiations, a fact that Dana and the UFC made very clear.

If Jones hadn't come to an agreement yet, then it would be known in a very similar way.

But instead we seen an actual date for his comeback.

https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2022...ght-francis-ngannou-curtis-blaydes-ciryl-gane


It's a matter of reading between the lines.
Click to expand...
 
nonoob said:
"Selecting very carefully his opponents, not risking his legacy",
and your logic somehow tells you that Pico is GOAT?

Flawed AF Logic. GOAT fighters have huevos and take on ALL opponents.
Click to expand...

I think he is for sure.
 
We are all allowed to think what we want, remember, thinking doesn't make it real.

Saying the same thing over and over does make SOME people believe it,
just not those who know better, tell the truth, and won't "parrot" what is heard .
 
Last edited:
@Substance Abuse
I edited my OP to make some clarifications. Hopefully it comes through as more objective this time and an earnest attempt at a good faith conversation. Seems like there was a few misunderstandings about where I was coming from.
I wouldn’t mind a soft reboot if it’s possible to incinerate the painfully boring pages of repetitive banter posts from both sides (myself included).
Let me know if this is within your power to trim some of the fat of this thread to bring it back down to earth and make it a fun conversation again. Or we can just let this dead horse decompose. Sincere thanks.
 
Facts: Francis was under contract and had to fight out his contract. UFC could have made him Fight whoever they want. Jones refused to fight.


Everything else is irrelevant or opinions.

UFC could have forced Francis to fight or stripped him but Jones wasn’t a willing dance partner. When Francis was out of his contract ufc apparently offered him 8$ million to fight Jones(who didn’t ever sign on btw) in an attempt to retain his services and the belts integrity.
 
Welterskelter said:
@Substance Abuse
I edited my OP to make some clarifications. Hopefully it comes through as more objective this time and an earnest attempt at a good faith conversation. Seems like there was a few misunderstandings about where I was coming from.
I wouldn’t mind a soft reboot if it’s possible to incinerate the painfully boring pages of repetitive banter posts from both sides (myself included).
Let me know if this is within your power to trim some of the fat of this thread to bring it back down to earth and make it a fun conversation again. Or we can just let this dead horse decompose. Sincere thanks.
Click to expand...

Just remake the thread. Everyone will come back in and argue the same crap, lol.
 
Welterskelter said:
@Substance Abuse
I edited my OP to make some clarifications. Hopefully it comes through as more objective this time and an earnest attempt at a good faith conversation. Seems like there was a few misunderstandings about where I was coming from.
I wouldn’t mind a soft reboot if it’s possible to incinerate the painfully boring pages of repetitive banter posts from both sides (myself included).
Let me know if this is within your power to trim some of the fat of this thread to bring it back down to earth and make it a fun conversation again. Or we can just let this dead horse decompose. Sincere thanks.
Click to expand...
Appreciate you bro

I think this is one of those things

Where we need to talk shit endlessly before we can trim the fat.

I've learned from this as well. My posts have been incredibly long.. so, I could do better in every way.
 
mjfan23 said:
Facts: Francis was under contract and had to fight out his contract. UFC could have made him Fight whoever they want. Jones refused to fight.


Everything else is irrelevant or opinions.

UFC could have forced Francis to fight or stripped him but Jones wasn’t a willing dance partner. When Francis was out of his contract ufc apparently offered him 8$ million to fight Jones(who didn’t ever sign on btw) in an attempt to retain his services and the belts integrity.
Click to expand...
Nah

That's not how it works.

They can't just make someone fight like this

Jones initiated the superfight discussions under the pretext that they're paid in accordance for it.

Which initiated Francis pursuing his own bag.

You say Jones refused to fight, yet Chael said he was back in the UFC and they were waiting for Ngnannou to sign.

Ngannou by his own testimony said he was offered the fight for 8 million and refused it.

Some of you guys are literally saying the exact opposite of what actually happened to the point of delusion.

Whether you admit it or not, you either don't like him or are biased in some way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,281,471
Messages
58,370,336
Members
176,014
Latest member
Tweizvenh

Share this page

Back
Top