Some questions from light sparring session [VIDEO]

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Ignoramus, May 24, 2014.

  1. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    So I haven't done any serious boxing/striking for half a year or more now, committing most of my time to grappling. About to start the striking cycle back up in June, though, and this was basically a benchmark to see where I stood. I'm in the blue shirt.

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    So here are some technical questions:

    I mostly get caught when in the process of backing up. What's the ideal solution to this for my style? Clinch as someone presses forward? Pivot out more instead of backpedaling? Turn the backpedaling into a setup for some counters?

    @ 00:35 of the second video, I start setting up a lead/lunging left hook with some jabs to the body. You can hear my shoes squeak as I try to go for it lol, which probably means my footing is off somewhere. I just started adding this to my toolbox, but lot of times it misses, or if I land it, it's not really hurting them as much as I'd like it to. What am I doing wrong with the mechanics? I'm setting it up with the body jab enough to get them to drop their hands, but I think my left hook form might be off. Floyd likes to throw something between a hook and uppercut when he does this move, maybe that's more effective?

    How's my footwork btw? Am I too stagnant at times? I'm often confused between moving away too much when I'm in a good position, and not moving away when I'm in a bad position. Wish that shit would chill lol.

    A more general question:

    A training partner of mine who mostly does Muay Thai has developed a more unorthodox style over time, and with anything you repeat, you start getting better at it.

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    A lot of what he does is technically wrong in boxing, but he has a lot of success with it because it's weird and people aren't used to seeing it. The guy he's doing the stuff he's doing to is actually a really fucking good boxer. But he's getting away with a lot of bullshit and who's say that he should fix it if it's not broke.

    The way he fights now is actually a lot closer to how I used to fight (not as sloppy on the punches) and how I naturally want to fight. I'm wondering where the line should drawn between an unorthodox/improvised style and a more technical/systematic style. What's more successful in MMA? Does it depend on the fighter's athleticism? Or does it work better against some fighters and not against others -- "punch the boxer and boxer the puncher," as Roy Jones said.
     
  2. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    Nothing?
     
  3. HighestHand

    HighestHand Blue Belt

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    A lot of trainers and people don't like back pedaling as it sets your opponent up for combos and attacks. You're giving them momentum and rhythm. However don't confuse back pedaling with a dodge.

    I don't have time to address the other points now and if someone else doesn't do it then I'll try to later.

    Btw r jabs to the body popular? I mostly hear of crosses but not jabs.
     
  4. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the response man. Jabs to the body are one of my favorite set up punches for stuff like the lead left or the overhand right. They stop the opponent from coming forward, serve as a good counter to the opponent's jab, and IMO the jab to the body, jab to the head is one of the highest percentage entries to other combos.

    You change levels for the body jab, they either block downstairs or try to counter you downstairs, and that's when you go back upstairs when they're reacting downstairs. I can't seem to land that lead left hook the way I want to though.

    Plus not many people do it enough, so there's always that unconventional factor.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  5. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    To answer your questions. Not having ropes to be trapped on is going to be bad for your sense of where to move, or when to stop backing up. As far as the lunging hook deal, get your basics down before you try to emulate things. To try to tell someone how to do that move with no foundation, you might as well say "Learn to box better".

    As far as the third video, i don't get what you're seeing. You wouldn't want to be doing any of what either of them are doing in a ring, cage or otherwise. If you're asking what's better, learning to be technical or fighting unorthodox. Of course it's better to learn to be technical. You don't learn to be unorthodox or teach yourself to have an awkward style. What you think is a developed unorthodox style from your friend is just perpetuated bad boxing.

    Stop thinking so much in terms of style as in "Oh i have to have this style or i want this style". Just learn to fight properly.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  6. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    I agree with what you're saying about not fixating on styles and just learning good mechanics, but I think there's something to be said about breaking certain rules on purpose.

    And the guy in the orange made it all the way to nationals in Golden Gloves or something-or-other, idk what you mean when you wouldn't want to do what either of them are doing.
     
  7. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    Okay, but there is a difference between doing it on purpose, and just not knowing what you're doing.

    You move well enough from what i see. You just need to work on further developing that base, or you're going to end up building yourself from the outside in (Or wrong side up? whatever) Which is really what a boxing trainer should be doing for you anyhow. You might even excel at one thing, but you won't have the foundation to sustain it.

    Take Naseem Hamed for example. He had skills, he had the moves, and you couldn't say he didn't know how to box. Yet when matched against a no frills fighter, he was able to be cracked. A fighter with no flashy moves or tricks, just solid technical skills.
     
  8. Ricki

    Ricki Yellow Belt

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    I'll take a shot at this...
    I know little about this style of shelling up constantly with your lead hand down. It's useful for slipping straights, but you end up ducking most of the time anyways. And when you get close, it's useless all the way down there; from that range your shoulder isn't enough to block the left side of your head from hooks. Another benefit of that stance that I didnt see you use here is the up-jab, a quick flicking-like jab that lands more with the back of your hand and can pass under a opponent's guard to surprise him.
    But the basic jab is the thing that is really lacking in these two rounds, why would you want to initiate with a leaping left hook over and over? ...Too much risk involved and easy to time a counter to after a couple attempts. It also doesn't give you good balance to follow up with more attacks. Learn to step forward (just a bit) as your weight pushes off your back foot and you spear your oncoming opponent with a straight jab, make sure you back foot follows for the follow up right.
    We can see how straight and solid that straight right is, get your left to do that as well but incorporate the necessary footwork, that'll help you have a faster snap back on the return too. Your right in particular tends to stay fully extended for too long on the straight punches.
    I expect my criticism to be critisised, so let's hear the feedback.
     
  9. Philippe

    Philippe White Belt

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    You will injure your front knee in the long run in you keep traning in that floor, too much friction, when you rotate your knee your foot kinda lags behinds especially when you lunges.
     
  10. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    I threw the lead left hook maybe like twice in both videos, so it's not something I'd spam, but it's a nice shot to have here and there since I already set it up with the body jab.

    As for jabs in general, I usually throw a lot more up-jabs and jabs to the head, but this vid didn't really have too much of that for some reason. Definitely something to adjust.

    Good points brought up man, and I wouldn't be stupid enough to waste my time criticizing someone else's critique. Everything's worth looking into and questioning. Thanks for your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  11. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    Show me an instance of what you're talking about dude, cause IDK... If anything hardwood flooring has less friction than say a mat or canvas. And don't get the front knee brace twisted. I sprained my LCL from a failed gogoplata in BJJ.

    You're right about needing to fix my footwork when I lunge in, though. But I think it's more of me doing something incorrectly more than it is the type of flooring.
     
  12. HighestHand

    HighestHand Blue Belt

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    Personally I find the jab to the face then cross to the body a lot more effective than just a jab to the body because if you think about it, your arm is a fixed length. That length is much better as a side of a triangle rather than it's hypotenuse, so you're going to be a lot closer to land that jab. To me it sounds like a good way to take a cross counter.

    Anyway while I don't agree with fighting rabbit 100%, he does make a good point about learning how to fight properly. In my opinion you should always learn the basics before gravitating towards your own style.
     
  13. Ricki

    Ricki Yellow Belt

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    I like these videos. Critiquing sparring rounds is a great way to spark a discussion about technique, with a reference for everybody to refer to; it benefits everyone in the end: the guy sparring, the writer (typing it out reinforces memory) and the lurker.
    I'm basically saying feel free to throw up some more vids if you got them. I'm sure you'll get some great feedback if it attracts the attention of some of the more renowned profiles on here.
     
  14. fightingrabbit

    fightingrabbit Banned Banned

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    Coulda fooled me.
     
  15. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    It is possible a guy could look awkward..suspect..sloppy..etc and still be more than capable of fighting and doing so at a high level....the way a guy looks isnt always a determinant of effectiveness.

    That being said too many times guys try to be unorthodox in their technique..approach..strategy; but don't have the physical skillset or frame or natural timing/way of movement to pull it off and end up getting their doors blown off because of it.
     
  16. TeepKing

    TeepKing White Belt

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    I remember playing basketball with my buddies at a gym once and a group of old Russian guys came in (of course we were all black. Lol). We can beat these guys 5x5 right? No, we got dominated. Because their basics we so good. Almost perfect. No crossovers. No flashy moves. Just solid basketball.

    Made me think a lot about my boxing. That was the main reason I dropped all the "styles" and just focused on the little details of every move I made, and my boxing improved tenfold. Just focuse on the basic and your style will develop on it's own. Mayweather isn't good because of his style, he got good and that is the style that he ultimately ended up with.
     

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