Social Security to run out in 17 years

[helltoupee]

Keyword there is job. JOB

As in i do something in order to receive compensation.
I dont get paid to breath...



Also, I PAY TAXES

Social Security is not being paid just to breathe. In the majority of recipients, you receive what you paid in, via TAXES THEY PAID, whilst having A JOB.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I have an IRA account where my employer matches whatever I put in. I think that will hold me over.

Depends on what you're paying for insurance.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Social Security is not being paid just to breathe. In the majority of recipients, you receive what you paid in, via TAXES THEY PAID, whilst having A JOB.

Its deferred though, so when you draw benefits....


You are not doing jack and shit. Which is why i wish it was optional, i can do substantially better myself with that 7.65%.

Thats all i originally said, i wish i could opt out. U ran with it playa

Many public teachers dont pay into it, its not unheard of

 

[Jack V Savage]

That feelings don't matter in a debate about facts. That kinda is what launched him

On that one minor point, OK. I think he's a really poor thinker, though.

I think that that kind of thing is pretty common on the right, though, because the right-wing movement in America is much more ideologically driven than the left (which is more of a coalition of interests). Mentioned that to ultra. If most right-wingers could grant for the sake of argument that modest increases to MW benefit the people they are intended to benefit, that tax cuts for high incomes don't actually boost growth, that human-caused climate change was a real thing and a serious problem, that immigration boosts economic growth and doesn't hurt native wages, etc., their views wouldn't change because their positions on those issues aren't based on the effects of policy; they're based on the belief that regulation of market activities are morally wrong, that progressive taxation is unfair, etc. Conversely, most liberals would change their positions on those issues if they were convinced that they were wrong. No one wants "bigger gov't" or higher taxation for its own sake; they want it because they think it leads to outcomes that they consider good.

It'll never run out as long as people are paying into it. This doesn't even make sense. Like Jack said, they raised the rate to compensate for the discrepancy with the decreased work force.

And the government doesn't "pull from it" to pay for anything. They just borrow against it like everything else our government does.

I wouldn't even say that the borrow against it. SS buys gov't debt. The excess money goes back to the gov't, which is then obligated to pay it back on a regular schedule. It's just like if I buy bonds on a primary market. I give the gov't immediate, and I get an income stream in return. That's not an underhanded deviation from the plan--that is what the plan is. It's like describing my scheme to rip off the bank as, "the money the bank gave me is gone. I used it to buy a house, and they're left with nothing but my obligation to pay them and a lien. I pulled one over on them."

 

[superpunch]

Looks like I struck a nerve, just by noting that your post didn't make sense (and, interestingly, you didn't respond by trying to tighten up your thinking).

SS has a dedicated tax, and the excess collections from that have been invested in bonds. Your point does not compute, no matter how upset it makes you.

Would you invest in a firm's retirement plan whose portfolio invested your money in the firm's own bonds? Why not?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Would you invest in a firm's retirement plan whose portfolio invested your money in the firm's own bonds? Why not?

That would be dumb for a firm, but it makes sense for the gov't.

Further, there's a contradiction at heart here. It's true that what we're looking at is a kind of accounting game designed to maintain the status of SS as being self-funding. But if we want to dismiss that game, then we're also A) acknowledging that gov't debt is much lower than generally reported and B) SS can't "run out." It could just be paid from the general fund, and there's no meaningful shortfall other than a general gov't deficit (and SS's contribution would be small and easily fixable).

 

[genecop]

SS has been running out in 17 years for the last 70 years

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Would you invest in a firm's retirement plan whose portfolio invested your money in the firm's own bonds? Why not?

i get where you're going w/ this, but how different do you see this then say a retirement plan that grants stock options?

either one is centered in the continued success of the organization, right?

 

[superpunch]

i get where you're going w/ this, but how different do you see this then say a retirement plan that grants stock options?

either one is centered in the continued success of the organization, right?

lol

 

[superpunch]

That would be dumb for a firm, but it makes sense for the gov't.

Further, there's a contradiction at heart here. It's true that what we're looking at is a kind of accounting game designed to maintain the status of SS as being self-funding. But if we want to dismiss that game, then we're also A) acknowledging that gov't debt is much lower than generally reported and B) SS can't "run out." It could just be paid from the general fund, and there's no meaningful shortfall other than a general gov't deficit (and SS's contribution would be small and easily fixable).

My brain is hurting reading this

 

[Jack V Savage]

My brain is hurting reading this

I'll simplify:

1. We can treat SS as being separate from the rest of gov't. If so, the trust is running out in 17 years or so, and it is invested in bonds.

2. We can treat SS as just being part of the gov't. If so, there's no trust and no investment.
Gov't debt is far less than reported, and there is no funding issue with SS specifically.

 

[superpunch]

I'll simplify:

1. We can treat SS as being separate from the rest of gov't. If so, the trust is running out in 17 years or so, and it is invested in bonds.

2. We can treat SS as just being part of the gov't. If so, there's no trust and no investment.
Gov't debt is far less than reported, and there is no funding issue with SS specifically.

Shouldn't your 2 conclusions go with the other assumptions?

 

[HunterSdVa29]

whats is yall's opinions on a 401k/TSP versus an individual Roth IRA?

i like the freedom to purchase individual stocks in the IRA and that it is post taxed

But the 401k generally matches up to say 5% (meaning you are inherently doubling your investment up to that line, helping to account for any dip in the market as whole), allows one to purchase into mutual funds (well that's pretty much all you can buy) w/o meeting that mininum 2.5k or 5k buy in, and obviously has a much larger annual contribution limit

If i was able to purchase individual stock in the 401k i wouldn't have a Roth to be honest. But since the annual limit is so relatively low, it allows one to be much more ballsy if they properly diversify their larger other accounts

Or maybe some of you are into real estate and the like? as in physical holdings, not like MREITs

 

[pinger]

What are they supposed to do though? They cant work forever?

I'm not suggesting that, just pointing out that it's an issue created by demographics. Combined with a few other factors it becomes a perfect storm.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Shouldn't your 2 conclusions go with the other assumptions?

Those aren't conclusions. Just different--incompatible--ways of looking at the issue of SS funding.

 

[superpunch]

Those aren't conclusions. Just different--incompatible--ways of looking at the issue of SS funding.

You said

1. We can treat SS as being separate from the rest of gov't. If so, the trust is running out in 17 years or so, and it is invested in bonds.

2. We can treat SS as just being part of the gov't. If so, there's no trust and no investment.
Gov't debt is far less than reported, and there is no funding issue with SS specifically.

Surely you realize you're just arguing accounting technicalities? That's why I asked you if you'd ever willingly invest your money into a firm's retirement plan who's portfolio consisted of bonds to their own firm.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You said

1. We can treat SS as being separate from the rest of gov't. If so, the trust is running out in 17 years or so, and it is invested in bonds.

2. We can treat SS as just being part of the gov't. If so, there's no trust and no investment.
Gov't debt is far less than reported, and there is no funding issue with SS specifically.

Surely you realize you're just arguing accounting technicalities?

I'm not arguing them. I realize that that's what we're talking about, but what I'm saying is that the two perspectives here are incompatible. You can't both say that the trust fund is somehow not real *and* that it is running out. If you're going to take the perspective that the trust fund is not real, that means that there's no specific SS funding issue (because you're rejecting the framework of it being separate from the rest of gov't finances).

 

[superpunch]

I'm not arguing them. I realize that that's what we're talking about, but what I'm saying is that the two perspectives here are incompatible. You can't both say that the trust fund is somehow not real *and* that it is running out. If you're going to take the perspective that the trust fund is not real, that means that there's no specific SS funding issue (because you're rejecting the framework of it being separate from the rest of gov't finances).

That's a bunch of mumbo jumbo

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's a bunch of mumbo jumbo

It really isn't. I'm not sure how I can simplify further, though. Maybe this:

You can't view SS as both separate from the rest of gov't for accounting purposes and not separate.

Then you can read what I've already explained to get more details?

 

[TeTe]

Looks like I'm fucked. Good to know I paid out the fucking wazoo in taxes so worthless dyrelicts can take what I worked my ass off for

Trying living in Chicago/Cook County. I can tell you that as someone who lived in St. Louis, you have it pretty easy in that regard.