So you think you know all about karate??

[shinkyoku]

I often run into people posting about karate saying. "I know about karate. I used to train it as a kid".

Well...

WKF/point karate.
No/skin touch, break after each exchange of hits. KO=disqualification for contact. No lowkicks, no knees, no elbows. Without doubt the largest sport karate version in the world.



Ippon shobu/point karate
Light contact. break after each exchange of hits. KO=disqualification for contact. No lowkicks, no knees, no elbows.

Notes. The "original" point karate system. Now mostly associated with and used by, the Shotokan style.

Bogu karate.
Heavy contact. Break after each clean hit. KO= win, but almost impossible with the equipment.
Knees &elbows allowed. Lowkicks USUALLY not allowed.



Notes: Popular among traditional Okinawa karate&kempo styles. Uncommon elsewhere. Some styles use special names for their rule versions.

Continuous bogu kumite
Nihon kempo karate.
Using a variation of Bogu kumite. (bogu= armoured, and the same term used for kendo armour) that is continuous (ie, they do not break after every hit)


Knockdown karate.
Heavy contact. Continuous fighting (no stopping to hand out points unless it involves a knockdown). KO=win.
Lowkick, knees and elbows allowed, but hands&elbows must hit below the neck.



Notes: Very big, but fractured between several rival style organizations that do not cooperate.
Sometimes called kyokushin fighting, after the style that originated the rules and still is the largest style using them, by people not familiar with the multitude of styles using the rules now..

Glove karate.
Heavy contact. KO=win.
Based on knockdown in scoring, but with rules modified to use boxing gloves and head punches. Elbows not allowed.


Notes: Looks like kickboxing, and many amateur kickboxers in japan try it out. But it is NOT kickboxing. Growing fast in Japan.

Shinken shobu
Heavy contact. KO=win.
Based on knockdown scoring but with rules modified to use small gloves and head punches. Elbows, lowkicks, knees are allowed.

Notes: Kyokushin special rule set. New and not very big -but the interest for it is growing.

American point karate.
Semi-contact.
No lowkicks, no knees, no elbows. Foot fencing.


Notes: The less said the better. No really -shush! Maybe it will go away if we just ignore it.

Contact karate
Not sure about the specific rules here -but basically kickboxing.


French contact karate. Might be the same as above.
One of the fighters is Karim Ghajji, who is fighting in the reserve fight of the Glory Welterweight tournament on Glory 13 next month (december 21, 2013).


ISKA contact karate
no lowkicks, no elbows, no knees.


Iri kumi go
Full contact. KO allowed. ("go"=hard. Also exist in a "ju"/soft version using light contact with no KO).


Notes: traditional sparring system for goju karate. popular before point karate and dreams of sport unification, but now making a comeback as tournament rules.

Irikumi Ju
Having mentioned the Goju kumite format Irikumi Go (Go=hard contact), I might aswell mention Irikumi ju (Ju=soft contact)
Light contact only, continuous fighting.

Note. Different Goju organizations have slightly different rule variations. Apparently this particular one bans punches to the head aswell as hard contact.

Hokutoki "Koi no takinobori ryu" MMA karate.
Allows basically anything. up to and including eyepokes.
Those russians are crazy.


Nihon Zendokai karate. Vale tudo karate. offshot from Daidojuku.
KO =win.
Lots of grappling.

Notes. small style of karate existing only in Japan. But only one of several styles doing "MMA karate"

Pro karate Do (french)


Pro karate Do (Japanese)


Chaos Madmax -Kenshikan karate organization Special rules event

Note, there have already been 3 full rounds of the fight when this clip starts.

budokai allround fighting karate.


Ukado (Unified KArate DO -or something similar)



Daido juku. Originally a mix of kyokushin and judo. Technically they are calling themselves "Kudo", not karate, since a few years. But they tend to forget that when it suits them to use the Karate label.
allows knees, elbows, lowkicks groin strikes, headbutts, grappling, strangulation, submission.



one more system of karate. this is PRO Karate Tatsujin in Japan. another of the mma inspired ones.



Im not stopping because I am running out of different types karate competition versions.

So. Still think you know all about karate??

 

[Uchi Mata]

What's the advantage of doing any of these instead of simply using K-1 or Muay Thai rules? It seems like they're all artificially restrictive (or at least most). It's an interesting write up, but it seems like if you want to fight you should probably just do one of the kickboxing styles.

 

[Hamnabaki]

I thought I did before I jumped in here. After youre presentaino now I know I know all about Karate! end thread/

 

[Discipulus]

Damn son! I was completely unaware that this large a variety of styles existed.

This page is a nightmare to load because of all the videos, haha!

 

[Navi16**]

2 weeks ago I started Shotokon and Kempo Karate its been good, I also have been doing Taekwondo for a year and have a yellow belt but I always wandered to myself it may be a stupid question but do they consider Taekwondo a Karateka?

 

[sakurabaz00x]

Thanks for the info. It's enlightening to know there are so many schools of karate, especially since I did 2 classes of Karate back when I was like 8, and it was just known to me as karate.

 

[shinkyoku]

but it seems like if you want to fight you should probably just do one of the kickboxing styles.

Because they are not restrictive??? lol!


EDIT
new version of Nihon kempo karate (Continuous bogu kumite) as the previous link died and new forum rules no longer allow me to save a post with more than 5 vids -so I cannot replace the vid by editing the old post.

 

[shinkyoku]

2 weeks ago I started Shotokon and Kempo Karate its been good, I also have been doing Taekwondo for a year and have a yellow belt but I always wandered to myself it may be a stupid question but do they consider Taekwondo a Karateka?

Depends on who "they" are.

TKD has gone to a great length to disassociate itself from its karate roots. Even inventing a fake history to prove that it is older than karate (sometimes even that karate comes from tkd). The general view among karate-ka (in my experience) is that if they want to be something else so much, let them.
Many outsiders do not know the difference, though.

 

[atecubanos]

K1 our low kicks full contact for adults, point fight to kids.
I really like the kickboxing options, because the athlete grows in challenge through skill level.

 

[Memory**]

damn thanks for doing all the research man.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Very educational. Thank you

 

[Azam]

I've been admiring the Shinken Shobu competition format since Royama started it - I'm actually seriously considering competing in this format in the future - do you know if the Kyokushinkan of Royama allows karateka from other organizations to compete - also do you think there would be any bias if say someone like me were to compete under Shinken Shobu rules - being from IKO1 - I know many guys in competition who are from other organisations suffer from bias style ref-ing in other organisation's competitions.

 

[Pathogenic]

Solid write up; thanks. I hate to project my ignorance, but I always thought there were only two types of karate competition: full-contact Kyokushin, and the point fighting ones. I was very wrong!

 

[shinkyoku]

do you know if the Kyokushinkan of Royama allows karateka from other organizations to compete -

To my knowledge it is only kyokushinkan as of now. Although I know a few kickboxers have joined kyokushinkan dojos to participated.

I think you have greater chance to be allowed to fight shinken shobu outside of japan (it is growing nicely in eastern europe) than in Japan.

But Im not from kyokushinkan, and I do not have first hand knowledge.

also do you think there would be any bias if say someone like me were to compete under Shinken Shobu rules - being from IKO1 - I know many guys in competition who are from other organisations suffer from bias style ref-ing in other organisation's competitions.

Not really for me to say, being from shinkyokushin. But the relations between IKO1 and the Royama group are not the best. It was not THAT long ago since Royama broke out from IKO1 to found kyokushinkan (or was expelled, according to IKO1).
Bias should not be there, but Bias SHOULD not be anywhere, and frankly politics tend to corrupt.

 

[shinkyoku]

Solid write up; thanks. I hate to project my ignorance, but I always thought there were only two types of karate competition: full-contact Kyokushin, and the point fighting ones. I was very wrong!

Thank you. And as I wrote at the end. I didn't stop because I ran out of different types of karate competitions.

 

[Dragonborn]

This guy knows karate.

 

[shinkyoku]

Thanks for the info. It's enlightening to know there are so many schools of karate, especially since I did 2 classes of Karate back when I was like 8, and it was just known to me as karate.

That is the point of the thread
A while ago we had a karate practitioner from another nation (former east block) join our dojo while studying in the area. She was highly graded and a skilled point karate fighter, but did not know there was different competition formats or even that there was different formal karate styles. She had just been taught "karate" (which turned out to be shotokan) and just competed in "karate" (=WKF type point karate).
so it is not just "outsiders" who dont know much about karate.

I like to think I know a lot about karate. But I also know how little I know.

 

[Joe Hallenbeck]

shinkyoku - I have a question for you:

What do you think is necessary to call given style " XXX Karate" ?- to use "karate" phase.
Because I perceive karate as a style originated in Okinawa. But most of those looks like have nothing in common with original karate except of gi. They look like someone blend boxing/kickboxing/mt/judo/karate and "invent" new form "RussianRyu Yamato Karate". They have maybe 5% techniques of true original karate.
Do we really can call it Karate?

 

[shinkyoku]

shinkyoku - I have a question for you:

What do you think is necessary to call given style " XXX Karate" ?- to use "karate" phase.
Because I perceive karate as a style originated in Okinawa. But most of those looks like have nothing in common with original karate except of gi. They look like someone blend boxing/kickboxing/mt/judo/karate and "invent" new form "RussianRyu Yamato Karate". They have maybe 5% techniques of true original karate.
Do we really can call it Karate?

Very little modern karate has much to do with the original selfdefense system that existed in okinawa 120 years ago.
Point karate/WKF/ippon shobu certainly do not look anything like it.
The Gi & belt was adopted from judo when exported to mainland japan in the 20ies.
Grappling was more or less removed at some point.
Gloves obviously didnt exist, and while sparring existed it was not as free as today. Medic knowledge was not as advanced and smart people avoided getting injured.
Sport fighting didnt exist until the 30ies.

The answer to your question -which I think can be summed up as "when does karate stop being karate" is -I do not know, and neither do anyone else.
I would personally not call the stuff from the american point karate clips I posted "karate". But at best what I have is a opinion.

Everything today is a compromise between realism, safety and sport-entertainment. Karate did not freeze as it was in the 1850ies -but neither did any other art. Boxing today do not look even remotely like it did back then (throws, kicks, bareknuckle etc etc). Muay thai is very different from the muay boran of ages past.
Why should karate not be allowed to change over time?

The problem with punches is that if you put on boxing gloves, it does not matter much what you do -it looks like boxing punches.
Grappling is grappling.
As for the "5%" statistic -that sounds very research based.

Some stuff has been forgotten. some has been reinvented/reconstructed -sometimes with help from arts where it has not been forgotten. Equipment has changed, causing changes in technique. People have had new ideas. sport rules has encouraged sport adaptations.
And do not forget, even back in the 1850ies, at what we regard as the "original" karate, it was regarded as perfectly normal to travel to other countries, learn, bring back and integrate. This "keep everything pure" is a modern concept.

 

[Joe Hallenbeck]

Thanks. You have good points.

"As for the "5%" statistic -that sounds very research based. " - I think you know what I mean be that, english is not my native language so I try too use shortcuts. By 5% I mean little.

I love karate, and try too defend it were I can but today "karate" too often is used as just marketing phase.

For me karate is combat art with connections to japan and with added philosophy to physical techniques. karate = (physical techniques) + philosophy.