So much for the " A-Level " athlete...

[dmwalking]

I've always laughed at that A level athlete BS. In the end, no matter how physically gifted you are, you still have to know how to fight. Not everyone is built to be a fighter. That's why we see flabby guys wreck shredded and ripped guys. It's why Cain was able to burn through Brock. Don't get me wrong, being an A level athlete is a huge plus, but it's only one of the many attributes you need to beat the best of the best.

 

[Lee_]

Won the HW belt and defended it twice? Not bad for somebody with such relatively little training in the sport.

Brock actually had an adequate time to train given he was already a wrestler. He had the same amount of training as Cain, and got absolutely smashed.

Has the A level athlete argument shifted? Before, an A level athlete was supposed to dominate, now they just need a good showing for their time spent training?

Of course an athlete can do well sooner than a non-athlete, that doesn't mean they can ever be the best, which was the original A level athlete argument- that with a little training, any of them could come in and dominate in the UFC (a wishful thinking pipedream basically).

For HW's in the UFC, it also means they are benefitting from a weak division. Brock would never have beaten MMA's elite HW's.

 

[Lee_]

Lesnar actually did great and became champ but he was also a d1 wrestling national champion.

He just reacted terribly to being hit and that messed up his career. He also had an iron chin and could take huge shots. I think if he didn't become ill and then get that steroid suspension, he could have had a resurgence.

Lesnar is also why I don't blame Dana for not chasing really good wrestling prospects. You see what happens when a guy reacts badly to strikes. It's not a sure thing they will be even good mma fighters. They may or may not be.

Brock became champion when there were no good HW's. The first elite HW he fought (Cain, who again had trained for about the same amount of time as Brock) totally smashed him, and made him break dance in the octagon.

He was a big, athletic fighter, but not a very good fighter. Which is my whole point- beng this A level athlete that can run, lit, and jump well doesn't mean you will ever be the best in MMA, and Brock was never the best. He just didn't run into much competition until later in his run.

 

[bowened]

Brock actually had an adequate time to train given he was already a wrestler. He had the same amount of training as Cain, and got absolutely smashed.

Interestingly, they have the same number of title defenses.

Their training trajectories aren’t as similar as you’re making it out to be. Cain never stopped. He went directly from college to mma. Brock spent 6-7 years in pro wrasslin before going to mma. And then had very little time in training before jumping in at the highest level. In fact, the complaint when he was brought in is that he was being fast-tracked.

I have a friend who wrestled Brock in college. He said it was really unique experience because of athleticism and strength. Athleticism and strength were his best assets. It’s what got him to the dance. Cain was a better fighter, obviously. But that doesn’t mean Brock accomplished wasn’t impressive.

 

[bowened]

Lol yeah Mitrione forgot about that elite athlete.

One of the few fighters who can say they knocked out Fedor cold.

 

[JoshR86]

The A in A-level athletes stands for Anabolic, which USADA killed, we need to accept UFC fighters are now Beta-Level Athletes now, except for Dustin Porier who is a Cuck-Level Athlete

 

[thebesteva21]

Idk the A level athletes that came into the sport late have done pretty well:

Brock won title
Hardy- came into it post NFL career, zero experience, still cracked the UFC and picked up a few wins.
Schaub- failed to make NFL, cracked top 10 UFC
Mitrione- another NFL reject, top 15
Erik Anders- Bama linebacker, had a successful MW career

Brock is the only one with any MMA experience from this list I believe, and he managed to win the fucking title lol.

Jones is probably the best example of an A level athlete joining the sport early (both his brothers professionals), and he’s the fucking GOAT at LHW, maybe all time. He’s literally what everyone means by if some of these guys start mma early, and not their early 20s

 

[Jitter]

no,they make more than the champs. this is NOT debatable dude. justin jefferson is a third string wide receiver on the vikings, hes not a superstar but makes 14 million a year. NO

they dont have to show up to be the next jones or McGregor, because they get paid orders of magnitude more being a third string wide receiver. or any other position.

This is incorrect regarding Jefferson. First Jefferson is on his rookie contract. Second Jefferson is a stud WR who was drafted in 2020 and won offensive rookie of the year. He has already made 2 probowls and is only 22. He had 1400 yrds as a rookie and 1600 yrds last year. His full 4 yr contract was for 14 million. He may set a new bar for WRs when his contract is up. There are talks of him getting 25-30 mil / yr as a WR.
As far as making more money than champs that part is correct. An average NFLer still makes a few million / yr.

 

[Lee_]

Interestingly, they have the same number of title defenses.

Their training trajectories aren’t as similar as you’re making it out to be. Cain never stopped. He went directly from college to mma. Brock spent 6-7 years in pro wrasslin before going to mma. And then had very little time in training before jumping in at the highest level. In fact, the complaint when he was brought in is that he was being fast-tracked.

I have a friend who wrestled Brock in college. He said it was really unique experience because of athleticism and strength. Athleticism and strength were his best assets. It’s what got him to the dance. Cain was a better fighter, obviously. But that doesn’t mean Brock accomplished wasn’t impressive.

Training wasn't really the issue with Brock- he just wasn't a good enough fighter. Whatever is similar or different about their training-, the indisputable part about it all is that Brock's athleticism was not good enough to best Cain- Cain was just a more adept athlete in MMA skills. That's what the whole A level athlete argument ignores- some people are just better at some things regardless of overall athleticism- specialized skills.

I don't think Brock did anything special compared to what other accomplished wrestlers his size could do in MMA. Especially at HW where competition is thin. Brock could probably do well at HW now, but so could any big wrestler. That's just because HW sucks.

 

[BigDramaShow26]

He had plenty of time and the trump card of fabricated A-level athleticism on his side in order to learn how to fight. And he is not 40lbs smaller that Jake Paul ffs <45>

The reality is, A-level athleticism is largely a myth. It’s typically just Americans telling the world their athletes are better than others in a weird self administered ego-massage.

Ok he's probably 30 lbs smaller then. Nate is listed at 180 and I doubt he's really that big.

Why is it an American thing? Tuivasa, Volk, etc. We're very good at other sports and adapted to MMA quickly. You don't think them being A level athletes doesn't help?

The most important thing is always how much heart they have.

 

[The Servant]

You guys know this whole narrative came from the Sports Bar, more specifically the NBA thread because we were bored and it was hilarious?

 

[kenetics]

Where are the cohorts that were explaining to us " A Level " athletes from NFL or NBA would be UFC HW champ in 6 monthes to two years of training ???

Is Greg Hardy not big enough at 6'5" 265+ ??? Not A-Level enough maybe ???
And this is happening why the HW talent pool is at an all time low too... with Bam Bam being ranked #3...

I hope, at least, we don't have to hear this bullcrap now that several..

Seems like becoming a UFC champ requires more than just being a gifted athlete, like tons of technique work, decent fight IQ, good cardio, and many intagibles like chin, grittiness, courage...
Things anyone who actually ever trained knew from the start.

Being "explosive" seems to not be enough when you are trying to land on trained worldclass fighters, not your wife.

I don't think you get it lol. If the A level athletes started mma training or even martial arts since they were young and didn't go to PROFESSIONAL sports they would be champs more often than your average athlete.

How you don't understand this is beyond me.

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

They are revising their argument to be, if someone that would have had the athleticism to be an A level athlete trained mma from a young age, they would dominate mma.

This is an impossible scenario for so many reasons.

They used to say any nfl or nba player or even the benchwarmers or even a good D1 college bball or fball player or even an older guy who played at these levels would run through their ufc division with a few months of training, especially at HW

After this has been disproven repeatedly, then they switched the argument to what I posted above.

lmao what is their obsession with A-level athletes. I don't see how an NFL or NBA player could do well in MMA. There are so many other variables that goes into fight than being able to spring 20 seconds.

 

[560ti]

Where are the cohorts that were explaining to us " A Level " athletes from NFL or NBA would be UFC HW champ in 6 monthes to two years of training ???

Is Greg Hardy not big enough at 6'5" 265+ ??? Not A-Level enough maybe ???

The people claiming that had no clue what there talking about and probably don't even follow the NFL

Hardy was a 6th round pick (real athletic freaks like Von Miller and Myles Garrett go early 1st around) and he's currently almost a decade removed from his athletic peak.

Not only was he never a freak but he was pretty washed up even pre covid.

 

[560ti]

I don't think you get it lol. If the A level athletes started mma training or even martial arts since they were young and didn't go to PROFESSIONAL sports they would be champs more often than your average athlete.

How you don't understand this is beyond me.

Agreed. Most people are referring to guys like Myles Garrett of Von Miller doing MMA growing up or at least picking the sport up while somewhat in there athletic primes.

Greg Hardy (who was a freaking 6th rounder) is literally 7 years removed from a 14 year stretch of competitive football. He's beyond washed up at this point, nothing even close to "A level" about him.

 

[Khaiser]

Ok he's probably 30 lbs smaller then. Nate is listed at 180 and I doubt he's really that big.

Why is it an American thing? Tuivasa, Volk, etc. We're very good at other sports and adapted to MMA quickly. You don't think them being A level athletes doesn't help?

The most important thing is always how much heart they have.

They weighed in like 5lbs apart.

I have no idea why it’s an American thing tbh, but it absolutely. I genuinely hadn’t even heard the term ‘A-level athlete’ before coming on here. It’s an bizarre fascination you guys have with people primarily from the NFL and NBA.

Neither Volk or Tuivasa were anywhere near elite rugby players, so it again begs the question - what exactly is an A-level athlete? T

 

[JustBleed69]

Where are the cohorts that were explaining to us " A Level " athletes from NFL or NBA would be UFC HW champ in 6 monthes to two years of training ???

Is Greg Hardy not big enough at 6'5" 265+ ??? Not A-Level enough maybe ???
And this is happening why the HW talent pool is at an all time low too... with Bam Bam being ranked #3...

I hope, at least, we don't have to hear this bullcrap now that several..

Seems like becoming a UFC champ requires more than just being a gifted athlete, like tons of technique work, decent fight IQ, good cardio, and many intagibles like chin, grittiness, courage...
Things anyone who actually ever trained knew from the start.

Being "explosive" seems to not be enough when you are trying to land on trained worldclass fighters, not your wife.

Not to mention he came in looking morbidly obese.
He looked bad even for a Heavyweight.

 

[MartinGibson86]

They are revising their argument to be, if someone that would have had the athleticism to be an A level athlete trained mma from a young age, they would dominate mma.

This is an impossible scenario for so many reasons.

They used to say any nfl or nba player or even the benchwarmers or even a good D1 college bball or fball player or even an older guy who played at these levels would run through their ufc division with a few months of training, especially at HW

After this has been disproven repeatedly, then they switched the argument to what I posted above.

Thats exactly what the argument always was.


Insecure Shertards made it otherwise.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Spivak would be embarrassed of the uncoordinated nerds using his win to project their insecurities about suckin at sports

 

[kenetics]

Agreed. Most people are referring to guys like Myles Garrett of Von Miller doing MMA growing up or at least picking the sport up while somewhat in there athletic primes.

Greg Hardy (who was a freaking 6th rounder) is literally 7 years removed from a 14 year stretch of competitive football. He's beyond washed up at this point, nothing even close to "A level" about him.

Not just that but did hardy actually have any real and consistent martial arts training over years ? I highly doubt it .