Sidekicks...

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by IrishBeatDown****, Apr 15, 2008.

  1. IrishBeatDown****

    IrishBeatDown**** Banned Banned

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    why don't you see any in MMA? in my opinion there is little more devastating than a stiff side kick to the face... it seems about as practical as a superman punch in that its not easy to find an opening but i feel like it could be a good surprise tactic to throw in to at least mix your game up and give your opponent a new look... thoughts?
     
  2. Tabris

    Tabris White Belt

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    Bas said in one of his tapes if they are used at all, you should throw them to the head. The reason is because you can easily sweep your arm across the leg and it will either make the kicker lose balance or turn their back to you.

    I think in order for the actual technique to be effective in MMA you need great flexibility, speed, and a shortened stance (to throw a lead leg sidekick to the head). All of those are probably not very high up on the list of someone training for MMA.
     
  3. IrishBeatDown****

    IrishBeatDown**** Banned Banned

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    thats a pretty fair analysis. but the stance thing i don't find to be an issue, reason being that a fight requires a fighter to change stances multiple times to prepare for the next attack, adapt to a more defensive position, shift body weight for leverage etc... get inside, exchange a few blows...a quick shuffle backward to a shallower stance... opponent follows in BAM! he walks right into the side kick OR oh shit he spun me around, kick rear leg back into wider lower stance to defend the take down...

    i mean... i dunno i agree that it should be thrown at the head, because unless you catch an opponent square in the middle of the chest(unlikely because he should be in a fighting stance) a side kick anywhere else isn't going to do much damage.

    i guess what i really want to see is a fighter like liddell come out, his opponent expecting liddells usual counter punch game but instead walk into a side kick to the face for an early KO...

    i feel that what makes the side kick a great strike is that it is so unused an unexpected...
     
  4. NinjaKilla187

    NinjaKilla187 Blue Belt

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    Too slow to land it with any regularity.

    And they are deceptively not that powerful. Because you can use all of those big, long, slow twitch muscle fibers in your thigh to do a leg press style push you can really move the heavy bag around or push your pad holder across the gym and think you are kicking powerfully with a side kick. Unfortunately, most guys are getting a lot more push than pow.

    The bang for the buck value just isn't there for most guys and they leave you in terrible position to get taken down.

    Cung Lee is a possible exception but he still hasn't faced top level MMA talent.
     
  5. IrishBeatDown****

    IrishBeatDown**** Banned Banned

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    i see the power argument. and you are right about most guys getting more of a push than a pow, but its not so much the power of the kick that i think would be most devastating... its the centerline attack... it's the stiff force of the heel with a solid base and the weight of your whole body driving a few inches into your opponents mouth.

    now, accuracy is certainly an issue so i am not arguing that this kick should be a staple in a fighters arsenal. only a possible tactic to consider to either catch your opponent off guard or at least confuse him... it is my opinion that in a fight psychological warfare is far more important than strength, speed, or technique... if you control your opponents mind you control the fight. if you can surprise your opponent with something like a sidekick, a superman punch, something unorthodox to throw your opponent off his game... the mental shifts vastly in your favor.
     
  6. cockysprinter

    cockysprinter Purple Belt

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    the bottom line is most people just arent good at them. side kicks are not slow, not weak, and can be thrown from any stance. when we see more people that know how to use them, well see them more in mma. its the same with front kicks.
     
  7. kickboxing_fan1

    kickboxing_fan1 Banned Banned

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    I agree that they are underutilised though according to this article they are the easied to get height;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick
    Also according to the clips from human weapon on youtube they are less than half as powerful as front kick and roundhouse kicks generating 400 pounds of force as opposed to 1000
     
  8. Kyryllo

    Kyryllo Kia kaha e hine!

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    I would not rely much on that numbers, especially since force is not measured in pounds.



    On topic: side kicks are simply a difficult technique, there are multiple applications for a side kick that may be useful in mma but it's still a difficult technique to learn.

    Should I make a tutorial?
     
  9. D.R.H.

    D.R.H. If you haven't heard...I'm the best! Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Your risk to rewards ratio is higher for sidekicks than round kicks. They are also harder to learn to use effectively. That's why you don't see as many people use them in mma.
     
  10. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

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    I like them for the simple fact that they cane come from interesting angles when used in combinations, and with a step or hop, they can be used to hit pretty darn distant targets.

    Having said that, my flexibility for side kicks is lame (tightness in the outside part of my hip), so I only throw them high when I have a golden oppurtunity.
     
  11. killer_kicks88

    killer_kicks88 Green Belt

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    I pride myself on my sidekick (kyokushin shodan)...but i would LOVE to see tour tutorial
     
  12. NinjaKilla187

    NinjaKilla187 Blue Belt

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    What do you think the percentage of KO's in TKD are from sidekicks as opposed to roundhouse or spinning hooks?

    A tutorial would be awesome. Especially if it shows that no-chamber style Cung Lee kick.
     
  13. Rinksterk**

    Rinksterk** Banned Banned

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    A very experienced TKD guy I know says he doesn't throw sidekicks in competition. In fact the only kicks I've ever seen throw is the roundhouse and spinning back kick.
     
  14. JohnnyBuddha

    JohnnyBuddha Brown Belt

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    I've had some limited success throwing them in sparring when my opponent starts overly relying on his jab and I time his rhythm. Only lead-leg though.
     
  15. Halfway

    Halfway ...there...

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    Cung seems to use his pretty nicely.
     
  16. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's hard for me to believe that they don't throw sidekicks in MT, K-1, etc. out of some blind love for the roundhouse or teep. For whatever reason, side kicks don't seem to work that well in combat sports relative to other kicks.
     
  17. Kyryllo

    Kyryllo Kia kaha e hine!

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    A side kick ko in tkd is yet something that I have to witness, in other words I have never seen one. You can rarely see anyone score a point with it let alone ko someone.If a side kick is used in tkd competition then as a stopper, a push kick or just as a sort of a "jab" that has no intention to connect. The pace that tkd is fought at is way to high and people read your kicks too good, a powerful side kick is just too slow to land it successfully. In other sports where the pace is slower and the action is more stationary the side kick can play a more important role.
     
  18. koreankid6413

    koreankid6413 Brown Belt

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    I've done Tae Kwon Do for 10 years and started Kickboxing and boxing about 3 years ago and MMA 2 years ago. The sidekick is a very powerful kick when executed correctly, yet it is slower but because it doesn't look natural to other fighters you can land it as long as you use them at the right time.

    Side kicks easily have more power than teep kicks, but side kicks are more easily "swept" or deflected to the side then teep. They are also more open for takedowns.

    Being flexible and having done the sidekicks countless times, it is a very useful weapon for me in Muay Thai, Kickboxing and MMA. The kick has lots of power when executed correctly but just like everything else there's a time and place to use the technique, and that rule especially will apply to the sidekick.
     
  19. RandomXMAN

    RandomXMAN Green Belt

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  20. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    IT's alot easier to take a guy down off the sidekick than it is off a teep or a roundhouse, I think it's cuz when a guy lands a roundhouse on me he smashes me too hard for me to shoot while I'm getting hit and he spins faster than I can close. I can still do it, but it's not easy for me. The sidekick I can eat on the way in as I shoot or after he kicks when he gathers his leg I can shoot faster than he can gather and then sprawl.
     

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