Crime Should this cop be fired?

[cooks1]

When police detain you there's no just walking off. If they think they have cause to detain you then they should make sure they do. They'll deal with the consequences later if they're violating your rights.

I don't disagree. If he had swiftly and decisively subdued the guy when he tried to leave, that would have been fine IMO. But just trying to block the exit was not a good call.

But I think it would have also been fine if the cop decided to let the guy head out when he wanted to and follow at a safe distance, continue to try and calm him down, and wait for help. Police have to make judgement calls. They can't simply operate under the assumption they will 'win' every physical interaction they engage in.

You don't really get a good look at the cop in the video. But the perp was tall, fit, and erratic. The police officer could well have determined he needed help to subdue the guy. There is no shame in that. It's how he went about it that is up to interpretation.

I'd love to get some perspectives from people with law enforcement backgrounds.

 

[koquerelle]

Why did the cop use his taser? The situation was way passed that at that point.

 

[irish_thug]

Tell me you know nothing about policing without telling me you know nothing about policing

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The video ended before anything happened. Dude was an asshole(sovereign citizen type) for sure and the officer kept his cool. Lucky for him, the ride along was there but you don’t take them into situations like that. When that douche said “I tell you what to do,” my smart ass would have said “well, tell me to jump and see what that gets ya.”


It almost sounds like you’re saying the cop got what he deserved for detaining the guy. There is not enough context in the video to determine whether detaining him was legal or not, but saying the cop deserved to be shot if it was an illegal detainment is insane

Yes, that would be insane, I said an illegal detainment is handled through the courts not by shooting at the police. If some rogue cop is trying to kill you then that's a different story.

 

[Blayt7hh]

This thread should probably just get deleted and remade with a video of the actual incident in question

 

[Long Dark Blues]

That's alarming

Why?

When you read his initial post, what was your understanding of it?

 

[Telford90]

Why?

When you read his initial post, what was your understanding of it?

Original quote was:

"Sadly incompetent cops who “de-escalate “ to their own risk, injury etc, are many times celebrated by leadership"

Read it as de-escalation is a bad thing, when it's the main thing you should be aiming for in 99% of occasions.

If I misinterpreted my apologies and I retract what I said.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Why did the cop use his taser? The situation was way passed that at that point.

That and running away to hide in another room. Seems like he should be fired or resign.

 

[Protectandserve]

Original quote was:

"Sadly incompetent cops who “de-escalate “ to their own risk, injury etc, are many times celebrated by leadership"

Read it as de-escalation is a bad thing, when it's the main thing you should be aiming for in 99% of occasions.

If I misinterpreted my apologies and I retract what I said.

De escalation is always the ideal. I use it every single day at work. Force is always my absolute last resort but if I decide to keep trying to de escalate and it is well past time to take action and you have the legal and tactical chance to take it but you ignore that and get hurt that’s bad.

I’ve seen cops do absolutely tactically and common sense unsound tactics in the name of de escalation that get them or partners injured and leadership praise it, when it was absolutely moronic.

You need to know case law, policy, state law, etc and have a firm understanding and knowledge of use of force skills to de escalate. Many cops lack that knowledge and skill and it gets them hurt.

 

[Telford90]

De escalation is always the ideal. I use it every single day at work. Force is always my absolute last resort but if I decide to keep trying to de escalate and it is well past time to take action and you have the legal and tactical chance to take it but you ignore that and get hurt that’s bad.

I’ve seen cops do absolutely tactically and common sense unsound tactics in the name of de escalation that get them or partners injured and leadership praise it, when it was absolutely moronic.

You need to know case law, policy, state law, etc and have a firm understanding and knowledge of use of force skills to de escalate. Many cops lack that knowledge and skill and it gets them hurt.

Yep I misinterpreted your initial post and jumped the gun. Publicly eating humble pie. Sorry about that mate. Agree with everything you said in this post.

Going back to the original video, I don't think the cop made any sincere attempt to de-escalate. Saying things like "OK buddy" in a sardonic tone is never going to anything other than piss someone off, especially if they're already heightened.

Should have immediately seen the guy was heightened, and out of earshot requested another patrol. Then he should have shown some empathy. Things like "Hey mate I can see you're really irritated, what's been going on how can I help you?" Try get him onside first.

Actually showing some empathy and compassion works wonders. Unbelievable how many cops get this wrong.

 

[Yoricks Wisdom]

Calling someone 'mate' unless you're down under should result in an immediate beating followed by firing IMO.

 

[nhbbear]

Yes, that would be insane, I said an illegal detainment is handled through the courts not by shooting at the police. If some rogue cop is trying to kill you then that's a different story.

I don’t think you were saying that but I wasn’t completely sure either. It was an iffy way of phrasing it but I agree with what you said here

 

[Telford90]

Calling someone 'mate' unless you're down under should result in an immediate beating followed by firing IMO.

I am Australian to be fair

 

[USA!USA!]

He's lucky to be alive. Don't know if he should be fired, but he should probably be dead if it wasn't for his partner.

I would never want to be a cop. All it takes is 1 mistake with the wrong dude, and you're toast.. or 1 mistake by misreading a situation and you are behind bars yourself. You have to have kid gloves on all the time, especially now with cameras and lawsuits.

It's a fucking rough job. Props to those who serve and serve well.

 

[Scrody]

This video made me look up the full incident. Cop said he pulled his taser because of the employee that was in the office behind the shooter, as well as the rest of the building. Ill advised but valiant. He had a ride along with him that got the drop on the guy after his gun was empty and actually strangled the shooter to death. Cops expected to make a full recovery. I don't think he should be fired, but maybe hit the range some more so you can just dome piece the asshole from the get go.

 

[TheGreatA]

Officer seems like a nice guy so maybe just transfer him to desk duty. He'll likely get himself killed on the streets.

 

[Protectandserve]

I am Australian to be fair

Well then you should be calling them c*nt, at least that’s what I learned when I was deployed with some Aussies in Afghanistan…

 

[Andy Capp]

He's lucky to be alive. Don't know if he should be fired, but he should probably be dead if it wasn't for his partner.

I would never want to be a cop. All it takes is 1 mistake with the wrong dude, and you're toast.. or 1 mistake by misreading a situation and you are behind bars yourself. You have to have kid gloves on all the time, especially now with cameras and lawsuits.

It's a fucking rough job. Props to those who serve and serve well.

With all due respect to the police, and being in full agreement with your last sentence, I feel the need to point out you could say the same about being the driver of a motor vehicle only you might swap "behind bars yourself" with "dead", but not necessarily.

Still, I'm too old now anyway, but even when I was younger, I never considered being a cop either. It seems to be a pretty thankless job at times and the rest of the time may not make up for that. I presume our resident LEOs find the balance tips in favour of "the rest of the time", but I could only test my assumption by doing the job and... well, I already covered that lol

It's sad, though, because where I live now I think it would be far less challenging (usually) than most urban jurisdictions. I don't recall ever hearing of a police officer here suffering a life-threatening injury while on the job (though I may have just missed reporting about it). Even so, I can imagine it could be extremely taxing on one's patience and I'm pretty sure that would end me within a month no matter what

 

[USA!USA!]

With all due respect to the police, and being in full agreement with your last sentence, I feel the need to point out you could say the same about being the driver of a motor vehicle only you might swap "behind bars yourself" with "dead", but not necessarily.

Still, I'm too old now anyway, but even when I was younger, I never considered being a cop either. It seems to be a pretty thankless job at times and the rest of the time may not make up for that. I presume our resident LEOs find the balance tips in favour of "the rest of the time", but I could only test my assumption by doing the job and... well, I already covered that lol

It's sad, though, because where I live now I think it would be far less challenging (usually) than most urban jurisdictions. I don't recall ever hearing of a police officer here suffering a life-threatening injury while on the job (though I may have just missed reporting about it). Even so, I can imagine it could be extremely taxing on one's patience and I'm pretty sure that would end me within a month no matter what

It's a hard job for sure and deserves respect no matter how you feel about LEOs one way or another. Our societies need them, and its only getting harder every year.

I have plenty of friends and family members who are/were cops or detectives, and its very stressful work. I mean, nowadays they get great benefits and pensions.. but is it worth it? To put yourself at risk every day in a thankless job? 1 mistake either way and your career or even your life is over. Even in relatively safe areas, all it takes is 1 junkie with a weapon to get you out of nowhere. You kinda have to be on top of your game at all times - can't mail it in on Friday like us office workers. You make a mistake and you or others can get hurt.. or you could hurt others.

I'm grateful people choose to do it because the more I think about it, I'm not sure I could either.

 

[Andy Capp]

It's a hard job for sure and deserves respect no matter how you feel about LEOs one way or another. Our societies need them, and its only getting harder every year.

I have plenty of friends and family members who are/were cops or detectives, and its very stressful work. I mean, nowadays they get great benefits and pensions.. but is it worth it? To put yourself at risk every day in a thankless job? 1 mistake either way and your career or even your life is over. Even in relatively safe areas, all it takes is 1 junkie with a weapon to get you out of nowhere. You kinda have to be on top of your game at all times - can't mail it in on Friday like us office workers. You make a mistake and you or others can get hurt.. or you could hurt others.

I'm grateful people choose to do it because the more I think about it, I'm not sure I could either.

The issue I have is that there are assholes everywhere but asshole cops, like asshole drivers, ruin lives. However, they are often not held to account in the same manner and the average citizen has no way to judge the proportion of police that are assholes so it's very easy to imagine they all are if you have a bad encounter.