Shooting vs clinch and trip/throw

[PolishHeadlock]

How is what I said not true? What do you think is the most effective wrestling takedown?

In the actual sport of wrestling you see far more singles at a high level. Just too hard to capture both legs for the most part. Unless you are Jordan Burroughs.

You definitely see more singles. Even JB hits more singles than doubles these days

 

[Dirty Holt]

The bolded is not true.

As for the OP a lot of times you see sloppy shots because the guy shootin sin't able to close the distance even though he wants too. This leads to him taking desperation shots because he doesn't really have anything else.

Look at the way GSP and Edgar use theri boxing to close the distance to set up the shot and compare to guys who shoot from 5 feet away.

Taking guys down from the clnch is great but you want to have both of those in your arsenal and use them when the opportunity presents itself.

Yes it is. Studies from the past 14 years of worlds/Olympics show that the double leg is the technique that is scored with most frequently. In addition, the double leg is the takedown technique most scored with in MMA as well.

However, I think the study can be misleading. When it comes to clinch takedowns or shot takedowns, the best one is the one you are best at. One technique isnt any better than the other; however, athletes are better with some techniques than others. For Dan Henderson, the best takedown is from the clinch, but for Chad Mendes, the best takedown is a shot.

 

[Sharknado]

You definitely see more singles. Even JB hits more singles than doubles these days

You have a good point. Most of my experience (competing and coaching) are at the high school level. And at the high school level you drill double legs to the point of madness.

 

[Budo Master]

I prefer supplexes. I don't understand why more fighters don't do them.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Yes it is. Studies from the past 14 years of worlds/Olympics show that the double leg is the technique that is scored with most frequently. In addition, the double leg is the takedown technique most scored with in MMA as well.

However, I think the study can be misleading. When it comes to clinch takedowns or shot takedowns, the best one is the one you are best at. One technique isnt any better than the other; however, athletes are better with some techniques than others. For Dan Henderson, the best takedown is from the clinch, but for Chad Mendes, the best takedown is a shot.

Do you have a link for the studies?

 

[Auspex]

Clinch grappling is my preferred method of TD. In MMA I worry too much about getting knee'd in the face during a shot. I also don't like the position it puts me in.

With clinch based throws I'm essentially passing guard as I execute the throw. And I can dirty it up with elbows, etc to setup the sweep/trip/pickup/whatever. I hate being in closed guard and will avoid TD that don't at least put me in half.


I even like to shoot just to close distance SO I can clinch.

Like someone else mentioned, body locks with the clinich are OUTSTANDING. Thomson was was awesome with those against Bendo

 

[Dirty Holt]

Do you have a link for the studies?

No. The updated stats get posted up on the Olympic Training Center white board after every year. They have been posted on the FILA site and USAW somewhere if you want to take a look. FILA breaks it down by each year and every 3 cycles. I dont have direct links.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

No. The updated stats get posted up on the Olympic Training Center white board after every year. They have been posted on the FILA site and USAW somewhere if you want to take a look. FILA breaks it down by each year and every 3 cycles. I dont have direct links.

Most of those would be started as some variety of single and then finished on both legs, though, presumably? Rather than shot straight into from the open like most MMA double legs.

 

[nohomark]

the future of mma grappling is greco roman wrestling in both takedowns and clinch philosophy, judo and sambo are much more limited imitations and if you read chael's biography he says judo is greco for liberal arts students, just because Rousey can throw Tate doesn't mean judo/sambo is relevant for mma

 

[aries]

Most of those would be started as some variety of single and then finished on both legs, though, presumably? Rather than shot straight into from the open like most MMA double legs.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Single into double.

Thomson hit a great Polish throw in the first round. We are seeing that more and more in MMA.

 

[aries]

Is the old shooting game something they hang on to because it's sort of traditional now?
Or am I reading all this wrong?

I think so. The really great wrestlers like DC seem to finish the doubles by hitting an ankle pick off a single leg, turning the corner into a double off a single or hitting a trip finish. No matter how their opponent tries to defend they find a way around to complete. Guys like GSP, Frankie Edgar and Mighty Mouse can shoot power doubles because they have excellent timing resulting from being really comfortable with striking and they all have fast shots. Your average UFC'er doesn't have the wrestling ability to beat a decent sprawl which most guys are capable of and they don't set up their shots very well.

I also think the cage makes it harder to finish doubles because if the defender gets driven back the fence holds him up acting like a third leg so he can widen his base out as far as he wants knowing he can't fall back. We see it time and again, guys up against the fence wasting energy struggling to lock their hands because the defender has just has widened out his legs and is now smashing down on his opponents head with elbows, Travis Browne style.