Rewatch Shogun v Forrest

[BowserJr]

It's a real damn shame we never saw prime Shogun in the UFC. Those dam CL injuries robbed us of watching his ballet of violence in the cage and the rematch vs the best/uninjured version of Rampage.

Pride haters like to say he wasn't that good cuz he lost to Forrest in the debut while ignoring the injury which prevented him from training any cardio.

He made a career of fighting 10 min rounds but here you can see he got tired and was flat footed after being on top for a few minutes. He also threw naked strikes and barged in thinking he'd blast thru B league UFC comp



In the rematch while not in his peak but at least without an active acl injury we saw what shogun could do to Forrest. Too bad this wasn't the first fight

 

[Mike]

Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Forrest deserved the title shot and the title win, even if he was a TUF newb babyface. Chael had an undeserved title shot at LHW but probably made more money in his YFC run (?) and was able to parlay it into a character and still enjoying success.

Shogun at least became a champion in the UFC. Chuck Liddell was #1 among most MMA sites after he beat Couture in their third fight but he had loss to Rampage who lost to Shogun. Shogun should have been #1 in that year and a half time period.

 

[Minnja]

Shogun is a legend and many of his fans are legendary nut huggers. One of the worst ‘cool fighter but annoying fanbase’ ratios of any fighters of all time. The 100000 excuses per loss (and if he looks not great in victories) and constant “new old prime new PRIDE shogun” type shit is annoying.

I do somewhat respect the nut hugging though, it is insane to be hugging that hard for 20+ years and trying to convince forum dwellers to hug his nuts too

 

[13Seconds]

Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.

Forrest also did well vs Rashad before Rashad just decided to wreck him in the third round. I think he was winning the fight

 

[McSpikes]

Miraculously just about every PRIDE star was instantly out of their prime as soon as they stepped for in America. Or got staph

 

[Doctor Grudge]

In the rematch while not in his peak but at least without an active acl injury we saw what shogun could do to Forrest. Too bad this wasn't the first fight

Griffin was at the end of his career when the rematch happened. How come he gets no benefit of the doubt?

If anything, Shogun was much closer to his peak in their rematch than Griffin was. Rua was the LHW champion like 4 months before their rematch.

 

[Ibm]

Forrest was a great fighter, he had improved insanely after TUF. Isnt it worth accepting Forrest was just a better fighter rather than his opponents were out of prime?

 

[FreddieRoachsVoice]

Shogun is a legend and many of his fans are legendary nut huggers. One of the worst ‘cool fighter but annoying fanbase’ ratios of any fighters of all time. The 100000 excuses per loss (and if he looks not great in victories) and constant “new old prime new PRIDE shogun” type shit is annoying.

I do somewhat respect the nut hugging though, it is insane to be hugging that hard for 20+ years and trying to convince forum dwellers to hug his nuts too

This. All losses for Shogun/Fedor/Prime BJ Penn/Anderson are all completely discredited according to their fans. Also, Khabib has never had a second of a fight not go his way. Take Notoriously bad cardio Conor to the 4th round? "He wanted to punish him more." Fail to control Gatekeeper Al Iaquinta with wrestling? "Khabib wanted to prove he could win a stand-up fight."

Meanwhile, GSP's career is worthless because he tapped to strikes guess he's not one of the chosen few!

Pride nuthuggers picking their favorites over literally any opponent from any era:

 

[witt1021]

how do you know forrest was 100%. he won a fight by KO after he broke his arm during the fight by blocking a kick. snapped his arm, huge calcified lump on his arm to this day. forrest griffen never once made an excuse for any lose ever and as nearly every fighter, fights while having some injury. even in his interviews when he lost he trashes on himself. but never made an excuse.
there are reports out that ive read i dont know if credible or not as i havent looked deeper into them that say most fighters go into fights at around 80-90% healthy. just from cutting weight alone you cant be 100% healthy. and weight cutting effects everyone differently. you are just 100% completely downplaying forrest and giving him no credibility at all.

 

[Emjay]

Time for the trilogy. They're 1-1

 

[tritestill]

Forrest deserved the title shot and the title win, even if he was a TUF newb babyface. Chael had an undeserved title shot at LHW but probably made more money in his YFC run (?) and was able to parlay it into a character and still enjoying success.

Shogun at least became a champion in the UFC. Chuck Liddell was #1 among most MMA sites after he beat Couture in their third fight but he had loss to Rampage who lost to Shogun. Shogun should have been #1 in that year and a half time period.

WEC and why did you bring up Chael in a thread about Shogun v Forrest

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

WEC and why did you bring up Chael in a thread about Shogun v Forrest

I meant his UFC title shot against JJ. To make a comparison on how underappreciated Forrest's title win might be.

 

[tritestill]

I meant his UFC title shot against JJ. To make a comparison on how underappreciated Forrest's title win might be.

Got you. Forrest earned his shot for sure. When Jon could not make the first Chael offer, they should have just given Dan the fight again, but UFC wanted Chael on television.

 

[AstralPanda]

It's wild how much adrenaline was flowing through their veins when fighting pride guys

Pride fighters were literally the boogie man back then

Forrest probably had a lot of sleepless nights over this fight, that's why he fought so well.

 

[moreorless87]

It's a real damn shame we never saw prime Shogun in the UFC. Those dam CL injuries robbed us of watching his ballet of violence in the cage and the rematch vs the best/uninjured version of Rampage.

Pride haters like to say he wasn't that good cuz he lost to Forrest in the debut while ignoring the injury which prevented him from training any cardio.

He made a career of fighting 10 min rounds but here you can see he got tired and was flat footed after being on top for a few minutes. He also threw naked strikes and barged in thinking he'd blast thru B league UFC comp



In the rematch while not in his peak but at least without an active acl injury we saw what shogun could do to Forrest. Too bad this wasn't the first fight

Rewatching the first fight it is pretty obvious even before cardio becomes a factor that Shogun is in a bad state, he looks incredible slow and immobile even compared to the second fight where he was well past his best.

I think you see the same issues in the 2nd Coleman fight AND The Jones fight, both of which is came from from ACL surgery quickly(18 months for Coleman but that was TWO ACL surgeries). People want to play up the Jones fight as this amazing show of dominance but really its 4 mins of fairly mild top control which has Shogun badly gassed in less than a round and then Jones just plays with his food for another 10 mins.

The ironic thing is I think this ended up fooling Dana and Co quite a bit, the Coleman fight I STRONGLY suspect they watched that and though Shogun was done when they booked him against Chuck trying to get Liddell a big name win to boost him back up only to meet a Shogun in far better form with more time to train post ACL surgery. The same in the Forrest rematch as well, Shogun getting destoryed by Jones the UFC probably felt this was a winnable fight to boost Forrest back up and again it blew up in their face with Shogun coming in better form.

 

[Mittens]

Forrest is a _great_ reminder for us all why at the end of the day even MMA is a real sport. People tend to get way too tied up in the "my dad can beat up your dad" narratives - the "primes", the "excuses", the "domination", the "wins 9/10"

At the end of the day anyone can win, or lose. It's a sport.

Forrest was a good, even excellent fighter, who a few times punched "above" his weight in general scheme of things - defeated Shogun and Rampage and became the champion. That's the thing that makes sports interesting, and there should be no need to try to downplay these things.

"Apollo Creed was out of his prime! Rocky was just lucky!"

 

[Mittens]

People want to play up the Jones fight as this amazing show of dominance but really its 4 mins of fairly mild top control which has Shogun badly gassed in less than a round and then Jones just plays with his food for another 10 mins.

I haven't seen that one in ages, and ages but I always thought it was essentially over from the very early flying knee right at Shogun's dome. Rua was just too tough SOB to actually go down like most people would have and the "playing with food" (great way to put it) happened after that with Shogun essentially KO'd on the feet while Jones beat him up until even Shogun could not take it anymore.
Had he gone, and stayed down from the knee, the look of the fight would be quite different than it was due to Rua's 'ardness.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I told everyone I know that Shogun was gonna absolutely kick Forrest's ass. Most stupid I've ever looked in my life.

Still love ya though Maurico.

 

[SuperAlly]

It's wild how much adrenaline was flowing through their veins when fighting pride guys

Pride fighters were literally the boogie man back then

Forrest probably had a lot of sleepless nights over this fight, that's why he fought so well.

Not happy with just clown show threads, clown show replies too