Shinya Aoki vs. Future and Former UFC fighters

[H0nkey K0ng]

Aoki is done done done dotta

 

[GSP_37]

A very talented and controversial fighter, but difficult to gauge (in terms of where he belongs in Top 10-20, etc) because he fought majority of fights outside US big leagues, and seemed to be outclassed when he did fight in US.

The point of OP was his record against UFC caliber opponents, so close your eyes and pretend those UFC caliber opponents were whooped by Shinya Aoki on US soil... rather than in Japan where the proximity to Earth's sun gives Shinya Aoki super speed, strength, x-ray vision, heat vision, etc.

 

[RubberGuard5]

Stats aren't really the useful if you don't have an aim what you tried to find first.
Aoki is a great submission artist, who relies a lot on JMMA's rule that doesn't punish
fighter in the guard position, and allows long tight pants that increase friction.
His downfall is all powerful wrestlers who refuse to play his game.

He hasn't been a guard player since 2008. He hasn't been wearing pants since 2010.

Damn, that butscooting gif made all sorts of myths.

 

[Source]

The point of OP was his record against UFC caliber opponents, so close your eyes and pretend those UFC caliber opponents were whooped by Shinya Aoki on US soil... rather than in Japan where the proximity to Earth's sun gives Shinya Aoki super speed, strength, x-ray vision, heat vision, etc.

The ufc caliber opponents he beat didn't do well inside the UFC. This is evident by their losing overall record inside the UFC. So yes he beat fighters that had fights in the UFC. Having fights in the UFC doesn't make them great fighters.

 

[GSP_37]

The bottom line is Shinya Aoki makes more where he's at and for the most part, he pretty easily handled whoever they put in front of him.

I know MMA math isn't valid, but you have to wonder how he'd fare in UFC when Gomi got submitted by Aurelio & Kitaoka and Shinya handled those two easily.

 

[VolkHan]

Interesting stats ... the first 4 losses were against very good fighters in their prime and in Nakao fight Aoki was very green; also he's always a bit mismatched against heavy hitters btw he was able to beat some of them too.

Btw in general those stats are useless to determinate a fighter legacy

 

[VolkHan]

The ufc caliber opponents he beat didn't do well inside the UFC. This is evident by their losing overall record inside the UFC. So yes he beat fighters that had fights in the UFC. Having fights in the UFC doesn't make them great fighters.

That's even a parameter that depends heavily on matchups and in which part of their career they fought in UFC.
Jutaro Nakao has a 1-1 record in UFC and the lone loss is to Sherk that at the time was one fo the best LW.
Hayato Sakurai too is 0-1 in UFC but the loss was against Matt Hughes.
Aoki fought George Sotiropoulos in his prime, and G-Sot in his prime went 7-0 in UFC, had the downfall in 2011.

Just to highlight how stats are useless if u try to determinate a legacy only thru them, can Jorge Santiago (1-5 in UFC) or Kid Yamamoto (0-3 UFC) careers considered worst than the career of Jon Madsen (4-1 in UFC)?
Pretty sure that everbody think that Santiago and Kid are more relevant than Madsen in the history of MMA ...

 

[AtomicPanther]

An Aoki thread? Dude hasn't been relevant for years. I actually figured he was retired.

 

[CC27]

Still would like to see Aoki at FW vs UFC/Bellator 145ers.

Think he gets beat by the top 3 in Bellator and the majority of the top 10 in the UFC.

 

[Fizzee Water]

He needs to stick to Asia where the fighters don't have as strong of wrestling.

 

[VolkHan]

He needs to stick to Asia where the fighters don't have as strong of wrestling.

actually wrestlers with no KO power (edit: and a worst standup than Aoki in general) are the best matchups for Aoki.

 

[SILVAREDEMPTION]

i love aokis submission game, but his striking is terrible

He has improved over the years, but he is never gonna be high level at it. Trying an ill-advised standing elbow against Alvarez in the rematch was dumb. However his grapplin game is one of the best in the sport for sure.

 

[GSP_37]

I thought Antonio McKee was a wrestler and Shinya basically made him quit due to strikes.

 

[eseseses681]

actually wrestlers with no KO power (edit: and a worst standup than Aoki in general) are the best matchups for Aoki.

Alvarez (great striking) and Kawajiri (very powerful-- he dropped Melendez thrice in their first fight, in which he got robbed, by the way-- and with pretty good striking of his own) beg to differ. It's silly that people discredit Aoki's victory over Alvarez cuz' he later lost to him; it's like discrediting Couture's victory over Liddell cuz' Liddell beat him later on.

 

[VolkHan]

he has wins over powerful guys of course, and like Alvarez and Crusher he beated top guys @ LW.

My reply was to the fact that Aoki should be afraid of wrestlers, instead one dimensional wrestlers, those that wanna take down the opponent and lay on him, are sacrifical lambs to Aoki cauz they have to deal with his grappling on the mat.

 

[eseseses681]

Alvarez and Kawajiri wanted nothing to do with Aoki on the ground. Aoki still got his game going against them.

 

[eseseses681]

A lot of the people who criticize Aoki's striking game may benefit from watching the Shaolin fight and the standing bits of the Aurelio fight, along with his recent exhibition match against Atsushi Sawada. Aoki's hands aren't too great (though they're improving), but he's got pretty good kicks. He even threw some nice flying mule kicks in the Nagashima fight. The big problem with his performances in the Melendez and especially in the second Alvarez fights were that he didn't get his kicks going when he was striking (in the first Alvarez fight he didn't need to, since he was able to catch an Alvarez kick and take him down, eventually grabbing hold of the heel hook, but regardless).

 

[Buff]

Alvarez (great striking) and Kawajiri (very powerful-- he dropped Melendez thrice in their first fight, in which he got robbed, by the way-- and with pretty good striking of his own) beg to differ. It's silly that people discredit Aoki's victory over Alvarez cuz' he later lost to him; it's like discrediting Couture's victory over Liddell cuz' Liddell beat him later on.

To be honest, I take the stance of Chuck having avenged the loss. Twice. I don't view Jeremy Jackson's win over Nick Diaz as credible because the next time they fought Diaz pushed his shit and was way better. Getting your "L" back off someone is a big deal and does kind of invalidate it.

 

[Steveston]

Cody Mckenzie wanted to get a fight with him about a month ago I would have liked to see how that would have played out, It would be awesome to see Aoki return back to Bellator I still can't believe he defeated Eddie Alvarez by via heel hook.

 

[Buff]

After Melendez there was no Aoki in America. The Alvarez win was awesome but it came out of nowhere and he got smashed in the rematch.

He makes the OneFC head kicks on the ground rule look so awesome and needed though. I would like to see him twist up some guys on a Bellator or UFC even - his cameo against Beerbohm was cool at Strikeforce... It's not like he needs the money at this point - would be awesome to see him get a good pay cheque offer worth his time to dismember a Terry Etim type grappler who isn't too hot at striking. I'd watch, and it would end awesome.