Shin conditioning related to bone cancer?

[Brad Gearhart]

I had a friend tell me that he was at the doctors office and when he mentioned Muay Thai the doctor said. " You know the bone cancer rate in Thailand is huge due to all the kickboxing and they way they condition their bones?" has anyone else ever heard of conditioning leading to a higher risk in bone cancer? I've heard arthritis and everything else but this is the first I have heard it being related to bone cancer.

 

[L.I.N.E**]

I had a friend tell me that he was at the doctors office and when he mentioned Muay Thai the doctor said. " You know the bone cancer rate in Thailand is huge due to all the kickboxing and they way they condition their bones?" has anyone else ever heard of conditioning leading to a higher risk in bone cancer? I've heard arthritis and everything else but this is the first I have heard it being related to bone cancer.

WOW, i'd never heard of that before. I'll have to do some research.

 

[iwannafightu2]

i dont think there is even a such thing as bone cancer

 

[Brad Gearhart]

i dont think there is even a such thing as bone cancer

Are you serious?

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/cri/content/cri_2_4_1x_what_is_bone_cancer_2.asp

http://www.aanos.org/epidemiologyboneca.html

Educate yourself

 

[Revok]

No such thing as bone cancer...? okaay. Tell me, what colour is the sky in your world?

I've read about the supposedly astronomical rates of lower leg cancer in Thailand, but then I've also read far more credible sources which state that it's a total myth.

 

[Standard]

Educate yourself

LOL

this guy's alright

 

[CelebritySexist]

Did he tell him that squats are bad for his knees too?

lol at urban mythology. Next thing his doc'll be claiming Oswald acted alone...

 

[MikeMartial]

I'm about to play the Devil's Advocate. Keep that in mind. :icon_twis

It is quite possible that higher rates of bone cancer, specific to one area, could be initiated secondary to trauma. Because of the repeated blows sustained from heavy bag conditioning, checking kicks, etc etc, the bone is essenetially in a perpetual state of trauma.

So what is the body's response to this? Repair, of course. And being the highly efficient machine that it is, build it stronger; stronger via a denser bone matrix. Now, it is possible that traumatized cells have damaged DNA, and when these cells start to replicate, a form of cancer starts (proven to be the initiating factor in other types of cancer). Keep in mind this is just off the top of my head, and I'm no oncologist.

As added food for thought, why is it that osteogenic sarcoma is prevalant in pedicatrics, specifically ones engaged in athletic activities? I haven't read about the type of cancer proported in Thais, but it would be interesting to find some solid studies.

 

[Brad Gearhart]

I'm about to play the Devil's Advocate. Keep that in mind......

Interesting.....thank you.

 

[iwannafightu2]

work

 

[Kyryllo]

There are no studies on shin conditioning about this, but there was a study with volleyball players in the late 80s, that showed a significant corelation between repetitive hits on the bone and cancer. The probability of getting cancer on the lower radius of a volleyball player is very much higher than of no volleyballers.

 

[mjfan12]

even if this is true, keep in mind that thais train from when theyre 5 years old and have hundreds of fights.

so the average mt practicioner in the west would have reduced risks since were lazy, dont train as hard as them, dont practice as hard or as much as them, or fight as much or as long.

 

[Michael_H]

yea another thing to think about with this is that people that may be at higher risk because of the trauma from training will also be at lower risk from being very fit and healthy and having great nutrution.

 

[Standard]

It is quite possible that higher rates of bone cancer, specific to one area, could be initiated secondary to trauma.

*hits mikemartial in shin*



would the same theory not hold true for any form of strength training where the body is damaged a multitude of times and subsequently has to be rebuilt stronger then they were before. Obviously this wouldn't show in the form cancer of the bones, however any cell can become cancerous i believe. It could show in the bones however due to the strengthen of bones caused by the bearing of loads.

kyryllo any chance you could track down that study? would be an interesting read

 

[Brad Gearhart]

even if this is true, keep in mind that thais train from when theyre 5 years old and have hundreds of fights.

so the average mt practicioner in the west would have reduced risks since were lazy, dont train as hard as them, dont practice as hard or as much as them, or fight as much or as long.

If you want to be the best you must train like, or harder than the best. I beat the shit out of my shins. Bamboo, broomsticks, ect. I have been training for about three years and heavily conditioning my body for about two or so. This is where my concern lies. One of the guys that trians with us has been conditioning hardcore for probably four or five years and full on kicks metal poles sometimes. I myself can no longer feel most spots in my shins....good for fighting....possibly bad for health? I guess it doesn't mean I will stop anytime soon. I am just curious about the risk. Thanks for everyone's insight. I will keep researching and update you with my findings.

 

[MikeMartial]

*hits mikemartial in shin*



would the same theory not hold true for any form of strength training where the body is damaged a multitude of times and subsequently has to be rebuilt stronger then they were before. Obviously this wouldn't show in the form cancer of the bones, however any cell can become cancerous i believe. It could show in the bones however due to the strengthen of bones caused by the bearing of loads.

kyryllo any chance you could track down that study? would be an interesting read

Excellent point Standard, since I'd think heavy resistance training falls under the same principle as Wolf's Law. Perhaps the key lies somewhere in pediatric physiology.

 

[Standard]

Excellent point Standard, since I'd think heavy resistance training falls under the same principle as Wolf's Law. Perhaps the key lies somewhere in pediatric physiology.

Wolffs law absolutly applies to resistance training, adding loads to the body is probably the most effective way to generate the regrowth in question. Shock loads and an overall increase to body mass would also obviously apply as well.

I would, now this is just theoretical, assume that the increased amount of bone cancer found in athletes that have repetive impacts to the same area would not show the cause of the cancer more a means to increase the speed that the cancer shows. i think you partial touched on that idea in your post. It would just seem that no outside forces are affecting the cells in a manor that is beyond what the body was designed to handle. So the increased rate may just be a factor of an accelerated need for celular replenishment and not the result of it. if the impacts on bone could cause cancer to form in individuals that were not destined to have it through any other means then every lifter, fighter or athlete is gonna be screwed.

 

[deadlyshaolin]

My two cents:

As in everything else, you have to look at both "nature" and "nurture." That is, environment and genetics in combination. Sure, the Thais conditioning of their shins may lead to higher absolute rates of bone cancer, but the conditioning may only unmask their genetic predisposition to such cancers.

Could be that such activities lower the threshold for development of cancer but don't "give" you cancer if you weren't otherwise going to get it in the first place.

 

[Brad Gearhart]

I found this on an informational website about Uechin-ryu Karate. The only source I found was a man named George Chaplin, 4th Dan, Uechi-ryu Karate-Do.

I am e-mailing the contact listed on the site to ask about the source of the information. Maybe some of you guys that are more educated in Medical Sciences can give us some opinions and insight on this.

Complications of Over Training:
Bones:
Bruised bones take a very long time to heal due to the almost non-existent blood supply. This can lead to some very potentially serious complications. The most unusual and worst these complications being Osteosarcoma or Bone cancer. This is where the regenerative properties of the bone go haywire. In Osteosarcoma the cells change and go mad, proliferating at such a rate they destroy the bone they are supposed to be repairing. This very serious illness is often, but by no means always, set off by a severe bone bruise. Like all cancers, if it is not caught in time, it can be fatal and anyway it is always serious. In young people it is more difficult to catch as it develops at an even faster rate than adults. The other serious complication of bone conditioning is infected bones, osteomyelitis.
This is where an infection sets into the body of the bone. Its main non-surgical cause is almost always trauma. The infection will eventually ulcerate out through the skin. It too can be life threatening because it can cause blood toxicity complications and very high fevers. It is always quite difficult to cure and will often break out again as the infection slowly smolders, undetected, through the bone. Bad bone bruises can leave areas where there is too much calcium deposited or the deposits are wrongly laid down, which may have health implications in old age.

 

[Revok]

...


*vomits in mouth*


*goes off to knit cotton-wool bodysuit*