Sherdog POTWR: Round 2: The Debate

[lecter]

Way too much communists in this race!

 

[panamaican]

Do you think healthcare should be for profit? Please explain why you feel the way you do.

I think that it ideally should be for profit. But if you're going to start mucking around in it then you have to heavily regulate the whole industry.

In a purely for profit model, prices would drop dramatically because people simply couldn't afford the high fees that we currently pay. Our current model only works because we have so many public institutions that subsidize the private sector. Plus the Obamacare mandate but that's a mor recent addition.

Medicaid, Medicare for example. Massive purchasers of medical services yet limited ability to leverage their mass for lower prices. Also, the inability of insurance companies to compete across borders reduces the type of competition that would lower costs. Our patent protection model prevents the creation of cheap generic versions of drugs. Even the cost of medical school is subsidized in the form of no question asked loans. Limited pathways to become licensed to treat people.

In a variety of ways, government intervention is artificially inflating the cost of healthcare. People might claim safety which is fine but the side effect is higher costs without the ability to actually apply brakes.

So absent the ability to actually treat the healthcare market like a real market, we should actually apply more government leverage.

 

[Lead]

Well, Led, I'll try to do this race justice by summing it up as concisely as possible. It's a friggin toss up!

The @Palis / @Dr J ticket seems to be relying on voulme punching and appeal to authority tacticts. Their combination of charisma, humor, and the proposal of a hot chick as WR mascott has them in the lead as of now. "Attack on many fronts, and show cleavage" is my favorite quote from Kenny Florian, and apparently theirs as well.

@Jack V Savage could gather steam in his bid for a unification ticket with @Rex Kwon Do. Imagine if the dark side joined forces with the goody two shoes Jedi! Not sure which is which in that analogy, but they would make a formidable foe to anyone. Not to mention lovely inter-jedi kids. *shudder*

@JDragon also has a great chance to take the whole thing. His mix of communication skills and goal of vetting newcomers is the left kick, H bomb combo in this race. It could end it all in a split second in devastating fashion if his opponents are caught off guard.

Those are the three frontrunners in my esteemed, expert, learned, and most excellent opinion. Oh, and humble as well. Yes, my opinions are humble.

It's anybodys game. Back to you Lead.

Thank you Bald1. Tonight's POTWR Election analysis is brought to you by absolutely no one. We did not get sponsorship money for this unfortunately.

 

[Lead]

Way too much communists in this race!

Who are you leaning towards so far. Who is the lesser commie?!

 

[lecter]

Who are you leaning towards so far. Who is the lesser commie?!

I start reading at page 1 right now.

 

[Bald1]

Thank you Bald1. Tonight's POTWR Election analysis is brought to you by absolutely no one. We did not get sponsorship money for this unfortunately.

Whaaat? We're getting something on the back end, right?

 

[Lead]

I start reading at page 1 right now.

Cliffs:
CUCK CUCK CUCK CUCK
Who are you?
CUCK CUCK CUCK CUK
You foreign cuck
You cuk cuck
CUK!

 

[panamaican]

This is really hard decision for me.

@Jack V Savage is a great poster who always provide substance. @JDragon is the only candidate who have have shown "high energy" when it comes to thread creating, and you know he will be very active as president. But then again, I also really want @panamaican to tell me how stupid I am.

Hmmm... I will need some answers before I can decide. So candidates, please decide on the following:

Marry. Fuck. Kill.

Well, this is going to be awkward. I've always said fuck Dana but in this case: Fuck Honda. Marry Dana (he's go the most money). Try to kill Sakuraba but he probably kills me and the whole thing goes to shit.

 

[Lead]

Whaaat? We're getting something on the back end, right?

Assume that until you've fulfilled all the duties asked of you

 

[Bald1]

lecter was right. Tharr be comminess afoot! Oh well, you know what they say. In for a penny, in for a ruble.

 

[HomerThompson]

I think that it ideally should be for profit. But if you're going to start mucking around in it then you have to heavily regulate the whole industry.

In a purely for profit model, prices would drop dramatically because people simply couldn't afford the high fees that we currently pay. Our current model only works because we have so many public institutions that subsidize the private sector. Plus the Obamacare mandate but that's a mor recent addition.

Medicaid, Medicare for example. Massive purchasers of medical services yet limited ability to leverage their mass for lower prices. Also, the inability of insurance companies to compete across borders reduces the type of competition that would lower costs. Our patent protection model prevents the creation of cheap generic versions of drugs. Even the cost of medical school is subsidized in the form of no question asked loans. Limited pathways to become licensed to treat people.

In a variety of ways, government intervention is artificially inflating the cost of healthcare. People might claim safety which is fine but the side effect is higher costs without the ability to actually apply brakes.

So absent the ability to actually treat the healthcare market like a real market, we should actually apply more government leverage.

I agree with much of this, but don't think there should be a profit motive in health care. Costs need to be dramatically reduced though. Pharmaceuticals and a lot of medical equipment are absolutely ridiculously overpriced. I just don't think there needs to be any waste in the service. High salaries are fine. If there was a way to do it without insurance that would probably be the absolute cheapest way because cost would have to be reduced so drastically. I just don't know how to overhaul that many interconnected pieces in the healthcare industry.

 

[panamaican]

I agree with much of this, but don't think there should be a profit motive in health care. Costs need to be dramatically reduced though. Pharmaceuticals and a lot of medical equipment are absolutely ridiculously overpriced. I just don't think there needs to be any waste in the service. High salaries are fine. If there was a way to do it without insurance that would probably be the absolute cheapest way because cost would have to be reduced so drastically. I just don't know how to overhaul that many interconnected pieces in the healthcare industry.

I think the profit model is what drives innovation and dedication. If people didn't see a path to economic success they wouldn't pursue the field, either on the research end or the direct patient contact end. My father-in-law chose engineering over medicine when he was younger because he couldn't see himself charging poor people for healthcare and thus he couldn't see a real path to economic freedom. This applies to people doing the research as much as it applies to the docs themselves.

In my opinion, the only real way to do it at this point is either pull the plug on Medicare and Medicaid or eventually go single payer.

M&M account for 20% of the healthcare spending. Add in the VA and you're up to 47%. Add up all the various areas that the government is paying and you're looking at 64% of U.S. healthcare spending being funded via tax dollars.

Insurance isn't the real problem here. Without the government propping up the prices in the market, insurance companies would probably have driven down prices already via a refusal to pay for things they consider overpriced.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/janua...-us-health-care-costs-american-journal-of-pub

Admit it...you still like me.

 

[Zankou]

Well, this is going to be awkward. I've always said fuck Dana but in this case: Fuck Honda. Marry Dana (he's go the most money). Try to kill Sakuraba but he probably kills me and the whole thing goes to shit.

Well goddamnit this means I'm the only fuck Saku, marry Dana, kill Honda vote. Being straight isn't enough for me to jump on the Ronda grenade, and with Saku going progressive is a low hurdle.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I feel like the non-causal fans are way too hard on Ronda as a fighter tbh. She got an awful coach and is clearly not right in the head, but she is very talented. She has the skills to win over just about anyone in the bantamweight division, and one could think that perhaps her loss to Holm has taken her down a few notches from the "I can take on Mayweather" shit, she was starting to believe herself. If she has taken a more nuanced approach to striking than just "charge!" (which to be fair worked well until Holly), then I think she has a very good chance against Nunes.
But then again, coach Edmond might just be telling her how the Holly fight was a fluke, and that she's a STRIKING GODDESS and no one can fuck with her, and she just needs to put that fake ass humility bitch looking motherfucker in her place *snort*!

Point being; Rondy has all the tools, she just needs the right mentality and the right coach (I concede that the ladder part is certainly not a given).

Man that sounds awesome. I would love to meet Saku in a karaoke bar, or just about anywhere.

This made me laugh more than it probably should've

 

[HomerThompson]

Well goddamnit this means I'm the only fuck Saku, marry Dana, kill Honda vote. Being straight isn't enough for me to jump on the Ronda grenade, and with Saku going progressive is a low hurdle.

Saku is pretty shot, but he'd probably still make you the bottom. You might want to rethink your answer.

 

[HomerThompson]

I think the profit model is what drives innovation and dedication. If people didn't see a path to economic success they wouldn't pursue the field, either on the research end or the direct patient contact end. My father-in-law choose engineering over medicine when he was younger because he couldn't see himself charging poor people for healthcare and thus he couldn't see a real path to economic freedom. This applies to people doing the research as much as it applies to the docs themselves.

In my opinion, the only real way to do it at this point is either pull the plug on Medicare and Medicaid or eventually go single payer.

M&M account for 20% of the healthcare spending. Add in the VA and you're up to 47%. Add up all the various areas that the government is paying and you're looking at 64% of U.S. healthcare spending being funded via tax dollars.

Insurance isn't the real problem here. Without the government propping up the prices in the market, insurance companies would probably have driven down prices already via a refusal to pay for things they consider overpriced.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/janua...-us-health-care-costs-american-journal-of-pub

Admit it...you still like me.

HA ha. I'm actually in favor of direct cost control in healthcare. We should fund our best and brightest to do the research. Much of which we do now through grants at Universities. I think a provider shouldn't be allowed to charge over a certain amount. Pay grades could be set. It's a lot of control, but I think the right system could benefit society so greatly, and there's no reason for people selling drugs for big Pharma to make 300k a year as salesmen.

 

[Lead]

Saku is pretty shot, but he'd probably still make you the bottom. You might want to rethink your answer.

The guy likes punishment. I think he's right with Saku under.

 

[Bald1]

I think the profit model is what drives innovation and dedication. If people didn't see a path to economic success they wouldn't pursue the field, either on the research end or the direct patient contact end. My father-in-law choose engineering over medicine when he was younger because he couldn't see himself charging poor people for healthcare and thus he couldn't see a real path to economic freedom. This applies to people doing the research as much as it applies to the docs themselves.

In my opinion, the only real way to do it at this point is either pull the plug on Medicare and Medicaid or eventually go single payer.

M&M account for 20% of the healthcare spending. Add in the VA and you're up to 47%. Add up all the various areas that the government is paying and you're looking at 64% of U.S. healthcare spending being funded via tax dollars.

Insurance isn't the real problem here. Without the government propping up the prices in the market, insurance companies would probably have driven down prices already via a refusal to pay for things they consider overpriced.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2016/janua...-us-health-care-costs-american-journal-of-pub

Admit it...you still like me.

How does the idea that the medical field, and especially big pharma are more interested in return customers than finding cures figure into your idea? I get the feeling you're talking about mundane medical issues rather than finding cures for diseases, as well as the medical field as a whole, but the question should fit into the "for profit" model discussion.

And no, I'm not talking about some grand conspiracy, but as with lightbulbs it makes sense to have a return customer base in a profit oriented business.

 

[panamaican]

HA ha. I'm actually in favor of direct cost control in healthcare. We should fund our best and brightest to do the research. Much of which we do now through grants at Universities. I think a provider shouldn't be allowed to charge over a certain amount. Pay grades could be set. It's a lot of control, but I think the right system could benefit society so greatly, and there's no reason for people selling drugs for big Pharma to make 300k a year as salesmen.

We can't afford our best and brightest to do the research. It eventually ends up like the military where we overpay private contractors to do a lot of the heavy lifting. I think if you're going to go control then it has to be all in. Anything else and the private sector will adapt to maximize profits, not social good.

 

[HomerThompson]

We can't afford our best and brightest to do the research. It eventually ends up like the military where we overpay private contractors to do a lot of the heavy lifting. I think if you're going to go control then it has to be all in. Anything else and the private sector will adapt to maximize profits, not social good.

I agree. I want single payer universal healthcare.