SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 55 Discussion - Bone Tomahawk

[chickenluver]

Yeah they went full-on Cut and Run on that guy!

Wtf is happening here? Are the tress pulling him apart?

 

[chickenluver]

I'm sure we can all agree though that he is PERFECT for the genre. No one can play the hard-nosed, grizzled lawman with a good heart like Kurt can.

Totally agree. This role was made for him.

a somewhat original plot -even if its still basically cowboys and injuns.

Yeah I feel like the writer/director loves those old cowboys vs injuns movies, and wanted to do a modern one, so he created this monstrous, cannibalistic, no named tribe to be able to do it.

I thought the line by Kurt Russell was really great; "Say goodbye to my wife, I'll say hello to yours". That really stuck with me. I thought the old man and Kurt had a nice relationship and it was fun to watch.

Same for me.

 

[MusterX]

The waiting, that is as important to this film as the final 45 minutes is. People complain that its too slow, or boring but I don't think so. The character building centered around the main four characters, the posse, is what makes the viewer invested in the outcome. Chicory, for example is a fascinating character to me. He appears to be old, decrepit even, slow, people call him dumb, and yet the sheriff hand selected him to be the deputy sheriff. He is the one that always notices things and makes "smart" observations, and he was also some sort of medic in the war. In addition to that we also know he likes to read books in the bathtub. So he is presented as weak, useless, and dumb but in reality the clues given indicate he most certainly is not.

Brooder joins the ranks of the posse as the killer. He wears a nice suit, has a eyeglass from Germany, and is very handy with a pistol, and he will kill anything that creeps around in the dark but he mocks God and then seems to pay for this in the scene with the thieves. He shoots two of them, Chicory tells him it was wrong and that one of the men he shot was carrying a crucifix and Brooder says then Jesus should have helped him. Sheriff Hunt, played by Kurt Russel then says, I don't think you want to draw His attention right now, then they all go to sleep. In the middle of the night dead men's friends come and are in the process of killing Brooder when Arthur wakes up and shoots one of them. Arthur being the only man in the group that appears religious and prays. Arthur is also the man in the group who is on a quest to get his wife back from the troglodytes.

The Sheriff himself is a classic sheriff, he is a man of his word, he does what he says, like leaving the trail of rocks even when the troglodytes were aware of their presence. When the sheriffs wife tries to talk him out of going to look for Arthur's wife he tells her there is no choice. He was the man that shot the drifter which in turn brought Arthur's wife to the jail where she was abducted. So there is this sense of duty and honesty with the Sheriff Hunt character.

Kurt Russel's death kinda hit me in the feels and it was precisely because of all the "slow character building" that I actually was bummed out he took that death to those troglodyte savages. He had the best line of the movie when saying goodbye to Chicory, "Say goodbye to my wife, I'll say hello to yours." In the end he fired 3 shots, so I guess he avenged his own death by finishing off the tribe.

I very much enjoyed this film.

8.2/10

 

[Guestx]

Lot of darkly comical lines in that early scene, hell the very first line is Purvis asking "why do they always wet themselves?" How's that for an opening shot by the way? Guy getting his throat cut then robbed. Really brought me into the ugly, violent world of the film. I laughed when they were hearing the creepy calls from the troglodytes, Purvis calls it melodious wind or something like that and says "It's ominous!"

Dude, one of the best lines in film history comes in those first five minutes:

"This is not the time for womanly imaginings."

I think they included several lines and moments of comic relief or moments of levity so that the movie wouldn't be overwhelmingly grim. I didn't think of of it was bad, but I kind of wished they had gone ahead and made it overwhelmingly grim. I think after the abduction there shouldn't have been any more moments of levity.

I have to disagree with you on this. I think if the tone of the film had been any darker then it wouldn't have been enjoyable watch. I feel like the balance was perfectly struck. Then again, I rarely get into really dark, depressing shit.

Speaking of violence, my word was that scalping and dismemberment scene brutal. I was quite surprised how graphically that was depicted, especially the 3 or 4 big hacks of the tomahawk straight to the dude's groin, and the subsequent pulling apart of his body.

Yeah, it's pretty fucked up.

. . . after he said the first thing he would do when he got back was buy a music stand so he could read in the bath tub.

LOL, you know I fucking love that scene, because I read a fair amount and 95% of it happens in the bath tub. It's the only place where I can just relax and focus and not get distracted by other shit.

He was making reading in the bath sound far more difficult than it really is. That scene made me wonder if S. Craig Zahler is also a bath reader.

Even though I think the troglodytes were very good villains, I find the whole concept of them a little silly. We're supposed to believe this tribe of cannibalistic indigenous people are still around in the 1890s? They made the world so authentic, yet they have these literally monstrous villains with tusks and signal devises inserted into their windpipes. They don't have a name or a language? Wtf, do they not speak? Is there any group of people in history without their own spoken language? I guess it doesn't bother me enough to lower my opinion of the movie, because like I said I did really like the way they were used in the film.

Mmm, yeah, it may have been somewhat unrealistic--especially the part about having no language--but I didn't find it too unbelievable that in a time before the motorcar there was still a tiny tribe out there in the remote wilderness that was still doing its own thing. I mean, even today in 2017 there are something like 60 uncontacted tribes in the Amazon.

 

[Guestx]

Chicory, for example is a fascinating character to me. He appears to be old, decrepit even, slow, people call him dumb, and yet the sheriff hand selected him to be the deputy sheriff. He is the one that always notices things and makes "smart" observations, and he was also some sort of medic in the war. In addition to that we also know he likes to read books in the bathtub. So he is presented as weak, useless, and dumb but in reality the clues given indicate he most certainly is not.

Even Brooder acknowledges this when he goes to hand off the telescope. Chicory says something like, "You trust me with the German?" And Brooder responds, "I've seen you operate."

Chicory's a great character. They all are, especially Chicory, Brooder and the Sheriff. Only Wilson's character feels kind of generic.

Brooder joins the ranks of the posse as the killer. He wears a nice suit, has a eyeglass from Germany, and is very handy with a pistol, and he will kill anything that creeps around in the dark but he mocks God and then seems to pay for this in the scene with the thieves. He shoots two of them, Chicory tells him it was wrong and that one of the men he shot was carrying a crucifix and Brooder says then Jesus should have helped him. Sheriff Hunt, played by Kurt Russel then says, I don't think you want to draw His attention right now, then they all go to sleep. In the middle of the night dead men's friends come and are in the process of killing Brooder when Arthur wakes up and shoots one of them. Arthur being the only man in the group that appears religious and prays.

That's an interesting interpretation of that scene that I didn't consider. I took it more to be a confirmation that Brooder was right all along, and that those two Mexicans were indeed scouts for a larger party with bad intentions.

Kurt Russel's death kinda hit me in the feels and it was precisely because of all the "slow character building" that I actually was bummed out he took that death to those troglodyte savages. He had the best line of the movie when saying goodbye to Chicory, "Say goodbye to my wife, I'll say hello to yours." In the end he fired 3 shots, so I guess he avenged his own death by finishing off the tribe.

Yeah, it was kind of rough seeing him go out like that. He certainly was a noble character and deserved a better fate.

I very much enjoyed this film.

This isn't the first time you've seen it, is it?

 

[chickenluver]

Oh yeah, that letter Patrick Wilson's wife wanted him to read to her was really touching. Their relationship was very well established with minimal screen time.

Dude, one of the best lines in film history comes in those first five minutes:

"This is not the time for womanly imaginings."

Haha. The Sig Haige character said that right? I was glad he was in this, even for just a moment.

I have to disagree with you on this. I think if the tone of the film had been any darker then it wouldn't have been enjoyable watch. I feel like the balance was perfectly struck. Then again, I rarely get into really dark, depressing shit.

I'm all about it

Mmm, yeah, it may have been somewhat unrealistic--especially the part about having no language--but I didn't find it too unbelievable that in a time before the motorcar there was still a tiny tribe out there in the remote wilderness that was still doing its own thing. I mean, even today in 2017 there are something like 60 uncontacted tribes in the Amazon.

I guess the troglodytes can be explained because they lived in a remote area, the other natives avoided them, and the settlers would have no reason to have gone there. They also seemed to be dying out. That was some twisted shit with the females.

 

[MusterX]

I also want to add in this observation. It was weird to me that the troglodytes were making those weird sounds then I realized they embedded the whistles in their throats and it made me think of the old Aztec death whistles. Back in the day when the Spanish were invading the Aztecs were using death whistles which would intimidate their enemies. I'll let you judge for yourself if you think the writer for Bone Tomahawk took the idea from the Aztecs.

The sound is different but the idea is the same. You can imagine many angry Aztec warriors blowing these in the jungles as they approach.

 

[Guestx]

Haha. The Sig Haige character said that right? I was glad he was in this, even for just a moment.

Yeah, and every time I've watched this movie I've laughed at that shit. "This is not the time for womanly imaginings." Ha ha ha! I keep looking for a good time to use that shit.

I'm all about it

Psycho alert!

I guess the troglodytes can be explained because they lived in a remote area, the other natives avoided them, and the settlers would have no reason to have gone there. They also seemed to be dying out.

That's my thought.

That was some twisted shit with the females.

Yeah, it seems like the compassionate thing to do would be to put a cap in those bitches and end their misery.

 

[Guestx]

I also want to add in this observation. It was weird to me that the troglodytes were making those weird sounds then I realized they embedded the whistles in their throats and it made me think of the old Aztec death whistles. Back in the day when the Spanish were invading the Aztecs were using death whistles which would intimidate their enemies. I'll let you judge for yourself if you think the writer for Bone Tomahawk took the idea from the Aztecs.

The sound is different but the idea is the same. You can imagine many angry Aztec warriors blowing these in the jungles as they approach.

It would be terrifying to hear that shit from a bunch of hostile natives.

 

[chickenluver]

That's an interesting interpretation of that scene that I didn't consider. I took it more to be a confirmation that Brooder was right all along, and that those two Mexicans were indeed scouts for a larger party with bad intentions.

That's what I thought as well. I think he was wrong to shoot them there, because at time he couldn't have been sure they meant them harm, although with the benefit of hindsight it gets a little murky. It was rather odd how they crept up in the night and the other guy was hiding right behind the other.

 

[MusterX]

Even Brooder acknowledges this when he goes to hand off the telescope. Chicory says something like, "You trust me with the German?" And Brooder responds, "I've seen you operate."

Chicory's a great character. They all are, especially Chicory, Brooder and the Sheriff. Only Wilson's character feels kind of generic.



That's an interesting interpretation of that scene that I didn't consider. I took it more to be a confirmation that Brooder was right all along, and that those two Mexicans were indeed scouts for a larger party with bad intentions.



Yeah, it was kind of rough seeing him go out like that. He certainly was a noble character and deserved a better fate.



This isn't the first time you've seen it, is it?

For sure it was an odd thing to happen because Chicory felt the murders were unjust, Brooder mocked God, the Sheriff said you better not mock God right about now, and the next scene Brooder is getting stabbed in his sleep while Arthur, the only religious one among them, somehow wakes up to stop it. Brooder still ends up losing his horse which was like his friend.

Also interesting that during the most violent scene of the movie, we'll call it the "splitting of Rick", the sheriff says the Calvary will come avenge you, then later Chicory tells the sheriff I'll avenge you sheriff but in the end, the sheriff avenged himself by killing the final 3 members of the tribe, 3 gunshots.

Its a nice little film for sure. I also want to add that in addition to all the westerns you listed, I felt HBO's Westworld was absolutely stellar. One of the best season 1's I've ever seen. Not a traditional western but western nonetheless and yes I know you didn't get into Westworld but I think you made a mistake with that one.

 

[Guestx]

For sure it was an odd thing to happen because Chicory felt the murders were unjust, Brooder mocked God, the Sheriff said you better not mock God right about now, and the next scene Brooder is getting stabbed in his sleep while Arthur, the only religious one among them, somehow wakes up to stop it. Brooder still ends up losing his horse which was like his friend.

I took those statements to be more character-building--to show that Brooder is not a religious man, but the rest of the pack is--rather than something that has a direct impact on the plot. But your interpretation makes sense.

I also want to add that in addition to all the westerns you listed, I felt HBO's Westworld was absolutely stellar. One of the best season 1's I've ever seen. Not a traditional western but western nonetheless and yes I know you didn't get into Westworld but I think you made a mistake with that one.

When S2 of Westworld gets close I'll probably give season 1 another shot.

 

[chickenluver]

I'll let you judge for yourself if you think the writer for Bone Tomahawk took the idea from the Aztecs.

Seems very likely. Thanks for sharing that video.

Psycho alert!

Yeah, it seems like the compassionate thing to do would be to put a cap in those bitches and end their misery.

I thought the same thing. I guess they didn't want to make a lot of noise in case the last remaining troglodytes showed up. But then they blew the whistle again as they left so idk.

 

[BisexualMMA]

The pacing was great. This was the anti-Fate of the Furious. All the time that shit isn't blowing up is spent building suspense and developing the characters. And none of them act like the fucktards from Prometheus.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Kurt Russel's death kinda hit me in the feels and it was precisely because of all the "slow character building" that I actually was bummed out he took that death to those troglodyte savages. He had the best line of the movie when saying goodbye to Chicory, "Say goodbye to my wife, I'll say hello to yours." In the end he fired 3 shots, so I guess he avenged his own death by finishing off the tribe.

The three shots and then the silent pause for a possible call from the Indians was a nice touch.

I enjoyed the film for the most part, it's a 7/10 for me. I don't really have much to say outside of what's already been said here.

Chicory and Brooder were the stand out characters for me but Kurt Russel really felt flat to me and was less than insightful for the most part. Although it's too much to ask I was expecting a performance much like Tommy Lee Jones delivered in No Country for Old Men. Even re-reading that last sentence seems preposterous considering the differences in these films but I that's what I needed.

 

[Coolthulu]

Bone Tomahawk in one gif:

 

[Guestx]

The three shots and then the silent pause for a possible call from the Indians was a nice touch.

I enjoyed the film for the most part, it's a 7/10 for me. I don't really have much to say outside of what's already been said here.

Chicory and Brooder were the stand out characters for me but Kurt Russel really felt flat to me and was less than insightful for the most part. Although it's too much to ask I was expecting a performance much like Tommy Lee Jones delivered in No Country for Old Men. Even re-reading that last sentence seems preposterous considering the differences in these films but I that's what I needed.

Sounds like you weren't too impressed. I'm surprised you're even giving it a 7/10.

 

[chickenluver]

I felt HBO's Westworld was absolutely stellar. One of the best season 1's I've ever seen. Not a traditional western but western nonetheless and yes I know you didn't get into Westworld but I think you made a mistake with that one.

I liked it. There were some plot reveals that I wasn't crazy about. It also seemed like there were multiple huge plot reveals all in the last episode, it was a little overwhelming. Although I binged the whole season in only 2 days without taking any time to process what I was watching, so I'm sure that affected my take on it. Really good season though. Anthony Hopkins, Evan Rachel Wood, Thandie Newton, Ed Harris, and Jeffrey Wright absolutely killed it, everyone of them.

Did you know HBO wants 7 seasons? What's crazy is that after I watched the finale I had the weirdest feeling like the whole season seemed like an introduction or prelude, and now that they've gotten through it they can begin the real show, and then I found an interview with Evan Rachel Wood where she stated she felt the exact same thing.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

Sounds like you weren't too impressed. I'm surprised you're even giving it a 7/10.

No, it was definitively in that range.

I needed something, illogically, that just wasn't there and really isn't there normally. But we're dealing in art not reality; this film just makes me want to re-watch No Country for Old Men.

 

[MusterX]

According to IMDB, its an 5.68 with 249 westerns viewed.

But westerns is a genre that I tend to have an affinity for.

Could have sworn there were more...

In comparison to the ones you mentioned.

6.5
Slow West

7
Yuma, Appolosa, Jesse James, Hateful 8, Homesman

7.5
Django, The Revenant

8
True Grit

9
Tombstone



It's a bit more on the traditional side.

It is unusual sort of like Tarantino's Hateful 8 is, in that despite the characters being in the wild, isolated frontiers -- all manners of nationalities and wordly eccentrics have managed to show up in the excact same spot and time to partake in the story. Postmodern hulabalo, basically.

Bruh, you talk about westerns without mentioning your rating for this. That will tell me all I need to know.

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