SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Let's pick the Week 128 movie!

[Tufts]

Ninjas!

 

[Tufts]

Not sure what you mean by immature. If you're saying Res Dogs and True Romance hold no appeal for adults then I'll disagree. Kill Bills would be my next favorite stuff by him. Jackie, Death Proof, and Django are the only ones that didn't entertain me much. It's not like I'm saying post Pulp Fiction films suck. They just weren't the amazing experiences that Dogs and Fiction were at the time.

I agree. I had never seen anything quite like those two films before....was a lil disappointed by everything that came after....

 

[Coolthulu]

Deep Cover

 

[europe1]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

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Final score. 7 votes for 5 Element Ninjas. 6 for Deep Cover. And 2 for Race with the Devil! Not bad for a movie that I switched in at the last second because I was still on my adrenaline high following UFC 229! I abstained from voting, being the Nominator and all. So we're heading into Chang Cheh territory for the very first time! Time to show you grasshoppers what the textbook definition of Classic Kung Fu is!

Members: @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @FrontNakedChoke @AndersonsFoot @Tufts @Coolthulu @Yotsuya @jei @LHWBelt @moreorless87 @ArtemV @Bullitt68 @GSPSAKU @HenryFlower @Rimbaud82 @Deus Ex Machina

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[MusterX]

Why would you abstain from voting because you are the nominator? Is that something new.

Anyway, on to Five Fiery Elemental Ninjitsu's.

 

[sickc0d3r]

How very disappointing. You have all equally earned this.

Its Five Element Ninjas, not 5 Elemental Ninjas, not Five Elemental Ninjas, not Fire Elemental Ninjas, and because of this I now have to vote for Five Element Ninjas.

lol

 

[europe1]

Why would you abstain from voting because you are the nominator? Is that something new.

Nah I just wanted to watch all 3 (and all 4) movies so I had no strong horse in this race. Better to leave others to decide.

 

[ArtemV]

My laptop is currently broken... guess i will have to watch this on my mobile...

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

My laptop is currently broken... guess i will have to watch this on my mobile...

That's the "can do" spirit I like.

 

[europe1]

Why would you abstain from voting because you are the nominator? Is that something new.

Anyway, on to Five Fiery Elemental Ninjitsu's.

Also, don't think I didn't notice you voting against Race with the Devil, Mr MusterX!

I know where you live! I know you fear the secret that movie would expose about your home! You can't hide the truth from me!

 

[MusterX]

Also, don't think I didn't notice you voting against Race with the Devil, Mr MusterX!

I know where you live! I know you fear the secret that movie would expose about your home! You can't hide the truth from me!

Race with the Devil would have been good because its another Satanist movie and we recently watched Eyes Wide Shut and Hereditary. It was a problematic vote for me though because as I've stated in the past, I grew up watching "Kung Fu" movies. Almost every weekend I used to watch a thing called Blackbelt Theater where there was a featured Kung Fu movie.

 

[europe1]

Race with the Devil would have been good because its another Satanist movie and we recently watched Eyes Wide Shut and Hereditary. It was a problematic vote for me though because as I've stated in the past, I grew up watching "Kung Fu" movies. Almost every weekend I used to watch a thing called Blackbelt Theater where there was a featured Kung Fu movie.

Alright, alright.... Texas secret will remain buried.... for now!!!

 

[MusterX]

Alright, alright.... Texas secret will remain buried.... for now!!!

 

[HenryFlower]

fuck. yes.

 

[Bullitt68]

I still remember exactly where I was when E! show a preview on its coming attractions segment. I knew I had to see it. Then it came to the film festival and I was like...

QT was supposed to be there but they got a second screening somewhere (as I recall being told) and he attended that one. We got Lawrence Bender.

Long Hair Yuppie-Scum ain't no substitute.

It's one of the most iconic synchronizations ever. It's flawless and hard hitting. QT hasn't even equaled it, let alone surpassed it. But yeah, good job impressing the teach.

She already knew I was a "movie guy," though I'm sure she would've preferred learning that about me differently than she did. During an earlier section of that class on the Roman Empire, she screened Spartacus. Fresh into my Kubrick mania at the time, I was ecstatic. Unbeknownst to me, however, she was planning on fast-forwarding through the "irrelevant" bits so she could get through the 3-hour-plus movie as quickly and efficiently as possible. I understand her logic, but, obviously, there's no such thing as an irrelevant bit in a Kubrick movie. So, in a dark and quiet room of 60 kids, at the moment during one of Jean Simmons' lines of dialogue to Kirk Douglas when the movie all of a sudden started fast-forwarding, I jumped up and yelled, on pure unthinking reflex, "Hey!" She paused the movie and, startled, asked, "What's wrong?" Still operating on reflex and not yet processing where I was and the context in which I was uttering these words, I responded, loudly and with judgment dripping off my words, "You can't fast-forward a Stanley Kubrick movie!"

She gave me one of these looks...

...and explained that we just weren't going to have time to watch the whole thing. I sat back down, resigned to the teacher's decree, but when she fast-forwarded the Douglas/Simmons reunion scene after the slave revolt, I was again operating on reflex and made an audible noise like I'd just been punched in the stomach. While it was fast-forwarding, she joked to the class, "Kyle really likes this movie, doesn't he?"

Yes, he does

I think all of those character flashbacks add to the charm. Sure, they aren't profound, but they take you out of the pressure cooker scenes and round out the characters. They play off the brilliance of the opening sequence around the breakfast table. In a way they need to be mundane.

The only flashbacks that worked unequivocally are Mr. Pink's escape and the preparation flashback with the name assignments and Mr. White and Mr. Orange scoping the place out. The latter in particular is fantastic and Harvey Keitel going over crowd control strategy is his best scene in the movie and probably my favorite scene from him in his entire career.



Every line from him in that scene is quotable, including, of course, that closing "I'm hungry; let's get a taco" line

As for NGE and Vic's scene, it reinforces Eddie's immaturity in a world dominated by his daddy.

Eh, the fact that he always refers to him as "Daddy" is all the information we need to know that Eddie's a juvenile Daddy's boy. The flashback doesn't reinforce that so much as it superfluously adds more to it. Likewise with Mr. Blonde's closeness with/loyalty to the family. Eddie's speech upon returning and finding Mr. Blonde's body conveys all of that information anyway. Plus...

The Orange story is good because it shows the premeditation and acting involved. Keeps attention on how that's the difference between life and death for Orange.

Do you think Mr Orange's character would have worked better without the flashback? Presenting him more as a mysteriously blank slate instead of the one we got?

...it may have enhanced the tension and made for more impactful "reveals" if we didn't know as much about everybody. Could you imagine realizing with Mr. Orange that he'd made a terrible miscalculation killing Mr. Blonde and far from saving himself and Marvin signed Marvin's death warrant and may have even signed his own?

That said, if this would've been Tarantino's operating procedure across the board, then, in response to your point, europe, not seeing Mr. Orange "get into character" may have precluded the same kind of investment in his plight that Tarantino manages to elicit (particularly in light of that Taxi Driver-esque pep talk he gives himself in the mirror before going down to meet the gang - which, incidentally, is the scene responsible for my propensity to close doors with a finger gun the way Mr. Orange closes the door before leaving to give himself that pep talk ).

Just because I went to film school because I wanted to be Tarantino doesn't mean that I'm going to sit here and pretend that I could've done a better job writing that script. I'm just saying that by and large the flashbacks seemed to hurt more than they helped. Whether that's because there shouldn't have been flashbacks and there should've been more of a mystery element like The Hateful Eight or because the flashbacks should've been different or not as numerous, or what have you, I don't know. I just think that a movie that's that short and that intense shouldn't drag as much as Reservoir Dogs does and that the drag in the pacing is because of the patchy (and IMO dull and for the most part unnecessary) flashbacks breaking shit up. But, just to be clear, every second spent in that warehouse is 10/10 awesomeness. I'm not trying to shit on the movie at all. Just pointing out what IMO holds an awesome movie back from being even more awesome.

I've never looked at it that way. Hmmmmm.

My thoughts going in are that none of the Hateful Eight characters are as likable is Roth, Madsen, Keitel, Buscemi, or Penn. Not sure there's one likable character in Hateful Eight. Kinda like how The Godfather II was great as a movie but lacked the charm of The Godfather.

We may on the whole have similar aesthetic sensibilities, but I think the way that we apply "likable" - which I understand to convey something akin to "I would like to hang out with them," as opposed to "interesting," which I understand to convey something akin to "I like watching them act and interact with others" - to characters will be VERY different. If I were to count up all the likable characters in Tarantino's entire filmography, I could do it with one hand and I'd still have some fingers to spare. In Reservoir Dogs, it's just Mr. Pink; in Pulp Fiction, it's just Mr. Wolf; and in Kill Bill, it's just The Bride. All of his characters are interesting if not fascinating, but likable? Not in my book.

The same goes for The Godfather/The Godfather II. The only likable character in my book is Vito, but the young Vito of the sequel, not so much the old one of the original.

He's no jackass. He's just naive. Sorry you couldn't relate to being lonely, or driven by pussy, or being a geek about dumb shit like comic books or karate flicks (oh wait!).

I'm actually glad you not only said all this but even used the word "geek," because it allows me to explain: In my book, "geek" applies to conduct/behavior while "nerd" applies to mindset/interests. Every geek is a nerd, but not every nerd is a geek. Clarence is absolutely a geek. Geeks tell girls they're trying to pick up that they'd fuck Elvis. Geeks have no game, they have no sense of themselves, their surroundings, how to act in social settings, etc. Nerds, on the other hand, can mask that shit. Nerds are basically functional geeks. A nerd can pick up a girl if he wants to, knows how to act in a given social environment...he'd just rather be reading a comic book or watching a movie.

This explains why I don't relate to Clarence. He's a geek. I'm a nerd. He's a stupid jackass who hatches the "brilliant" scheme of trying to assassinate a drug dealer and then driving cross-country with his stolen coke to sell it in Hollywood because a hooker let him fuck her and he's like a teenager on a post-virginity high. I'm a reasonable and fairly intelligent nerd who knows that that's a terrible idea that only a jackass geek would come up with

I've also never been described as being "driven by pussy." And I'm proud of that fact. Not only do I have self-control, but, if need be, I can be a sex camel.

Check out Tom's coked-up sex tape and let me know how that rates.

<{CMPALM}>

@Bullitt68

I don't remember the first time I saw that, but I have seen it before. The funniest part of that particular video is how they identify Tarantino as if anyone who's even remotely familiar with him and what he looks like would be unable to spot him

Speaking of Tarantino and Elvis: Do you subscribe to the Pulp Fiction theory of the gold "object" in Marsellus' suitcase being Elvis' gold suit?

I don’t know much about hackers and stuff, but I thought Blackhat handled the subject embarrasingly bad. Miami Vice I loved on big screen, but it didn’t hold up as well on second viewing.

I've either never even managed to finish Miami Vice because I thought it was so bad or I thought it was so bad that I don't even remember finishing it. Either way, I thought it was terrible. As for Blackhat, I don't know much about hackers and stuff, either, but I thought the movie was pretty damn good on the whole and for sure vastly superior to Miami Vice (and also better than The Keep if not also Thief, which a lot of people dig but of which I'm not particularly fond).

One of his best. It’s so compact, Cruise is on fire and I love the urban digicinematography look.

Good guestion. Maybe Donald Westlake, but he might be too weak writer regarding dialogue and Tarantino would just go on another rampage on that department. Charles Willeford doesn’t have that many books with big enough character gallery for a QT movie, but he’s a candidate. Leonard is GOAT QT material naturally. Some graphic book adaptation maybe or he could work with another screen writer. Doing Star Trek is interesting also, because he’ll have some limits regarding the characters and the world.

Sci-fi is the only genre that I don't think would be at all hospitable to his style. I'd rather see a Tarantino romcom than a Tarantino sci-fi movie.

I wouldn’t mind if he wrote a script for someone else to direct again

Could you imagine Tarantino writing and Scorsese directing a new crime movie?

While not fancying himself a horror director, he does have a schlocky nature that would lend itself well.

Didn't he say something after Django or The Hateful Eight about considering making a horror movie? That would be really fucking cool. Like I said, I'll be happy with anything that isn't a Western and preferably something that isn't set in the past. But a Tarantino horror movie couldn't possibly not be awesome.

I'm very curious to see how he handles the Polanski angle btw.

Most people don't know this, but both Bruce Lee and Steve McQueen - friends with each other and both friends with Jay Sebring (and, in Bruce's case, a former colleague of Sharon Tate's and Roman Polanski's personal martial arts instructor) - had standing invitations that night. And after it happened, as Matt Polly chronicles in his recent Bruce Lee biography, Polanski actually entertained for a brief moment a suspicion about Bruce possibly being involved since they'd found a pair of glasses at the scene and Bruce mentioned to him that he needed a new pair of glasses. Polanski investigated and Bruce had a different prescription, but could you imagine a Tarantino-style pressure-cooker scene with Roman Polanski wondering if Bruce Lee murdered his wife

Wait... did Nurmi just admit that his weakness is..... love?

Now that's some Romantic Comedy shit right there.

The Eagle Returns to the Nest. Starring Khabib Nurmagomedov and Emma Stone. Written and directed by Rob Reiner. About a spunky girl who has just what it takes to melt an eagle's heart.

How about I just give you the mathematical formula

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

​

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I'm sad that I don't get to give The Fish a second chance with a Deep Cover rewatch, but I can't be too mad about rewatching some Chang Cheh

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I'm just saying that by and large the flashbacks seemed to hurt more than they helped.

I guess I just like the quirkiness they add. No other films were doing those like character piece flashbacks with big old captions saying "Mr. ...". It's part of what let you know you were in for something different. I'm sure they could have been better in execution, but conceptually they're a great addition.

We may on the whole have similar aesthetic sensibilities, but I think the way that we apply "likable" - which I understand to convey something akin to "I would like to hang out with them," as opposed to "interesting," which I understand to convey something akin to "I like watching them act and interact with others" - to characters will be VERY different. If I were to count up all the likable characters in Tarantino's entire filmography, I could do it with one hand and I'd still have some fingers to spare. In Reservoir Dogs, it's just Mr. Pink; in Pulp Fiction, it's just Mr. Wolf; and in Kill Bill, it's just The Bride. All of his characters are interesting if not fascinating, but likable? Not in my book.

The same goes for The Godfather/The Godfather II. The only likable character in my book is Vito, but the young Vito of the sequel, not so much the old one of the original.

I'm sure I agree with you you differentiate, but the first two Godfathers are a perfect example. Loved the first and liked a number of characters, didn't like the second and didn't like any of the characters.

I've also never been described as being "driven by pussy." And I'm proud of that fact. Not only do I have self-control, but, if need be, I can be a sex camel.

We've pinpointed the fundamental difference between our perspectives. Pussy's launched 1000 ships, or so I've heard.

Speaking of Tarantino and Elvis: Do you subscribe to the Pulp Fiction theory of the gold "object" in Marsellus' suitcase being Elvis' gold suit?

I was totally on board with the Marsellus' soul theory and then QT squashed it. Pretty sure he said enough to lead me to believe it wasn't really ever anything other than a gimmick to add intrigue.

Didn't he say something after Django or The Hateful Eight about considering making a horror movie?

Thought he said he didn't think he could do the genre justice so he wouldn't be doing one.

 

[Yotsuya]

Sci-fi is the only genre that I don't think would be at all hospitable to his style. I'd rather see a Tarantino romcom than a Tarantino sci-fi movie.

I’m pretty sure he would make it more towards the tv series format, which was very dialogue heavy. I mean, how about the classical Mexican standoff between Enterprise and a Klingon Bird-of-Prey by Tarantino for example

Could you imagine Tarantino writing and Scorsese directing a new crime movie?

Could be interesting. Personally I’d prefer someone with sense of humor. Maybe Walter Hill because The Assignment was such a mofo.

Most people don't know this, but both Bruce Lee and Steve McQueen - friends with each other and both friends with Jay Sebring (and, in Bruce's case, a former colleague of Sharon Tate's and Roman Polanski's personal martial arts instructor) - had standing invitations that night. And after it happened, as Matt Polly chronicles in his recent Bruce Lee biography, Polanski actually entertained for a brief moment a suspicion about Bruce possibly being involved since they'd found a pair of glasses at the scene and Bruce mentioned to him that he needed a new pair of glasses. Polanski investigated and Bruce had a different prescription, but could you imagine a Tarantino-style pressure-cooker scene with Roman Polanski wondering if Bruce Lee murdered his wife

I think I can see this in my head. Polanski wandering in Chinatown at night mad with grief and paranoia and asking around who could teach him the touch of death technique so he could avenge Sharon’s death!

 

[Yotsuya]

Deep Cover (1992)

Criterion will release this on bluray: https://www.criterion.com/films/31499-deep-cover

Did not see that coming.