Serious Movie Discussion XXXVI

[Speakerbox]

But abstract matters in life can only be breached well in abstract ways, things like societal residue, existential angst, and absurdism. These things have been explored at length since Joyce in literature in abstract fashion, and films are just getting caught up. I think it's quite presumptuous to expect films dealing with absurdism and post-modern subjects to present themselves in easily digestible and "entertaining" ways. If there was no experimental cinema, cinema wouldn't evolve, and non-evolving is death to an artistic medium.

Sometimes style and concept take over something shallow like delivering a message well. Art should be more of a personal exorcism that a struggle to give consumers a message in the simplest forms possible. I don't know, it just seems cheap to reduce serious themes to easily accessible 90 minute films with contrived editing and easily-likable elements. Imagine if Pynchon wrote books like Stephen King did, all his ideas and execution of them would be wasted.

anyway i watched:

a pretty good adaption of the coward play, with some impressive dialogue, but ultimately an innocuous and inconsequential farce, still recommended however. I use criticker.com to rank and keep track of the films I've watched so I'll start posting my criticker scores. 69/100

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

But abstract matters in life can only be breached well in abstract ways, things like societal residue, existential angst, and absurdism. These things have been explored at length since Joyce in literature in abstract fashion, and films are just getting caught up. I think it's quite presumptuous to expect films dealing with absurdism and post-modern subjects to present themselves in easily digestible and "entertaining" ways. If there was no experimental cinema, cinema wouldn't evolve, and non-evolving is death to an artistic medium.

Sometimes style and concept take over something shallow like delivering a message well. Art should be more of a personal exorcism that a struggle to give consumers a message in the simplest forms possible. I don't know, it just seems cheap to reduce serious themes to easily accessible 90 minute films with contrived editing and easily-likable elements. Imagine if Pynchon wrote books like Stephen King did, all his ideas and execution of them would be wasted.

i dont expect anything of anyone.

art should be whatever the fuck it wants to be, but i get to judge it. I dont think every artist needs to be some dramatic guy in a scarf that needs to purge. I play guitar and write music. My approach is cerebral, not emotional.

I'll tell you what i think is cheap. Excusing yourself of the responsibility to explore serious themes with any amount of clarity. Using abstraction as an excuse to not progress.

What I don't think is cheap is to explore serious themes by creating an original, coherent story and basing it around them. I think that's more difficult, more creative, and I think it forces you to make actual claims about said themes. I think it reaches more people. I think it takes someone much more thoughtful to make such a film than a guy that's indulging in hopes of catharsis.

But like I said before... the main thing is, I watch movies because I think it's an enjoyable way to spend 2 hours. Bergman exorcizing his shit that I reconciled when I was a boy is just pathetic to me. I don't like it. I like being told a captivating story.

 

[Speakerbox]

Then you are being selective with the art of cinema, and not holding it to the same standards as the rest of the arts. You certainly wouldn't expect an abstract painting to tell a captivating story, and holding say, Eraserhead, to that standard seems self-centered. I think the association of film with commercial success and entertainment has tainted its integrity as an artistic medium in western culture, which is why the greatest achievements in film look silly compared to the achievements of Beckett or Huysmans or Gaddis in literature, people just expect to be entertained rather than challenged and their mind expanded beyond comfortable means, hence why films are silly compared to higher forms of art for now, regrettably.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

i dont see film as a lesser art form. I see it as one of the most difficult and meticulous art forms. I don't see abstract as being more artistic either. I don't see emotion as being necessary to art.

I think people's idea of what art is has become confused. Art doesn't need to be serious or dire. Kitsch is fine. Entertainment is one of the most important things in all art forms. It's for people to experience as much as it is for creators to create.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

And I think your definition of "entertaining" is confused. I can watch something like Dear Zachary and feel awful at the end. I'm still entertained by the experience.

I can watch Judgment at Nuremberg or M and be entertained BECAUSE i'm being intellectually or morally challenged. I just dont get anything out of the kinds of movies you like. I've watched a decent amount of them too. I've taken surrealist literature courses in college...I understand what they're going for. They just suck IMO.

And I never said I like abstract paintings. I don't. I even said I think the two should be treated as if they're different mediums altogether.

 

[Ricky13]

I would fit this top 25 thing? OP says "regulars". I've only posted for a couple threads here. And if yes, there's a deadline?

 

[HuntersCreed]

We updating top 25? I say expand it to 50.

 

[Spawned_Fighter]

I would fit this top 25 thing? OP says "regulars". I've only posted for a couple threads here. And if yes, there's a deadline?

i lurk this thread all the time and youd def be included.

-as for the smd list, i say its a good thing to give it a change. list cant be concrete

 

[SoulBrotherNo1]

Impossible for me to make a top25, as I feel like I havent seen enough, plus this thing might change by day. On any given day any of these films can jump to the top3. Only the top2 that are pretty much fixed.


1.) Tree of Life

2.) Fight Club

3.) Mulholland Drive

4.) Boogie Nights

5.) Taxi Driver

6.) Stalker

7.) Brazil

8.) Bicycle Thieves

9.) There Will Be Blood

(this is when things get tough...)

10.) Persona

11.) One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest

12.) Goodfellas

13.) Million Dollar Baby

14.) 2001: A Space Odyssey

15.) Gladiator (childhood favourite)

16.) City of God

17.) Only God Forgives

18.) The Great Beauty (new entry, we will see how it holds up)

19.) Schindler's List

20.) Godfather

21.) Shame

22.) Kill Bill vol.2 (+Tarantino in general, I really loved Django as well)

23.) Une femme Est Une Femme (+Godard in general)

24.) The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (+Leone in General)

25.) Viridiana, or Amelie....okay..lets go with the former

There are about 100 others I feel bad about to leave off...and I havent even seen many films compared to you guys.

 

[edco76]

I would fit this top 25 thing? OP says "regulars". I've only posted for a couple threads here. And if yes, there's a deadline?

Probably. PM Bullitt and tell him how many Katherine Hepburne movies youve seen. He may let you. Or give you a homework assignment depending on the answer. Maybe work into the convo how much you love Steven Segal.

 

[Speakerbox]

We updating top 25? I say expand it to 50.

Man, a top 50 is a tough thing to come up with. Not impossible.

 

[Francis Rossi]

Top 25? I'm not really a regular, but I pop up from time to time, and have done for a while.

 

[Ricky13]

Probably. PM Bullitt and tell him how many Katherine Hepburne movies youve seen. He may let you. Or give you a homework assignment depending on the answer. Maybe work into the convo how much you love Steven Segal.

See, I know you're being facetious but HOW IS THAT HELPING!

Anyway, I think I'm screwed anyway. My list has no Kubrick, no Hepburn, only one Hitch film, and only one De Niro film (in a SUPPORTING act, no less), no Scorcese and no Tarantino.

Here goes. Flem, you can include mine if I'm legit.

1) Heat
2) Man on Wire
3) High Fidelity
4) The Big Lebowski
5) Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
6) Rope
7) Back to the Future
8) Dog Day Afternoon
9) Take Shelter
10) Die Hard
11) 12 Angry Men
13) Unforgiven
14) The Princess Bride
15) Blade Runner
16) The Godfather: Part II
17) Lost in Translation
18) Rosemary's Baby
19) The Third Man
20) Blood Simple
21) For a Few Dollars More
22) Apocalypse Now
23) The Lives of Others
24) First Blood
25) Office Space

Also, just saw two more movies from 2013.

Fruitvale Station was OK. Close to not very good. All been done and too heavy-handed. It's a good performance from Michael B. Jordan but not great. Honestly, the film annoyed me a little bit. It's not a bad movie, but more than anything it's a type of film I don't care for, and I'm constantly on the lookout for an agenda, even if it's fairly balanced.

Sorry Soulbrother, because I just saw this in your list, but I just watched The Great Beauty and it just made me viciously angry. I barely made it through it. I really really disliked it. 8 1/2 was a million times better and I really didn't even care for 8 1/2. The best thing was the naked women, but even they weren't THAT good looking. I didn't know it was surrealist before watching it. Big mistake. I have a hard enough time with the ones that are established greats.

Also, it made me hate whatever surrealist ones I've seen even more. Now I think I actually hate Persona, and whatever I've seen by Tarkovsky I officially have a vituperative dislike for. I fear I'm hating them more with time than liking them.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

We updating top 25? I say expand it to 50.

i couldnt even do 25 when I tried just now. I'm thinking shrinking it down to 20 would be better.

 

[SoulBrotherNo1]

Sorry Soulbrother, because I just saw this in your list, but I just watched The Great Beauty and it just made me viciously angry. I barely made it through it. I really really disliked it. 8 1/2 was a million times better and I really didn't even care for 8 1/2. The best thing was the naked women, but even they weren't THAT good looking. I didn't know it was surrealist before watching it. Big mistake. I have a hard enough time with the ones that are established greats.

I see a connection between this,and what you previously said that you need a strong story, cause La Grande Bellazza doesnt have one.

I like almost everything that I have seen from your list though, I have finished Back To The Future after I got through the overwhelming 80sness of it. Wont be one of my favourites, but it was pretty good. Wanna be friends?

 

[theskza]

Flem, how you doing this?

 

[HuntersCreed]

i couldnt even do 25 when I tried just now. I'm thinking shrinking it down to 20 would be better.

It's a collective of our favorites so even if we all did 25 the movies w/ the most mentions would expand the list anyways as long as 50 or more movies were mentioned in our lists as a whole. Am I making any sense here?

 

[Speakerbox]

As long as there are enough people submitting lists, that would work. Otherwise you'd end up with movies in the 40-50 section with like 2 or mentions at most.

 

[Sexy]

You guys might like this:

A map that shows the most popular movie set in each U.S. state

 

[SiKnSiN]

Recently watched Blue is the Warmest Colour. Will comment on the movie later, but just wanted to say I was blown away by Ad