I'd never heard this before, and frankly, I don't find it even a little plausible (first, because Phil was way too big to give a shit about what two knuckleheads with a cartoon show he'd never heard of were doing on the red carpet, and second, because Phil actually has a great sense of humor and probably would've found it funny). In any event, I've spent the last half hour going through pages and pages of Google search results and all I've found are people saying Phil talked shit about them but nobody actually providing any proof. There's even a Reddit thread where people realize over the course of it that nobody has any evidence nor actually recalls reading/hearing Phil say anything. All my Google searching found were additional instances, before and after the Oscars, of Trey talking shit about Phil.
So, you don't find it the least bit plausible, yet you spent half an hour googling it... You must really want to prove me wrong, but alas, to no avail, your efforts were for naught.
It was 17 years ago, you're not going to find a quote online.
Phil was competing against them for the Oscar. It's safe to assume that he was asked about his competition, and probably about South Park in particular since the song was controversial. I don't find it the least bit hard to believe that he could've said something negative about the show. What makes you think Parker and Stone are lying? Later in this post you say of Parker and Stone "they don't mince words"... but here they do?
There are a lot of things that Phil Collins says that don't get entered online for posterity. He could've said something to them in private, or shot them a dirty look. Maybe he talked shit about them to another celebrity and it came back to them. The fact that you think Phil Collins is incapable of saying something bad about someone shows your bias in all it's glory... Did you see what his ex-wife had to say about him?
Anyways, the dresses say it all to me. South Park didn't expect to win the award, they think the whole celebrity culture/award show/ego-fest thing is stupid, hence their outfits. Phil was clearly very moved by winning his award, so I don't believe he shared Trey and Matt's sentiment towards the awards. Maybe he does have a good sense of humour but he doesn't think the academy, celebrities, and fashion are a joke... so why would he get (or appreciate) the joke? That's irrelevant anyways
In a way, Family Guy is actually more radical than South Park. Seth MacFarlane has taken the Larry David Seinfeld credo "no hugging, no learning" to an even greater extreme. Like the Season 2 episode "He's Too Sexy for His Fat." At the end, Lois says, "Well, Peter, I guess you learned a valuable lesson," to which Peter replies, "Nope." The end. No long moral/political speeches meant to lift up to a higher plane a town full of people so fucking stupid that they keep acting just as retarded every week as the week before when a group of 9-year-olds were telling them how to better their lives.
Family Guy is more radical, with their interchangeable-jokes and lazy approach to writing. I think comparing them to Seinfeld is totally off-base. Yes they're both shows about nothing but the humour in Seinfeld always relates to the story in the episode, however loose the story is. Larry David is great when it comes to bringing the story full-circle and tying everything together at the end.
There's no way for that not to sound harsh, but I do want to stress the point that, for as brilliant as the satire can be on South Park - and I should mention that I have now seen every episode ever made from beginning to end and consider this most recent season BY FAR the most brilliant and the funniest, yet the criticism I'm about to make applies just as much to this last amazing season as to earlier, not-so-amazing seasons - the internal logic of the show makes absolutely no fucking sense. Unless the residents of South Park are literally retarded, the depth of their stupidity - especially when juxtaposed with the lucidity and eloquence of the little kids - is such that it's hard for me to reconcile the lofty ambitions of the show with such basic incoherence and silliness.
Now we're at the meat of the problem here... What you say "makes absolutely no fucking sense", makes 100% perfect sense to me and it's the main thing that makes the show so fucking amazing to me...
It's not easy to explain, at all.
I mentioned that the South Park-Family Guy episode was the exception to the rule. Kyle and Stan represent Matt and Trey (the sane ones, the left wing) and Cartman represents the right/the far right/the media. Well, the townspeople represent the ignorant masses, the kind of people who believe what they hear on the news, who go to church, raise the flag and fallow the laws. It's satire.
Judd: Who are these characters based on? How about Trey first.
Trey: Roughly, I’m sort of Stan and Matt’s sort of Kyle, and we’re both sort of Cartman in a lot of ways. I’m really fat, and Matt’s racist, so together we’re Cartman. Everybody else is a fragment of a person that we know in some way or whatever.
http://www.writeonjudd.com/portfolio/interview-with-south-park-creators-matt-stone-and-trey-parker/
Clearly they're joking about Cartman, neither of them are really fat, or racist. But America is the fattest nation, and racism is still a HUGE issue in America, which should tell you who they really base Cartman on, since he's the only character that's not a fragment of of a person they know.
In the episode where Chef is trying to change the racist flag, and all the dummies on the news are just repeating what they're told, they all say "yeah the flag is racist, but it's history"... that's the kind of shit you see on the news all the time. That's how the media portray issues. they make them seem complex when really the issue is as "black and white" as they come, pun intended. Those people that repeat what they're told and can't make a decision even though it's so obvious... they are the townspeople. To someone like Chef, it's ridiculous that they can't see their own hypocrisy... There'an NFL team called the "Redskins"... How about I start a basketball team and call them the Blackskins... it's "retarded" that people don't see how racist that name is.
It's not that Kyle and Stan are smarter than everyone else, they're just more informed, they make the effort, they do the research, they don't watch the news or read the newspapers either, they form their own opinions. The rest of the characters are ignorant and indifferent to any topic, unless it's on the news, and then they just pick one of two sides. You don't think masses of people do that in real life? No one has the time to research everything for themselves, and most don't bother to research at all.
Have you seen the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore? It kind of explains things. It's a documentary about two high school kids in Littleton, Colorado...(where Matt Stone grew up. South Park is partially based on that town) The kids were a couple of "rejects" that liked metal and video games, the bullies picked on them, the girls ignored them, everyone judged them, they were outcasts, they had no future (or so they thought) so they shot up their high school and then killed themselves.
Here's how the media covered the story.
They blame the parents, heavy metal, violent movies, South Park, video games, television, entertainment, cartoons, Satan, society, toy guns, drugs, but mostly Marilyn Manson was blamed. The killers listened to Marilyn Manson... The killers left suicide notes... they did it because the kids at school "picked on them, chose not to accept them, and treated them like they weren't worth their time" He also blames the teachers for allowing it to happen, as well as parents that raise bullies and socially-aspirant, geek-shunning ass-holes.
Those TV networks that put out that news in all it's scapegoating glory, also make most of their money from TV shows, and often the same people who own the networks own or have their hands in movie studios as well. That's Hollywood, they're part of the media as well, blaming South Park and Marilyn Manson instead of society, that same society whom the media have huge influence over... that's not just a coincidence. And Phil Collins is working for one of the biggest and most deceptive of all the companies, Disney... I don't share your sympathy towards him over South Park using him to get back at the academy. Phil didn't mind the academy using him to get back at South Park for trashing them and their values.
Remember what the point of Bigger, Longer, Uncut was... Cartman overcomes Saddam by swearing at the end... Their point was violence is worse than swearing so let them swear on their show you uncle-fucking bastards. Let all shows swear. South Park is fighting for a better world, they're trying to tear down the mass of ignorance surrounding "foul language" They hate censors with a passion. The academy ignoring the logic of their song is what pissed them off. They were fighting to change the perception of foul language, yet they lost because the song had foul language in it... All they're work was for nothing, even though kids are smart enough to see it, the adults aren't. Phil is not the issue to them. They have much bigger targets than Phil, lmao.
Funny that no one in the media chose to examine the topics that the kids listed, they all chose to make up their own scapegoats to blame, as a way to further their own ignorant political beliefs. Those media members are the townspeople in South Park. You see those protesters (in that clip) the ones that have no clue what Manson represents but are protesting him... they're the townspeople. The people who voted George W. Bush back into office, those are the townspeople. Ignorant and naive. The people who can't find their own country on a map, The academy, Tom Cruise, Scientologists, people who vote, they're the town. South Park is symbolic satire, you can't just take it literally.
I haven't seen it in 10-15 years but In the documentary Moore interviews and plays clips from celebrities and members of the media. He asks them what advice they would've given to the Columbine killers if they could've talked to them before it all happened. Matt Stone gave the best advice out of everyone. Marilyn Manson was the only one intelligent enough to realize that the kids didn't need advice, they needed validation. The scapegoats are smarter and more-righteous than the finger-pointers. The point of the documentary being that the counter-culture (which kids follow) raises smarter people than mainstream culture, lead by a media owned by billionaires (do the research, it's true) with it's rigid rules that one must adhere to or face social backlash.. South Park agree, even though they're not big fans of Moore, lol.
The song "Blame Canada" was a joke about how Americans always blame others for their problems, and never look in the mirror. It's about how they blame scapegoats instead of looking at the facts. It's a statement on America's ignorance. It's sung by the townspeople in South Park... they're ignorant protesters blaming foul language for the worlds problem while war is being waged around them, and amorality runs amok.
Family Guy, by contrast, is explicitly about a stupid man who who fights tooth-and-nail every last learning experience. Thus, the situations in which he finds himself have more internal coherence even if they don't aspire to same height of social commentary. And since Family Guy isn't trying to do what South Park tries to do, I'm not going to consider it a failure. It's just different. And, for me, it's significantly funnier.
I never said it was a failure. They do cover social topics, but if we're talking height of social commentary, it's not exactly penthouse material (pun intended) They did do the episode about seceding from the government, that was pretty cool. South Park covers topics that no else does like gentrification, NAMBLA, Scientology, country music exploiting 9/11 memories for financial gains... that's important work, and the fact that it's honest, responsible humour makes it that much funnier and enjoyable to me. It makes it humorous for me on multiple levels. While Seth is out schmoozing with a-list celebs, the boys from Colorado are pissing off anyone who tries to lower the bar even further, they don't care about stepping on toes.
I don't think Seth is a bad guy, not at all, American Dad showed his true feelings. I just think South Park is much better written, and Parker and Stone are using their power for a greater good, unlike Seth.
Why should South Park pay tribute to other artists like Seth does? South Park doesn't take inspiration from them.
Are you saying Peter's mistakes are a learning experience for the public... If so then is the general public really any less "retarded" than the townspeople in South Park. Is the public unaware that making your own helicopter that looks like you and then trying to fly it without any lessons is a bad idea?
Fill me in on some of the lessons Peter has taught you? I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.
Family Guy does 3-4 minute musical numbers, that they're just copying from movies/videos. They showed a Conway Twitty video for like 4 minutes straight, much to Twitty's dismay. That's the definition of lazy writing. The knee-scrape thing was funny the first time, but stretching jokes on for that long still, it's lost it's zip.
All of that said, I will say that the second half of
South Park is far superior to the first half. I didn't like Butters initially and I didn't get why they were giving him so much story time, but he grew on me to the point where "Butters' Bottom Bitch" is probably my favorite episode of the whole show ("Do you know what I am saying?"). I also really hope they keep up the serialization, as these last two seasons are MILES beyond anything that preceded them. All of the PC shit (anchored in the latest season by that
Ex Machina spoof) was both hilarious and incisive (if it weren't for all of the Randy side shit, "The Cissy" would've been my favorite as everything with Cartman in that one was killing me ["Suck my clit and balls"]) and the way they developed that storyline over the ten episodes was excellent.
As of right now,
South Park is operating on a smarter and funnier level than
Family Guy, but overall, when it comes to which show is funnier,
Family Guy is way out in front.
The Simpsons doesn't count because it predates
South Park. Trey and Matt respect and acknowledge the influence of
The Simpsons. That said, another reason they don't have a problem with
The Simpsons is because, and they've mentioned this in some of the behind-the-scenes shit I've watched, there have been so many staff changes that
The Simpsons at one point in time is not the same show as another time, and the shows that have been on during
South Park do not seem to threaten them as most everyone agrees (though I can't comment because I don't watch
The Simpsons) that they're long past their prime.
Family Guy, on the other hand, is a legit threat, so they're more aggressive towards the latter.
http://exclaim.ca/comedy/article/trey_parker_matt_stone-south_park_team
http://www.businessinsider.com/family-guy-writing-process-2014-9?IR=T
Those two don't mince words. They call a spade a spade, and they hate Seth and
Family Guy. Seth's response:
A perfect "hater's gonna hate" response
A perfect politician style answer from Seth. The long and the short of it being, they came up with one joke abut South Park, that wasn't good enough to tell. And another joke that would take 3 episodes to tell... sure
Again, Parker & Stone don't hate Family Guy or Seth, they just think his style of writing is much simpler than theirs, and they're right. Half the jokes on Family Guy have nothing to do with the plot/story. They're jokes that can be added to any scene/story anywhere. They tell a story (with no moral) and add in a bunch of jokes that aren't related to the story. Funny, yes. Great writing, no.
The real reason (imo) they didn't take many shots at the Simpsons because it was beautifully written. Mel Brooks was one of their main writers for crying out loud.
Family Guy has been through a ton of staff changes also. Seth says he's too busy to respond... He doesn't even write his own shows. South Park write their own video game scripts, that's how serious they take their job. They write every episode between the two of them. Those guys are work-horses, and they found the time, because they care... Seth is just passing the buck.
Is teaching a prerequisite for art? For good art or all art? And you said "anything special," so is it what art teaches or that art teaches? And "mindless masses," really? So liking Family Guy proves you're a mindless meat sack while liking South Park proves you're intelligent? And "mindless comedy" is no better than "mindless action movie" inasmuch as it proves nothing beyond the fact that the person hurling these insults has chosen not to apply their mind to what they're insulting.
I like Family Guy, try to keep up.
I'm arguing that South Park is much better written.
Look, 99% of people who have the kind of influence that Seth has, would at least choose one cause and try to do something good for the world. I'm not expecting him to lead a revolution here, but it's surprising that he doesn't use his platform for something bigger. That would be the responsible thing to do as a member of the human race and all, do you know what I am saying?
Teaching is not a pre-requisite for art, neither is a good story. Jackass is art, and it's hilarious, but it's not well-written, and it's not intelligent. (Sometimes the ideas are kind of clever, I suppose). Art has many forms. Again, I'm saying South Park is a superior art form, not that Family Guy isn't an art form, or that it's only aimed at morons... BUT South Park is aimed at both ignorant and informed people.
To me it's a little like comparing a really nice photograph of a Ferrari, with a beautiful impressionist painting. Both are art, but ones is art on multiple levels, which challenges you, and the other is just a picture that looks cool. South Park speaks to my sense of humour, and to my soul. Family Guy does the former, but not the latter.
I actually prefer American Dad to Family Guy. Seth can write properly, he just cheats in Family Guy, well he used to anyways. I'm pretty sure he doesn't write any of them anymore.
This part of your post is a perfect example of the arrogance and elitism that makes South Park (both its creators and its fans) look bad and Family Guy (both its creator and its fans) look good.
Arrogance and elitism? So having a message is arrogant and elitist and not having a message is good?
I'm going to assume that comment was in relation to the part you wrote above that, that you didn't even come close to understanding... which could be partially my fault. It's not an easy concept to explain. You speak of "Ivory towers of presumptuousness" from atop a mountain made of diamonds.
I think the problem is that you didn't get the Family Guy episode. Cartman is very clearly voicing the sentiments of Trey and Matt, who hate Family Guy just like Cartman and for precisely the reasons voiced by Cartman. Kyle, meanwhile, serves as the South Park fan who also likes Family Guy (part of why Trey and Matt hate Family Guy is no doubt the fact that it so mercilessly crushed them in the ratings for so long, so with that in mind, they didn't want to alienate their bipartisan fans).
Wrong, I'm criticizing you and I don't hate you, or even dislike you. I just disagree with you. They're perfectly capable of enjoying Family Guy while getting angered by comparisons to their show. Why do you assume otherwise?
You equate criticism with hate... I couldn't disagree more. Take Ronda and Conor for example, they have the world telling them they're unstoppable and they believed it. The Yes men ruined them. Criticism is extremely important. Blind support leads to people like Hitler gaining power, criticism leads to people like that losing power.
Why do you think they made Kyle and Stan like Family Guy, if they were trying to trash them?
In what world is a show on Comedy Central going to beat a show on Fox in the ratings?
As i pointed out with my "Bowling for Columbine" spiel, South Park doesn't blame scapegoats. They don't blame Seth for his success, they blame the townspeople. One can criticize someone without hating them. To quote from Sloan "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans"
Even if this is true, I think it's even more demonstrably true that Family Guy is much more complex than you give it credit for, and that, between the two of us, I give South Park far more credit than you give Family Guy.
Can you provide some examples to show the complexity of their writing? What are some of your favourite episodes?
It's not what they do, it's how they do it that bugs me. In any event, I think it's worth pointing out here that, if there's any point where we could draw a fundamental division that illuminates the split between the two shows and their creative prerogatives, it'd be that South Park (and, by extension, Trey and Matt) is/are ultimately negative whereas Family Guy (and, by extension, Seth) is/are ultimately positive. Trey and Matt can't wait to trash people/movies/etc., whereas Seth can't wait to celebrate people/movies/etc. Trey and Matt always bring up what they hate, whereas Seth always brings up what he likes.
I totally disagree about them being negative. That's like saying Rosa Parks was being negative for not taking her seat at the back of the bus. South Park is negative with good reason, they're exposing people to real issues that we face. They're trying to (and in many cases succeeding at) changing public perception.
South Park has characters like "Big Gay Al", "Timmy" "Jimmy" "Conjoined Fetus-head Nurse" and "Token Black"... at the time no one was putting characters like this in their show. South Park challenges the social conventions of the time. They challenge the way we look at handicapped people (Family Guy does that with Joe, but they don't get the credit. they just copied South Park"
Even the Succubus in South Park was based on real folklore.
Topics they've centered their episodes around include:
- The murderous incompetence of the ATF (Alocohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) and how they botched the Waco job. (Meteor Shower)
- Group-think, brain-washing vs. Individualist thought. (Chinpokoman)(planetarium)
- Gentrification (Sodosopa)
- Organized religion covering-up their sexual abuse
- Immigration
- NAMBLA (everyone knows who they are now)
- Cults/Mass-suicide
- Beastiality
- Scientology
- Gun nuts
- How people in Afghanistan live (to show the American masses who were pretty damn ignorant towards Afghans at the time)
- Hate crimes
- The circus abusing "freaks"
- Mormonism (how many people knew the origin of that religion before South Park?)
Even in the first season they covered some diverse topics like "hunting laws", "gay animals", genetic DNA splicing, "starving kids in Ethiopia" "plastic surgery" and "having a mom that's a total whore" I can't think of another comedy that also takes on serious issues and teaches you things as well.
Family Guy may cover a lot of the same social issues (often years after South Park has) but they don't do it as bluntly. The ridiculousness of South Park is an analogy. That's how crazy society is, to them... and me.
I certainly love a good burning at the stake, but there are two sides to the coin.
They (and you) are so quick to say why other people do what they do, and while the ivory tower presumptuousness is affronting enough, it's how painfully off the mark they (and you) are that adds insult to injury. Do you know how insanely rich Phil Collins was then/is now? The last thing he needs is a "cash grab." He's got all the cash he could ever want to grab. He does shit because he wants to. And he wanted to do
Tarzan for his kids, and "You'll Be In My Heart" in particular was for his daughter Lily. And if you, Trey, and Matt don't like that, then you can suck his Sussudio
.
Bro! Don't come at me with your microaggressions!
I'm of the belief that Disney is a horrible company, they treat their employees like crap, they over-charge, all their merchandise is made in China by wage-slaves. Phil shouldn't be working for/with them. They reward the rich with front of the line passes. Walt's a frozen fascist.
South Park on the other hand did the socially responsible thing, by making an episode showing Disney's true colours.
Are you familiar with the saying "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" because you've hurled a lot of accusations at Matt Stone and Trey Parker, in fact a lot more than I hurled at Phil. Your main piece of evidence seems to be a Reddit thread...
You presume Stone and Parker made up the story, while accusing me of speaking from an ivory tower of presumptuousness.
Phil Collins character in South Park was based off the Gumby's from Monty Python's flying circus. The way they portrayed him wasn't a reflection of Phil's character at all. The joke about the drugs making kids like Phil Collins was a jab at the academy. He won an oscar for a love song in a kids movie... what fucking kid wants to hear that? What was it even doing in there. It's ridiculous, which makes the song fake and cheesy (imo) and I can only assume that South Park agrees... Phil's song was much more popular, just another example of why Parker and Stone think society is ridiculous. The Academy choose a song that doesn't belong in a kid's movie and award it, over a song that was a brilliant and perfect for the movie, because it has foul language in it... The Academy (much like the mainstream media) award those who play it safe, and punish those who rock the boat and take a stand... That's ridiculous.
It's not Phil that they hate, it's what he represents... someone who is playing the game of life for themselves (and their family) rather than those who are playing for humanity.
Why do religion and government push family values so hard? One reason is because once you have a family you can't take strong political and moral stances, you just need to earn enough money to keep them comfortable, no matter what. If that means taking advantage of others than so be it. That's capitalism, every man for himself... That's not South Park, where the main characters try to build a community of informed people that work together... but much like in real life, they fail every time... because few people like to think and analyze things, most people just parrot what they hear elsewhere (from the media)
