Scientific approach to BJJ

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

For the people, who have followed my posts here, might be clear, that my perception about coaching BJJ is a bit different from the vast majority of the practitioners, who recognize BJJ black belt as the only requirement to be a BJJ coach.
English is not my first language, so at times, it might sounds confusing, but I will do my best.

So, how do you learn BJJ?

You join an academy and from day one you start learning what will soon become, a variety of thousends of techniques, with their variations and counters.
Where are those techniques coming from?
Your coach have learned the majority of them, then the rest is YouTube and interactions with other BJJ schools.
How are those technics structured?
That depends entirely on your coach, but lets be frank, BJJ been a privately owned business, means that the vendor (the coach) is targeting long term customers (you).

A quick look over the other grappling sports, will show the fact, that there are other ways to learn grappling sports. The olympic sports, for example, have developped curriculum for short, medium and long term goals and levels of the practitioners. So, in the case of judo, you will never see a "technique of the week" type of classes. You start with learning breakfalls, then based on your body type, your coach will pick a throw that you learn, followed by endless repetition, to create the muscle memory of that throw, while practicing it lively in situational sparrings.
It is similar in wrestling- you start with very broad range drills, to be narrowed little by little, down to a certain technique, with several variations. Then you learn certain positions, escapes and thats pretty much it. Followed by repetition until perfection.
It is simple, but brilliant approach.
The result?
Shorter learning curve, ensuring high level application of the same strategy (or what I call "a sequence"), leaving enough time for physical preparation of the athlete and in general, producing higher caliber competitors.

Is this applicable to BJJ?
Absolutely!

How?
First, it all boils down to the point, if your coach is capable of creating such curriculum and if he can recognize the needs for each different type of a practitioner, walking through the door.
Second, the coach should be able to recognize such "sequences" or gross movement patterns, then been able to work several different ways to narrow down those patterns to fine techniques.

What is the benefit of using such methods?
Lets start with the benefits of the drills- while used for warm up, those drills also help developing certain areas of the practitioner's body, protecting him from injuries in a long run.
Using more drills for the same sequence, means that while simplyfying things for the practitioner's mind, its easier for him to remember and execute a technique, leaving more time for his coach to work on physical preparation of his student.
As a result, we will have superior athletes, with very strong gameplans, drilled for thousends of hours, capable of reaching their maximum potential, whithin shorter time span.

Benefit for the coach:
Having a strong educational system, ensuring students, that with "X" amount of time and "Y" amount of efforts, they will reach "Z" level, instead of very vague idea of when someone could possibly become a black belt in BJJ.
That of course, means long term clients as well...

 

[sha]

I've trained at "technique of the week" BJJ academies, as well as gyms with a much more structured curriculum, and also gyms where people would just basically show up and drill on their own. I think all three styles can be good depending on people's goals. For hobbyists, seeing new techniques on a regular basis is a lot more fun than drilling the same few basics over and over again.

But for competitors, I agree that the random "let's work on passing the reverse half guard today!" approach sucks.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I've trained at "technique of the week" BJJ academies, as well as gyms with a much more structured curriculum, and also gyms where people would just basically show up and drill on their own. I think all three styles can be good depending on people's goals. For hobbyists, seeing new techniques on a regular basis is a lot more fun than drilling the same few basics over and over again.

But for competitors, I agree that the random "let's work on passing the reverse half guard today!" approach sucks.

I believe, that even for hobbyists, if they are lacking a strong sequence, which they can use as a backbone to develop their entire gameplan around, then they cannot possibly become any good in a long term, hence they will end up injurred or leave BJJ frustrated that they cant execute their own techniques against people with a lot less mat time then them selves.
I have seen both happening on a very frequent basis.

 

[Human Bass]

The thing about bjj is that during the live rolling, even a white belt in his 1st class will deal with so many things. Guard, half, side control, mount. Each one of those position can have a week long seminar about their intricacies. I agree that the the teaching methodology can be improved, but the very open nature of bjj would limit how much it can be improved.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

The thing about bjj is that during the live rolling, even a white belt in his 1st class will deal with so many things. Guard, half, side control, mount. Each one of those position can have a week long seminar about their intricacies. I agree that the the teaching methodology can be improved, but the very open nature of bjj would limit how much it can be improved.

Why does a white belt have to deal with all those issues in his first day?
If there is a system, developped for all levels (including kids in all range), then the white belt can start with situational sparring, based on the first part of the sequence he is about to learn.
For example, he can start with opening a closed guard and passing (top and bottom).
I have seen many people say "Fuck this!" and leave after they have been mangled by blues and purples in their first day. Instead, they can start with simple tasks and move towards full sparrings within time.

 

[cjd]

I think you're attacking a bit of a straw man here - most of the decent-sized academies in my neck of the woods have the following progression:

(1) take an intro class with no more than two or three students with a coach who introduces you to breakfalls, hip escapes, etc

(2) has a dedicated novice class that you are in for about 6 weeks where there is no sparring and has a very structured curriculum

(3) has an intermediate class you are in for about 6 months that has a semi-structured curriculum and does mostly positional sparring

(4) then you graduate to the advanced class with full sparring etc.

 

[wordspeaker]

Where is the science? There is nothing scoentific about simply asserting your opinion.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I think you're attacking a bit of a straw man here - most of the decent-sized academies in my neck of the woods have the following progression:

(1) take an intro class with no more than two or three students with a coach who introduces you to breakfalls, hip escapes, etc

(2) has a dedicated novice class that you are in for about 6 weeks where there is no sparring and has a very structured curriculum

(3) has an intermediate class you are in for about 6 months that has a semi-structured curriculum and does mostly positional sparring

(4) then you graduate to the advanced class with full sparring etc.

I dont think I am attacking anything.
I am addressing an issue with BJJ educational structure and way to improve it.
It is great, that there are people, working with some kind of curriculums.
Are they scientifically and educationaly sound though?
If you teach kids how to suplex, before you taught them how to arch and breakfall, you should be meeting the consequences when injuries occure.
What I suggest, is that BJJ coaches take page from other grappling arts and work towards improving their own art. It could only benefit from real "Let your ego at the door", especially when it comes to the coaches.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Where is the science? There is nothing scoentific about simply asserting your opinion.

Gross movement patterns> drills> narrowed down techniques> drills> fine details> drills.
Approach, based on small arsenal of techniques, chained in a sequence from standup, all the way to submission.
Used in judo and wrestling for decades, backed by tons of physical education theory and science.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Here is a similar idea, with further development into applying angles and frames.
Im happy to see more people are looking into BJJ beyond just rolls:

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

I dont think I am attacking anything.
I am addressing an issue with BJJ educational structure and way to improve it.
It is great, that there are people, working with some kind of curriculums.
Are they scientifically and educationaly sound though?
If you teach kids how to suplex, before you taught them how to arch and breakfall, you should be meeting the consequences when injuries occure.
What I suggest, is that BJJ coaches take page from other grappling arts and work towards improving their own art. It could only benefit from real "Let your ego at the door", especially when it comes to the coaches.

Wait a minute. Is this Rener Gracie pretending to be someone else???? Caught you bro!!!!

Seriously what you are describing is similar to what Rener and Ryron have been saying. If you show up to college to become a Dr there is a cirriculum and based on what kiND of Dr you want to be there are variations. The Gracie Bros built an excellent cirriculum to get you from day 1 to black belt and beyond. If you have never seen it. Check it out....Rener

 

[Steve08]

Wait a minute. Is this Rener Gracie pretending to be someone else???? Caught you bro!!!!

Seriously what you are describing is similar to what Rener and Ryron have been saying. If you show up to college to become a Dr there is a cirriculum and based on what kiND of Dr you want to be there are variations. The Gracie Bros built an excellent cirriculum to get you from day 1 to black belt and beyond. If you have never seen it. Check it out....Rener

The point he is making is that a progressive curriculum like that is not at all common in the average BJJ school. One exception doesn't invalidate the norm.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Wait a minute. Is this Rener Gracie pretending to be someone else???? Caught you bro!!!!

Seriously what you are describing is similar to what Rener and Ryron have been saying. If you show up to college to become a Dr there is a cirriculum and based on what kiND of Dr you want to be there are variations. The Gracie Bros built an excellent cirriculum to get you from day 1 to black belt and beyond. If you have never seen it. Check it out....Rener

I have no idea what Rener or Ryron have been saying.
My guess is you didnt bother reading through my first post.
I shouldnt be bothered answering either... Was at Pride 2000 or whoever you are.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Another part of such educational curriculum, should be the planning.
As most Olympic sports are using Olympic cycles (4 years), similar approach could be used for BJJ as well, but with different macrocycles and mesocycles.
Annual planning should include off season phases, preparation phases, competition phases and etc.
Intensity and focus of the sessions should depend on the phase and competition calendar.
During competition season, its not very productive to introduce new techniques. Instead, the sequences should be drilled with higher intensity...

 

[wordspeaker]

Again. There is nothing scientific about your approach. A scientific approach would be to test your hypothesis through the scientific method of replicable experimentation. What you are advocating is simply theory.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Again. There is nothing scientific about your approach. A scientific approach would be to test your hypothesis through the scientific method of replicable experimentation. What you are advocating is simply theory.

Where did you see me talking about "MY" approach?
I am stating methodology already implied in judo and wrestling for decades.
Are you going to argue, that wrestling and judo are lacking scientific research and approach in their educational program?

 

[Human Bass]

Why does a white belt have to deal with all those issues in his first day?
If there is a system, developped for all levels (including kids in all range), then the white belt can start with situational sparring, based on the first part of the sequence he is about to learn.
For example, he can start with opening a closed guard and passing (top and bottom).
I have seen many people say "Fuck this!" and leave after they have been mangled by blues and purples in their first day. Instead, they can start with simple tasks and move towards full sparrings within time.

Dealing with most of the positions everyday is an essential part of the live roll. Of course advanced students should go light on the whites, but that doesn't mean not using mount or back control. Although I agree that it can be wasteful to the students to find out some basic concepts by themselves instead of being told right away.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Dealing with most of the positions everyday is an essential part of the live roll. Of course advanced students should go light on the whites, but that doesn't mean not using mount or back control. Although I agree that it can be wasteful to the students to find out some basic concepts by themselves instead of being told right away.

If you compare learning curve and way to introduce complete novice to the sport in the different grappling arts, you will find that almost all sports are introducing the new beginners to the full sparring just step by step, by clearing simple tasks on the way.
If a practitioner doesnt know how to breakfall, he is not supposed to go live with the high level competitors.
In case of BJJ, what is the benefit for the new guy, who just signed, to be thrown in the mix, while he doesnt even understand that he is about to go to sleep if he doesnt tap? Or mounting him, when he doesnt even knows what mount is? To show him that he doesnt know shit? Thats natural- its his first day and he came in to learn. Not to be broken down mentally.
I have never seen such practice in judo/ wrestling/ sambo.
New beginners start with simple tasks and learn basic stuff, before they move to drills and situational sparrings (as mentioned before, they could sparr with goals, such as open a cross guard and pass).
Within a few weeks, when he at least knows the rules and is familiar with concepts, he can do live sparrings.
There is a mental part of this methodology as well...

 

[CYKO]

I've trained at three schools. All have had beginner classes. It sounds like you're just describing the progression from white to black (broad range, whittled down over time, simplified game but detailed). Maybe there are some schools that throw the whites in with the sharks. Hasn't been my experience.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I've trained at three schools. All have had beginner classes. It sounds like you're just describing the progression from white to black (broad range, whittled down over time, simplified game but detailed). Maybe there are some schools that throw the whites in with the sharks. Hasn't been my experience.

For the last 16 years, I have lived on 3 continents, visited over 30 countries, trained in most of them.
Have visited and trained in over 40 BJJ schools just in Japan, Mexico and China.
The people who run those schools are following "curriculum" or have structured their classes after their coaches or affiliated academies HQs. Needless to say, there is a lot to improve.
White belts have been fed to anyone from day one in the vast majority of the places I have visited.

Yes, I am talking about progression from white to black belt (for practitioners, who have only done BJJ, Im guessing thats the only way you could describe it).
The point is to systemize the educational process, widen the horizen of the coaches for everyone's benefit.

If you want to play inverted, not a problem, but do it as a part of broader range of movements, all part of one sequence/ pattern, which works best for you.
That will make you a specialist in your gameplan.
And continuous drills with different intensity and variations, would make you overcome athletes, whose gameplan is shuttign down inverted gameplans