Opinion School day length: China v. US philosophies.

[panamaican]

I recently ran across an article discussing China's push to extend their school days.

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/china-extends-school-day-to-ease-burden-of-parenting-1069700

The main points are the Chinese government is pushing primary and middle schools to keep kids at school longer to ease the burden on working parents.

The country’s ministry of education issued a notice on Tuesday for after-school classes to end at least half an hour after most parents finish work.

The driving force seems to be realization that the modern workday and the modern school day don't overlap and it is creating a significant burden on working families, especially given their desire to increase the birthrate.

It had me thinking. This issue, the difference between the school day and the work day, is an issue that we've talked about in the U.S. for quite a while. People have constantly pointed out how that issue hurts working families making it harder for them in a variety of ways compared to families who can afford after school care or have a stay at home parent who can step in.

Yet the frequent response here, in the U.S., is that those concerns are just an attempt to avoid the responsibilities of parenting and educating their children.

I think it's an interesting juxtaposition that China experiences the same problem and reaches a completely different conclusion on what it means and what should be done about it. And since this is about education, an area, where China's approach is frequently praised compared to ours (at least when conversations about meritocratic education are being held), I thought it might generate some interesting debate.

Are the Chinese in the wrong to use the school and longer school hours to take the childcare burden off of families?

 

[Natural Order]

The logic is sound, the idea for a family day to line up with start and end times so as to better coordinate everything.

Here in the west kids are done school at two in the fucking afternoon and you've got hoops to go through to arrange after school care (another huge cost), etc!
Seems like school hours have massively shortened up since I was a kid.

There's also the old discussion about how that hard focus on education in Asian countries is the primary reason for their top levels in STEM and other highly respected fields. I think the data reveals some pretty huge swings in these areas over the last 30 years and the contrasting importance seemingly placed on education between these two regions.

 

[tonni]

Quite simply, kids (adults neither but that's a different topic) can't focus that long. (Or it's very difficult I should say.)

Here in the west kids are done school at two in the fucking afternoon and you've got hoops to go through to arrange after school care (another huge cost), etc!

Most jobs could probably do with shorter workdays though.

 

[DavidsGhost]

I recently ran across an article discussing China's push to extend their school days.

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/china-extends-school-day-to-ease-burden-of-parenting-1069700

The main points are the Chinese government is pushing primary and middle schools to keep kids at school longer to ease the burden on working parents.


The driving force seems to be realization that the modern workday and the modern school day don't overlap and it is creating a significant burden on working families, especially given their desire to increase the birthrate.

It had me thinking. This issue, the difference between the school day and the work day, is an issue that we've talked about in the U.S. for quite a while. People have constantly pointed out how that issue hurts working families making it harder for them in a variety of ways compared to families who can afford after school care or have a stay at home parent who can step in.

Yet the frequent response here, in the U.S., is that those concerns are just an attempt to avoid the responsibilities of parenting and educating their children.

I think it's an interesting juxtaposition that China experiences the same problem and reaches a completely different conclusion on what it means and what should be done about it. And since this is about education, an area, where China's approach is frequently praised compared to ours (at least when conversations about meritocratic education are being held), I thought it might generate some interesting debate.

Are the Chinese in the wrong to use the school and longer school hours to take the childcare burden off of families?

Why not just reduce the amount of time people spend at work?

This is a wild question. It’s like it’s assuming people HAVE to work longer. And if that’s the case, then what options are there to address the problem?

My thought is that we need to spend less time working on the states and more time enjoying our friends and family and on personal edification.

 

[panamaican]

The logic is sound, the idea for a family day to line up with start and end times so as to better coordinate everything.

Here in the west kids are done school at two in the fucking afternoon and you've got hoops to go through to arrange after school care (another huge cost), etc!
Seems like school hours have massively shortened up since I was a kid.

There's also the old discussion about how that hard focus on education in Asian countries is the primary reason for their top levels in STEM and other highly respected fields. I think the data reveals some pretty huge swings in these areas over the last 30 years and the contrasting importance seemingly placed on education between these two regions.

I think it's less so that the school hours have shortened but that work flexibility has decreased while dual working households have increased. I think about jobs like bank teller or cashier or book keeper where women used to work but the work day could be over by 3pm and then they go pick up the kids. Or they just didn't work at all because the husband's income was enough to cover their needs. Those hourly jobs with flexibility seem to have disappeared and the ones that remain pay so little that they're not attractive to working age adults with children. At least, that's my impression.

 

[Literally Bricked]

Quite simply, kids (adults neither but that's a different topic) can't focus that long. (Or it's very difficult I should say.)

Most jobs could probably do with shorter workdays though.

But you can create a positive after school environment for them where they actually do homework, have a set time for exercise and potentially even a meal.

 

[panamaican]

Why not just reduce the amount of time people spend at work?

This is a wild question. It’s like it’s assuming people HAVE to work longer. And if that’s the case, then what options are there to address the problem?

My thought is that we need to spend less time working on the states and more time enjoying our friends and family and on personal edification.

I would probably agree with that but the social push recently is that we should all be working longer and harder to prove that we're not drains on society or something like that. I don't think the workday is going to shrink any time in the near future.

 

[Natural Order]

I think it's less so that the school hours have shortened but that work flexibility has decreased while dual working households have increased. I think about jobs like bank teller or cashier or book keeper where women used to work but the work day could be over by 3pm and then they go pick up the kids. Or they just didn't work at all because the husband's income was enough to cover their needs. Those hourly jobs with flexibility seem to have disappeared and the ones that remain pay so little that they're not attractive to working age adults with children. At least, that's my impression.

100%. So much has drastically changed in 30 years, and the rate of change appears to be increasing. Hold on!

 

[Natural Order]

Quite simply, kids (adults neither but that's a different topic) can't focus that long. (Or it's very difficult I should say.)

Most jobs could probably do with shorter workdays though.

I like this line of thought even better. Promoting more work/life balance for everybody. Spot on!

 

[panamaican]

100%. So much has drastically changed in 30 years, and the rate of change appears to be increasing. Hold on!

So, what's your thoughts on China's approach - require the schools to keep the kids on premises until the end of the normal workday?

 

[cooks1]

Great fucking post with great questions!!

I think the more we can get congruity and balance between the work day and the school day, the better off we all will be. But it's no easy task

My kids school has 'extended day' which covers 3-6 pm, costs around $300 a month, and is completely filled with an enormous waiting list.

Summer vacations present their own challenges. I think one answer might be publicly funded (perhaps partially, perhaps fully) optional, non-graded, 'skills based' curriculums in the summer. A lot of skill based classes have been siphoned off the curriculum the last decades. Various Arts, music, shops, mechanical repair, the like. You could teach programming and coding classes. Money management. Cooking. Resume creation. Even have introductory courses in construction, plumbing, electronics, welding, Ac repair, etc. If we give kids a taste of these things in school, we could get more into the trades, which is something we desperately need.

 

[tonni]

But you can create a positive after school environment for them where they actually do homework, have a set time for exercise and potentially even a meal.

I'm sure it's theoretically possible to make being stuck in school even longer somewhat pleasant.

 

[DavidsGhost]

I would probably agree with that but the social push recently is that we should all be working longer and harder to prove that we're not drains on society or something like that. I don't think the workday is going to shrink any time in the near future.

Yeah, I feel that.


If we’re just working from this context, I’d opt for after school clubs where kids can play games or relax in the park or something.

 

[cooks1]

So, what's your thoughts on China's approach - require the schools to keep the kids on premises until the end of the normal workday?

I'm OK with it. Let the fat lil cherubs run laps around the school and do pull-ups until we get there.

 

[Natural Order]

So, what's your thoughts on China's approach - require the schools to keep the kids on premises until the end of the normal workday?

I don't think they have another option really. It's so structured there that this would seem to be the logical follow through. They aren't at a point in their ecosystem where the insanity of our days could be used in any optimal fashion (and I'd question that ours are optimal in any fashion!).

 

[Gregolian]

Japan does something like this already but they have the kids like help sweep and clean up their classrooms and almost everyone takes part in some sort of school club.

 

[Natural Order]

Be interesting for anybody with first hand knowledge of the typical Chinese day in the life in terms of work/life expectations. Do we have any Chinese Sherdog members? Is Sherdog even viewable in China?

 

[tonni]

Be interesting for anybody with first hand knowledge of the typical Chinese day in the life in terms of work/life expectations. Do we have any Chinese Sherdog members? Is Sherdog even viewable in China?

Sherdog is like the sky over there in that regard.

 

[panamaican]

I don't think they have another option really. It's so structured there that this would seem to be the logical follow through. They aren't at a point in their ecosystem where the insanity of our days could be used in any optimal fashion.

Yeah, I feel that.


If we’re just working from this context, I’d opt for after school clubs where kids can play games or relax in the park or something.

I'm OK with it. Let the fat lil cherubs run laps around the school and do pull-ups until we get there.

What do you think are the barriers to implementation in the U.S.? Can those barriers be overcome? Should they be?

 

[DavidsGhost]

What do you think are the barriers to implementation in the U.S.? Can those barriers be overcome? Should they be?

I think there’s a tax barrier for sure. We would need to create these programs and not half ass it and accept that there will be implementation hiccups and road bumps, and then of course either raise local taxes or defund the police.


So it will quickly become an ideological issue. If at the federal level, man, I don’t know how that would play with bi partisan support.


I’m more than happy to put extra money into the public pot to fund these kinds of programs.