Scarf hold- underhook or not?

[Blue Streak]

Agreed.
Disagree, it think the couple there are are fairly easy to block once you know them. And you have to release your control of uke's arm, at least momentarily, to go for them, which opens the way for him to escape behind you.

Really? I've always found the exact opposite with Kesa Gatame. There aren't high percentage transitions, it's kind of the end of the road. Which ones work for you?

I don't use the underhook version of kesa gatame very much, so maybe I am just not as aware of possible submissions and transitions from that position as I am from regular kesa gatame.

Yes, you have to release the arm to transition or submit (except if you try a lung choke) but that doesn't bother me. As long as you have good head control they can't really do much, and I still maintain some control of the arm by keeping a hold of it even though it isn't locked in my armpit anymore. I can't even remember a time where my opponent was able to "duck out the back". Doesn't mean that it hasn't happened to me, just that I don't remember it.

My favourite transition is the first one we are ever taught at my club, and that is from kesa gatame into an arm triangle. Alternatively, if they roll towards me I can often transition into mount (or back mount if they keep turning), and if they turn away I go for back mount (although at my club you are taught NEVER to turn away from your opponent). However, I may be able to achieve these moves primarily because I am a small, naturally fast guy who generally trains with larger, slower guys.

However, I have been inspired to try and go for the underhook version more now and will try and see what I can get from there.

 

[Rod1]

Kesa gatame is usually done wrong, that's why its dismissed as pinning only and "risky".

Scarf hold is a bad translation, it should actually be called the "sash" hold as the kesa (buddhist monk scarf) is like a presidential sash. Controlling the shoulder is more important than controlling the arm, if people are taking your back is because you are only controlling the arm and the head.

Plus people like to wrap the head which takes away the possibility to prevent the roll over.

I like the underhook to put pressure, the normal to look transitioning, i usually go from kesa to kata gatame and then arm triangle or improve to kamishiho.

 

[fiftysvn]

Some tips

YouTube - Tony Cecchine - Catch Wrestling, Ground Domination 1

Great tip. Thanks for posting.

 

[Rod1]

Some tips

YouTube - Tony Cecchine - Catch Wrestling, Ground Domination 1

This, pretty much without controlling the shoulder its easy to turn and try to take back, if someone puts the leg under your shoulder you are not taking his back.

What i dont like its him locking him arm on his tight, because the opponent can still bridge to the other side and try to flip over, so i like to pull the head but not lock it, so if the opponent tries to turn me over i can free my hand and stop. Very powerful pin, but i dont agree with the school of thought that you have to put weight on him, you have to squeeze him around you so he is out of breath, but if you put weight on him he has a better leverage to move you too.

For pressure i still think that underhook is far superior, specially when you grab the head with both arms, what people seem to miss, is that you can still do a kesa gatame without holding the near arm, as long as you properly control the shoulder with your leg and keep the pressure so that it doesnt slips.

Watch Helio vs Kimura video, there is a glimpse of a kuzure kesa gatame done without grabbing the near arm.