Social Sanity vs. Insanity Rand Paul questions gender dysphoria

[TryggeTryggvar]

I actually agree with you on this, but as a teacher I've been forced to really think through the details of what I believe in relation to my care and respect for the children that I teach.

Personally, I feel like hormone blockers for boys transitioning to girls (and I know I'm not saying that as sensitively as I'm probably supposed to, but I'm trying to be as clear as possible) are not such an out there treatment option. If that person changes their mind at a later date, once they are an adult, there are still some good options left for developing as a man.

But giving testosterone to girls transitioning to boys seems an exercise in potential cruelty. If that person changes their mind at a later date, once they are and adult, the options available don't have very promising results. The potential loathing that someone in that position might have for their childhood self and the adults who failed to protect them from the long term consequences of their childhood choices feels like a massive burden to me, considering the fact that waiting until adulthood does not come with the same sorts of "too lateness" of the former scenario.

The decisions to remove body parts, in either case, seems to me something far beyond the capacity that a child has for forethought and an understanding of the long term. Especially since, as above, there is no real long term advantage to doing it now versus doing it later.

I am, however, sympathetic to the idea that a parent might see the long term advantage of acting now as being the increased happiness of their child in the present leading to the greater likelihood that their child will still be around in the future. I'm not sure I've seen much in the way to suggest this is the case, but I'm certainly open to the possibility that it is, and I don't envy any parent that sense of dread, or judge them for their attempt to address it.

I'd be interested in the thoughts of more "Trans Friendly" people on the above (i.e. the situations in which waiting does not have a negative, "Shrek in drag," impact on future outcomes).

Personally, I feel that maybe the best thing to do is to treat trans issues with children and teens in a way that is in keeping with best practices for how we (should) treat sexuality in general with children and teens. That is to say, you help your trans girl feel that it's okay she has a penis for now, and empowered in the idea that when she is of age to make adult decisions she can make the decision of whether she wants to keep it or not. Likewise, to help your trans boy feel comfortable in his smooth skin for now, and empowered in the idea that when he is of age to make adult decisions he can choose to keep his smooth skin or grow a beard.

Thoughts?

Good post sherbro
While i do think the trans issue is extremely difficult to solve when it comes to the issues that affect other people(bathrooms and sports etc) for the trans people themselves i think acceptance is the most important thing. Teaching them to be comfortable with themselves and teaching others not to discriminate against them is a very good first step and might in the long run lead to people not using science to alter their bodies at all.
Off course if you are an adult i support your right to do with your body as you please, but knowing people from the local trans community i think some of them would be more comfortable if they never started to transition. Though others are happy with the way they turned out.
Its not a black and white problem, and you have to take into account that everyone is different even in groups that identify as the same. Its the gift and curse of humanity and makes it extremely hard to keep everyone satisfied even if they have the same goals in life.
Still im against using treatment on people under 18 as the problems overshadow the positives in my opinion.

 

[goldennirvana]

No it’s not.

Sure, reactionaries like Jordan Peterson and Lyndon LaRouche might claim that is the case, but only idiots take their theories seriously.

it’s just another boomer conspiracy theory for dittoheads to believe in.

You don't know what the Frankfurt School is.

 

[James Bomb]

You don't know what the Frankfurt School is.

You have a history of pimping incredibly dumb viewpoints on this forum and pretending that they’re mindblowing.

People always wonder “what sort of dumbass buys the shit being advertised on Joe Rogan’s podcast?” And it’s you, buddy.

 

[THC]

you should have seen the guy who came before him! Hey, why am I replying to a 2 month old baby?

Nah... Biden just broke the record for how fast you can earn the title shittiest president ever.

 

[THC]

The people who back what, exactly?

You'll note that he opens with "children" and then segues into "minors".

He starts with "genital mutilation" but pushes forward with "hormone therapy".

He never mentions the age restrictions for any of these measures.

He never mentions the requisite parental consent.

He never mentions the requisite approval of a therapist.

We're talking about an extreme minority of the population who has had to pass a number of hurdles to qualify for any of these treatments "Genital mutilation" is never performed on anyone younger than 16 (by law) and requires parental consent. It's pretty rare in general for a young person to do it in the first place as it is extreme and doctors in general are hesitant "do harm".

The media has painted an ugly picture here and rarely do they include important facts.

The information that does exist appears to corroborate Asquith’s claim. In a 2015 survey of nearly 28,000 people conducted by the U.S.-based National Center for Transgender Equality, only 8 percent of respondents reported detransitioning, and 62 percent of those people said they only detransitioned temporarily. The most common reason for detransitioning, according to the survey, was pressure from a parent, while only 0.4 percent of respondents said they detransitioned after realizing transitioning wasn’t right for them.​

I don't think younger people should be getting transition surgery, and it's pretty rare, but what's important here is that they're looking to ban puberty suppression therapy, which studies show to be low risk and is used beyond transexual aspirations. Studies show that removal access to that therapy will increase suicide rates in troubled teens.

I'm not an expert in any of this obviously, but the one thing I know without a doubt is that Rand Paul is not the one to trust.

About anything.

Ever.

Watching him this year in the senate and in congress has made me physically ill. The way he plays with language and misrepresents the facts to manipulate people should be criminal, and what frightens people is that it works. He's good at it. People hear what they want to hear and remember the parts he wants them to remember. He puts something out there and then pushes hard on a much lesser charge, knowing people are going to remember his opening statements, even though he can't prove those because often they are completely untrue.

I think they are referring to people that support genital and mental mutilation of children.

 

[wbubbles]

Rachel levine is mentally off and angry at the world for being different so he has to spread and normalize his lunacy onto others.

 

[Inoffensive1]

I share the serious concerns about life-altering decisions being made at the young ages that it is being done...but I also recognize that the nature of the issue suggests that waiting until someone is older is also problematic. This is not an easy, straightforward issue.

This is where research and knowledge needs to come into play. As much as we should beware of bias in favour of any cause or idea by those who are advocating for it, we should also avoid being *so* arrogant in believing that something is 'obvious' or 'common sense' when it is actually more complex.

The reality is that the *vast* majority of people here have very little knowledge (if any) about the topic beyond a wiki search for 'gender dysphoria' (or worse, their position is based on nothing other than their own ideas). If we want to talk about using 'common sense', then start by doing a deeper dive on the topic before deciding that you already know everything you need to know in order to take whatever position you are taking...

Great fucking post.