-Sandbagging during Tournaments-

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by El Gato, Aug 13, 2005.

  1. El Gato

    El Gato Green Belt

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    What do you guys think of someone who has done only GI for two years (blue belt) , enters a tournament does both gi and no gi . Enters the tournament at a intermediate level for gi and beginner level for no gi . Your thoughts ? A guy I roll with did this ... I thought it was lame ...He got kicked out of the no gi cause he RNC the first three people he faced , the ref thought he was sandbagging so threw him out ....I think gi or no gi it should be how long you trained not what belt you are or if you done one more than the other ...Oh yea I should also say that I saw a Blackbelt from Brazil who had won the Mundials that year enter as a intermediate in a no gi tournament cause he wanted the prize money ....This was inSept 2002 in New Jersey at the United Grappling Assoc tournament . Thoughts..
     
  2. Rip Van Winkle

    Rip Van Winkle Last Login 2009

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    sandbagging is always going to happen....hell, I consider wrestlers who only do no-gi as beginners sandbagging.

    I don't really see a clear resolution to the matter since at the white belt level, people lie all the time about how long they've been training and what not.
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    Sandbagging is a real problem in BJJ and submission grappling in general.

    It is really discouraging to beginners because I have never seen a true beginners' division in any grappling tournament. The "Beginner" or "Novice" division is always filled with ripped guys with caulis who have jiu-jitsu tatooed on their back. There are no beginners' divisions in grappling tournaments. Period.

    I think the problem is so common in BJJ because ranking standards are so varied. It is even worse in submission grappling where ranking standards are nonexistent. Grappling needs a large regulatory organization for tournaments like judo has.

    Large tournaments like NAGA should start this off by keeping a registry of all of its competitors. After someone has been a competitor at a certain level for 2-3 years, they should automatically be bumped up to the next level. Also competitors should be bumped up if they win their division (or top 10% in large divisions of 20+).

    I used to fight in point sparring tournaments when I was a kid, and I don't remember there being really any sandbagging at all. It made the tournaments more fair and competitive for everyone. I don't see any reason for grappling to be an exception.
     
  4. Rip Van Winkle

    Rip Van Winkle Last Login 2009

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    I would be for something along those lines....

    Either way, I won't allow myself to be like the guys i had to face in my first competition. I had about 3 months total training of BJJ and lost to 2 guys who each has 18 months or more experience (which I found out first hand after the matches just by simply asking).
     
  5. El Gato

    El Gato Green Belt

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    Yea it sucks that some people take advantage of the system ...I don't know how they could be proud of such hollow victories . Some sort of system that tracks competitors sounds good .
     
  6. guardpasser

    guardpasser Tudo Bem Bjj

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    i have faced sandbaggers and i dont do no go that much due to it in tournys, my problem is i do no gi very few times and for me, i should be in advanced no gi-----i hav eno chance ther , but that is where i would enter if i did do it
     
  7. El Gato

    El Gato Green Belt

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    I hear you Guardpasser ....I've been in that same postion . I got schooled in the no gi divison , the guy that won was amazing to say the least , you may have heard of him Ivan (The Pride of Istanbul ) Metivar . He fought Matt Sera in the U.F.C any way he tapped two people with a cart wheel to knee bar . This was in the intermediate level .....The sickest thing he hit was a hurricanna (not sure of spelling ) .
     
  8. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    Ivan Menjivar was fighting in the intermediate divison? The same guy who went three rounds with Matt Serra?

    lol
     
  9. NeelyWCU

    NeelyWCU Brown Belt

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    u gotta be kidding me...thats ridiculous?
     
  10. TJS

    TJS Brown Belt

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    Yea honestly there is way to much sandbagging in Gi and No gi. It's a tough issude but im not sure exactly hwo to solve it. I guess some people feel good going thru life beating up on people they shoudent be competing against.

    speaking of I was in the same divison as shannon Ritch at my last Submission wrestling tournament and I have been training a year.
     
  11. Corey123

    Corey123 Guest

    I really hate sandbagging. At my first tourney, two of the guys I faced were in beginner No Gi and when it was time for the Gi matches, they went into intermediate with blue-belts.
     
  12. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    Problem with that is what if a guy has been in the sport for three years but in and out with injurys so he's a forever blue belt.. and really not that good. Then he is destined to lose every tournament he enters... he will forever be having to fight up.
     
  13. El Gato

    El Gato Green Belt

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    I should say that the Tournament I mentioned with Ivan in the intermediate div was about a year before he fought in Superbrawl and at least another year before he faced Serra in the U.F.C. my time frame might be a little off but he wasn't doing N.H.B yet . He was one of the sickest people at the tourney and only fought in the intermediate no gi . Yea it was a little dishearting watching someone play with people and sub them with what ever they wanted , I was even begining to think that I didn't belong in that division (I had just got my blue belt ) . My Instuctor told me not to worry about it and learn from the experience . He also mentioned that Ivan had been training for five or six more years than I had .
     
  14. wallsac

    wallsac Orange Belt

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    I've been licking around the idea of competing in a bjj tourney- but this makes me think i really don;t want to. I really only have a bout 2 months training- but I think it would be fun to compete for the hell of it in the beginners division. But if I want to get my ass kicked by blue belts, I'll just stay home and roll at my gym. I thought the whole point of competition is to gauge where one stands. An intermediate sandbagging isn't learning anything about himself...
     
  15. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    Good point. That problem could be fixed by only upgrading someone after 2-3 years of active competition, i.e. competing in at least one event that year. That way if someone would have on/off injuries and not be healthy enough to compete for three years, he would still remain at the same skill level.
     
  16. CoutureFan16

    CoutureFan16 Purple Belt

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    Ive only kinda had a problem with sandbagging once. I was at a tournament in Delaware one time, a real shitty one, and they accidentally put me in the adults division, Im only 16. Thats not really the problem tho. The problem was that the first kid I faced was a wrestler all through high school, so technically he was not a beginner. In any legit tournament if you were a wrestler for all 4 years in highschool or any bit of college, you are automatically in the intermediate division no matter how long you have been training sub wrestling/BJJ.
     
  17. RobT

    RobT Purple Belt

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    I've only entered one BJJ tournament so far, after training for just over 2 months. I got totally whooped in the first round. Then I find out the guy I fought had basically already been told he was a blue belt, but he hadn't officially been given his belt in order to fight in the white belt division.

    Oh well. Live and learn.
     
  18. EPT

    EPT Orange Belt

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    Wallsac, you should give it a go just to get experiance with tournaments, it's not like everyone that goes in tournaments is a sandbagger. If nothing else you'll learn a lot from competing.
     
  19. Waxwingslain

    Waxwingslain oiseau rebelle

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    I came up against a wrestler in my first tournament - the guy picked everyone up and laid on them to win the division easily. It was disheartening - the guy had years of wrestling and probably would have beaten most of the blue belts there.

    I haven't bothered to enter any tournaments since. Altogether I have about two and a half years of jiu-jitsu. I'm still a white belt but I regularly tap out blue and occasionally purples rolling at my club (admittedly it's a very different atmosphere to competitions). My big weakness is take-downs - I really have very little idea about standing techniques and I'm reluctant to enter tournaments like this. I don't think my teacher will give me a blue belt unless I enter a competition which is fair enough. I'll probably enter one eventually and I could reasonably be accused of sandbagging.

    Before I came to Japan, I used to train at Gracie Barra in Birmingham and wanted to enter a competition after a few months there. The manager of the school forbade it and I felt like it was really unjust. Now I realise the guy was doing me a big favor. Anyone who enters a competition after a couple of months of grappling and expects to win is heading for a wake-up call.
     
  20. Rip Van Winkle

    Rip Van Winkle Last Login 2009

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    exactly, you should enter it and go in with the attitude that it'll be a learning experience. no one goes undefeated, no one. For those who win their first tournament after just a few months of training with no previous grappling or martial arts background...great, but that's a rarity.
     

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