International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V8

[GhostZ06]

This is not looking like a coordinated retreat, i suppose these will be handed over to the US for a hefty fee

remore is we got a KA-52 and one the more advanced intelligence vehicles

 

[MeatheadMike]

The longer this all goes on.... The less Ukraine will get at the negotiating table. This war could be over tomorrow if NATO didn't keep telling Zelensky not to negotiate.

Peace would be better than more unnecessary death. European leaders are willing to let their people freeze to continue the sanctions. The protests are starting to grow. I'd prefer a neutral Ukraine over the suffering that is accompanying this decision to try to join NATO and their shelling of the Donbass.

This take is pretty idiotic, yet has been repeated over and over by several different posters these threads. Almost as if this narrative has been pushed by certain sources on social media

Its the same as if a bully was trying to take lunch money from a kid half their size, and the kid decided to stand up to the bully and defend himself.... except you guys would blame the kid for not giving the bully his lunch money claiming he doesn't want peace.

 

[Cole train]

Rus side is confident with the arrival of reserves they will stop ukros offensive and in 48 to 72 hours will start to regain all the territory lost in the past two days. Most of rus experts I follow are saying Kupyansk will not fall and Izium city will be defended 100%.
We'll watch and see.

There were news rus is flying reinforcements to izium via choppers

Fun random fact

According to geneva rules when pilot is shot down and is dropping in with parachute it is illegal to shoot him while in air. Have to wait until he has landed then shoot him.

 

[jimbob27]

So when you are actually winning, you are actually losing? i don't get this, the longer this drags on the better the Ukrainian negotiating position will be.

Unless Russia somehow manages to stabilize the battlefronts soon, they will be in a position where they may even lose Crimea, Putin fucked up badly, he should had negotiated Crimean recognition in exchange for peace, a water treaty and some sort of demilitarization of the peninsula.

Now chances are they will lose the long term viability of Crimea if they fail to stabilize the fronts.

They don't need to take Crimea, if they manage to threaten Russian ports and hit the Kerch bridge the whole region is fucked, its tourism industry is basically dead at this point.



There is no peace with Russia, except peace earned through strength.

If all this happens, I think it's likely to turn into an existential threat for Putin himself.

He will have gone from the guy who fixed the economy and reclaimed Crimea, to the guy who wrecked the economy and lost Crimea. He won't need to worry about external threats as the danger will come from within. It's part of their national psyche to admire a strong leader but they're not full on personality-cultists. The moment he's deemed a bad leader, either by Russia United or the FSB his days are likely numbered.

 

[Cole train]

If all this happens, I think it's likely to turn into an existential threat for Putin himself.

He will have gone from the guy who fixed the economy and reclaimed Crimea, to the guy who wrecked the economy and lost Crimea. He won't need to worry about external threats as the danger will come from within. It's part of their national psyche to admire a strong leader but they're not full on personality-cultists. The moment he's deemed a bad leader, either by Russia United or the FSB his days are likely numbered.

No

Rus people will "never rise up" unless really backed in corner, never underestimate how much russians can suffer like saying goes

Only threat is from inner circle but considering intelligence boss was scared shitless of him i find it unlikely they will go against him

 

[Anewt]

This take is pretty idiotic, yet has been repeated over and over by several different posters these threads. Almost as if this narrative has been pushed by certain sources on social media

Its the same as if a bully was trying to take lunch money from a kid half their size, and the kid decided to stand up to the bully and defend himself.... except you guys would blame the kid for not giving the bully his lunch money claiming he doesn't want peace.

If someone bigger and stronger than you and with more weapons than you , Comes up to you or anybody to rob them my advice is give them what they want.

It's not blaming the victim. It's the most logical step to prevent a far worse outcome.

If you wish to consider Ukraine a child go for it. Are you going to tell a child to fight the bigger kid who has a bat because giving up his money just isn't right ? I doubt it.

Are you going to give the smaller child a bat to fight back against a bully with? Sit back n watch it happen ?

Sorry I consider your analogy pretty flawed.

 

[Cole train]

If someone bigger and stronger than you and with more weapons than you , Comes up to you or anybody to rob them my advice is give them what they want.

It's not blaming the victim. It's the most logical step to prevent a far worse outcome.

If you wish to consider Ukraine a child go for it. Are you going to tell a child to fight the bigger kid who has a bat because giving up his money just isn't right ? I doubt it.

Are you going to give the smaller child a bat to fight back against a bully with? Sit back n watch it happen ?

Sorry I consider your analogy pretty flawed.

Russia is one of those "give them finger they will take entire hand" type people , your scenario might work with some other country but with rus i would advice against it.

(Ukrainians actually have similar mentality but they are not number 2 superpower in world)

 

[Anewt]

Russia is one of those "give them finger they will take entire hand" type people , your scenario might work with some other country but with rus i would advice against it.

(Ukrainians actually have similar mentality but they are not number 2 superpower in world)

Oh I get that. I just find the analogy flawed. (child bully ) that's all.

Completey logical why Ukraine is fighting imo. Still anti some of the decisions made myself but that's for Ukrainians to deal with one day.

 

[Cid]

If someone bigger and stronger than you and with more weapons than you , Comes up to you or anybody to rob them my advice is give them what they want.

It's not blaming the victim. It's the most logical step to prevent a far worse outcome.

If you wish to consider Ukraine a child go for it. Are you going to tell a child to fight the bigger kid who has a bat because giving up his money just isn't right ? I doubt it.

Are you going to give the smaller child a bat to fight back against a bully with? Sit back n watch it happen ?

Sorry I consider your analogy pretty flawed.

Himars are a little bit more effective than a bat sonny jim.

 

[Anewt]

Himars are a little bit more effective than a bat sonny jim.

Indeed but I figured for children analogy using artillery might be a bit excessive. " Well Jonny brought a mortar to pick on Fred with so we gave Fred himars " doesn't work for me either

Its like johnny having a little knife and giving Fred a bigger knife ? Just not a good analogy imo lol

 

[Cid]

Indeed but I figured for children analogy using artillery might be a bit excessive. " Well Jonny brought a mortar to pick on Fred with so we gave Fred himars " doesn't work for me either

Its like johnny having a little knife and giving Fred a bigger knife ? Just not a good analogy imo lol

More like Johnny has a knife and Uncle Sam gave Fred and AR-15 which you think he should lay down on the ground lest he be stabbed.

 

[Anewt]

More like Johnny has a knife and Uncle Sam gave Fred and AR-15 which you think he should lay down on the ground lest he be stabbed.

Did I ever say Ukraine shouldn't fight? I just don't think the bullying children analogy worked imo.

Nobody is going to arm their kid to deal with a bully. Guess who'd be to blame regardless which child ends up dead.

 

[AWilder]

Russia is one of those "give them finger they will take entire hand" type people , your scenario might work with some other country but with rus i would advice against it.

(Ukrainians actually have similar mentality but they are not number 2 superpower in world)

I mean... They are doing pretty good vs the "#2"

 

[Cole train]

I mean... They are doing pretty good vs the "#2"

Oh no doubt

I personally think rus needs mobilization to beat ukr which would mean likely end for putin as pres really so god emperor has to choose between a war that will go for some time or mobilization

 

[AWilder]

Oh no doubt

I personally think rus needs mobilization to beat ukr which would mean end for putin as pres really so god emperor has to choose between a war that will go for some time or mobilization

I've heard this said many times but I don't quite understand why mobilization is the breaking point of the Russian people?

 

[Cole train]

I've heard this said many times but I don't quite understand why mobilization is the breaking point of the Russian people?

Its not breaking point for people but for putin.His vote scores would go down to hell

No one cares about volunteers and pro military dying, but when average people from street start to get drafted shit starts happening

It was visible in chechnya in 90s, when 19 year old conscripts started dying public outcry was quite heavy

 

[Cid]

Did I ever say Ukraine shouldn't fight? I just don't think the bullying children analogy worked imo.

Nobody is going to arm their kid to deal with a bully. Guess who'd be to blame regardless which child ends up dead.

I think considering Russias goal is to steal land it's more akin to having your kid stand up to a thief.

This kid:

 

[Joe]

Its not breaking point for people but for putin.His vote scores would go down to hell

No one cares about volunteers and pro military dying, but when average people from street start to get drafted shit starts happening

It was visible in chechnya in 90s, when 19 year old conscripts started dying public outcry was quite heavy

The guys fighting are from distant lands in russia. Asian and tan ones. Real easy to not care about the war.

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[AWilder]

Did Russia intentionally give the host a setup that looks like he's in a boxing ring, or was that an internal decision?

that's been their format for a while.