International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V8

[PEB]

20k dead is probably a reasonable estimate.

Yes the Ukrainians have been very open about their KIA even James who is doing his second tour on the ground in Ukraine talks about the number of men and woman he lost in this war just around him. James is retired Army who decided to travel to Ukraine to help.

 

[Andy Capp]

You chose to ignore telling him a fair point. His opinion is viable but I think shortsighted as to why many nations are standing behind Ukraine. You're working yourself into a tizzy when I disengage a discussion after it devolves into silly speculation over a watch collection. Next time, I will be clear in what I am dismissing. Besides, Zelensky cares only about amassing olive drab t-shirts.

Weird; it didn't take long for people to forget he was a wealthy and very popular celebrity before entering politics. Before he proved his effectiveness as a leader and unwillingness to take the easy way out, it was used as an attack on him. Now that he didn't wash out on the first day of the attack, they conveniently neglect to consider that when pointing to his assets. Can't have inconvenient facts screwing up their narrative, right?

Similarly, when Putin started the invasion, all we heard from certain parties around here was that Ukraine should give up asap so more lives are spared. When that didn't pan out for them it shifted to "why are we wasting all this money?". Pathetic.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

The Ukranian casualties are probably very high at this point as well, considering the level of conscription they've been doing, and are also almost certainly significantly higher than the Russian casualties. They've essentially admitted this but of course we don't have published numbers for obvious reasons.

I would imagine 2 or 3 times higher. But it will probably be such a fog of lies from all sides that we will never know for sure.

 

[KaNesDeath]

So, Russian rebels?

No idea. We can all agree that it would be a political and military aid death sentence for Ukraine to car bomb someone in Russia.

 

[Vergilius]

80,000 according to the Department of Defense, and we all know American Intelligence is infallible and never lies. (Never mind that number is higher than the total professional component of the Russian ground forces and up 3 times the number of casualties as the total number of troops Russia had committed in Feb if u consider a 3-1 ratio of dead to wounded as standard)

In reality we will not get a realistic number on casualties of this war for many years after the fact, and will probably never get an accurate estimate of Ukrainian casualties for political purposes.

All we really know for sure 90% of the loses inflicted by both sides are a result of artillery exchanges (from data gathered in similar conflicts over the last 70 years) and Russia expends between 15 and 20 shells/rockets for every 1 the Ukrainians do.

80,000 according to the Department of Defense, and we all know American Intelligence is infallible and never lies. (Never mind that number is higher than the total professional component of the Russian ground forces and up 3 times the number of casualties as the total number of troops Russia had committed in Feb if u consider a 3-1 ratio of dead to wounded as standard)

In reality we will not get a realistic number on casualties of this war for many years after the fact, and will probably never get an accurate estimate of Ukrainian casualties for political purposes.

All we really know for sure 90% of the loses inflicted by both sides are a result of artillery exchanges (from data gathered in similar conflicts over the last 70 years) and Russia expends between 15 and 20 shells/rockets for every 1 the Ukrainians do.

Yeah does not seem logical at all

Rus had about 200k troops there at start so you saying potentially every 4th guy has been killed.

(Number might be 200k to 300k due to volunteers now)

The department of defense has NOT claimed 80.000 dead Russians. It has estimated 60.000 CASUALTIES (last I heard) which is dead + wounded + anyone incapacitated from combat for any other reasons. Some of you guys are very, very quick to yell propaganda! Without actually reading what your sources write with proper thoroughness. Very often, if you read articles from serious media outlets, they will report news from Ukraine with a caveat saying numbers etc. have not been independently verified.

Some media are sensationalist and will post exaggerated headlines for clicks, however even this is not propaganda! You can find some very good reporting from very knowledgeable sources if you care to look.

 

[Dalarna3]

Claiming that it was some kind of false flag violates Occam’s razor, unless Russia is going to do something serious to Estonia.

 

[Andy Capp]

Hmm.

So is he hated by some in Russia?

Because logically, if a guy is a boogeyman in the West only, that suggests this action may be Western-led?

No offense intended, but I believe your logic is flawed, to wit,
his being known in the West only does not mean he is the only one such known to the West,
but it does mean there are surely other targets available to a foreign entity and internally,
so his selection as a target (for whatever reason--if I had to venture a guess, I'd say he/they were saying the quiet part far too loudly for some tastes, tapping the fish tank, if you will) appears to have been permitted only because it wouldn't raise too much of a stink with that big 'v' in the Kremlin.

Of course, all of this is obviated if he was just plainly they target the could get to at the time in opportunistic fashion, as someone pointed out earlier, and it depends upon whether the claim of responsibility posted above can be falsified, obviously.

 

[Source]

80,000 according to the Department of Defense, and we all know American Intelligence is infallible and never lies. (Never mind that number is higher than the total professional component of the Russian ground forces and up 3 times the number of casualties as the total number of troops Russia had committed in Feb if u consider a 3-1 ratio of dead to wounded as standard)

In reality we will not get a realistic number on casualties of this war for many years after the fact, and will probably never get an accurate estimate of Ukrainian casualties for political purposes.

All we really know for sure 90% of the loses inflicted by both sides are a result of artillery exchanges (from data gathered in similar conflicts over the last 70 years) and Russia expends between 15 and 20 shells/rockets for every 1 the Ukrainians do.

Link to the DOD number?

Edit: I found an article. It wasn’t 80k deaths but total casualties. In the article the estimate includes mercenaries or at least Wagner. Which still seems quite high.

Disclaimer, I am not vetting the source against any other articles.
https://www.military.com/daily-news...ary-casualties-ukraine-pentagon-says.html/amp

 

[4daLuLZ]

No idea. We can all agree that it would be a political and military aid death sentence for Ukraine to car bomb someone in Russia.

Yeah because the US keeps that monopoly on striking hi value targets on foreign soil.

 

[MTT]

80,000 according to the Department of Defense, and we all know American Intelligence is infallible and never lies. (Never mind that number is higher than the total professional component of the Russian ground forces and up 3 times the number of casualties as the total number of troops Russia had committed in Feb if u consider a 3-1 ratio of dead to wounded as standard)

In reality we will not get a realistic number on casualties of this war for many years after the fact, and will probably never get an accurate estimate of Ukrainian casualties for political purposes.

All we really know for sure 90% of the loses inflicted by both sides are a result of artillery exchanges (from data gathered in similar conflicts over the last 70 years) and Russia expends between 15 and 20 shells/rockets for every 1 the Ukrainians do.

You know the difference between casualties and dead, when did DoD claim 80,000 dead? The Pentagon said in early August it estimates 70-80,000 casualties, which falls in line with their conservative estimates of 15-20,000 dead.

 

[MTT]

Russia allegedly claims the suspect in the car bombing is "Natalya Vovk", a member of Azov regiment, who left her ID card and fled to Estonia.

 

[Cole train]

The department of defense has NOT claimed 80.000 dead Russians. It has estimated 60.000 CASUALTIES (last I heard) which is dead + wounded + anyone incapacitated from combat for any other reasons. Some of you guys are very, very quick to yell propaganda! Without actually reading what your sources write with proper thoroughness. Very often, if you read articles from serious media outlets, they will report news from Ukraine with a caveat saying numbers etc. have not been independently verified.

Some media are sensationalist and will post exaggerated headlines for clicks, however even this is not propaganda! You can find some very good reporting from very knowledgeable sources if you care to look.

Dont think i have ever said anything about propaganda

 

[Err]

Anyone have cliff notes for the last few months, I stopped following in June. Has the Russian offensive that was going to crush Ukraine and cut off the salient in Donbas happened yet? All the shills were hyped about it.

 

[syct23]

Russia allegedly claims the suspect in the car bombing is "Natalya Vovk", a member of Azov regiment, who left her ID card and fled to Estonia.

Her lips alone would have acted as a natural airbag to prevent any harm from the explosion..

 

[Andy Capp]

well you are trying to make it an authoritarian, controlling state.
we don't like the news? it's propaganda!
yeah, let all news come from the DoD. surely they will always tell the truth.
this is how authoritarian control creeps in.

and i don't see how a list of rich russians buying houses in america is relevant.

You don't? I suggest you think about it some more.

 

[Denter]

Russia allegedly claims the suspect in the car bombing is "Natalya Vovk", a member of Azov regiment, who left her ID card and fled to Estonia.

I'm reading that there is footage of her entering and exiting Russia at the border as well as entering the house where the future victim stayed.

 

[MTT]

I'm reading that there is footage of her entering and exiting Russia at the border as well as entering the house where the future victim stayed.

Since this is new, most of the juicy info is on Russian telegram and I am an ignorant single language andy. Where is @Zinger when you need him!?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

You don't? I suggest you think about it some more.

You do? I suggest you think about it some more.

 

[Source]

Russia blames Darya Dugina’s killing on female Ukrainian assassin

Officials with FSB have identified Darya Dugina’s alleged assassin as 43-year-old Natalia Vovk, who they said was acting as part of a criminal plot “orchestrated and perpetrated by Ukrainian special services,” according to Russian state news agency TASS.


https://nypost.com/2022/08/22/russia-blames-darya-duginas-killing-on-ukrainian-spy/amp/

 

[Strychnine]

No idea. We can all agree that it would be a political and military aid death sentence for Ukraine to car bomb someone in Russia.

Not a good look, that's for certain.