International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V7

[Deleted member 585708]

Sad reality most don't get is Russia is winning. km by km after initial FSB fail of country would roll over like Spot at first sign of Russian invasion. They didnt so Russia went into grinding artillery mode and laying waste to everything within 30km of it's path.

Once President Biden is told this he will have two choices. Give up and leave Russia controlling the most profitable parts of Ukraine, or USA vs Russia.

Interesting.

Completely the opposite of almost all major intelligence experts

 

[12ga.]

Ukrainian nazis isn't even meant to convince anyone with a working brain, it's justification purely aimed at zombified babushkas and drunk old men in Russia. There is only one country of murdering fascists in this war, and it's the side with Z painted on all their tanks.

This is counterfactual
Congress even sanctioned Nazis of Ukraine.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...ersial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
Furthermore tones of articles written about them prior to war we have now
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

Truth is not allowed out now because so much at stake.

 

[Anewt]

Ukrainian nazis isn't even meant to convince anyone with a working brain, it's justification purely aimed at zombified babushkas and drunk old men in Russia. There is only one country of murdering fascists in this war, and it's the side with Z painted on all their tanks.

Lol no.

 

[12ga.]

Interesting.

Completely the opposite of almost all major intelligence experts

Most experts said we were winning Afghanistan too until Taliban rolled capital while we did a Saigon.

 

[Strychnine]

 

[Anewt]

You not been following for the past week?

Azov is defeated.

There are no Nazis in the Ukrainian army.

So does that mean Russia denazified them ? Achieved one of their stated goals ? I'm quite sure your not saying that.

So what are you actually saying? Apart from trying to instantly dismiss the topic

 

[French Canadian]

Ukrainian nazis isn't even meant to convince anyone with a working brain, it's justification purely aimed at zombified babushkas and drunk old men in Russia. There is only one country of murdering fascists in this war, and it's the side with Z painted on all their tanks.

That Russia invaded Ukraine because of the presence of Nazi is of course bullshit. That Ukrainians have a 'complex' relationship with nazism is true, though. In Canada, there are Ukrainian cemetaries with Nazi statues (one in Oakville and one in Edmonton; Jewish orgs have asked them to remove them, but they are still there). In Ukraine proper, things are a lot worst.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs twitted a picture of a woman with a black sun - a Neo-Nazi symbol, which was also on the insigna of the Azov Battalion - on her vest:


Extremist kinds of nationalism or of religiosity (or both mixed) emerge in period of crises. It's not a sufficient excuse to invade a country. But denying that it exists just gives ammo to the invader. One can acknowledge that Ukraine has problems with forms of extreme-right movements (and there are many pre-war articles that say it as well, for example: Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem | Reuters) AND say that the aggression is completely unjustified.

 

[Zinger]

For the idiots still falling for the russian line of its about nazis

According to Russia, just because you're a Jew, doesn't mean you can't be a Nazi.

So these could be Nazis training other Nazis.

 

[SandisLL]

Ukrainian nazis isn't even meant to convince anyone with a working brain, it's justification purely aimed at zombified babushkas and drunk old men in Russia. There is only one country of murdering fascists in this war, and it's the side with Z painted on all their tanks.

+ some brainless westerners too.

Reality most likely is that war does have deep economical reasons.

Interesting reality is that 1992-2007 Russia wasn't interested about " nazi in ukraine " cinema style tales...

While when 2008 th world financial crisis started and Kremlin needed " excuses ", they launched anti western campaign to brainwash ppl in Russia.
Better if plebs are thinking about " evil west " not about their own perspective and very rich oligarchs & kleptocrats.

+ then, most likely smelling ongoing big crisis, Ukraine and Georgia attempted to get " more close " to west.
EU and there.... country should improve anti money laundering and anti tax evasion measures......
___
Vuala, quickly both : Ukraine and Georgia had been declared as " bad countries ".
What a coincidence....
Moldova....
After they started improve anti money laundering measures....Russia banned their vine import in Russia.

What a strange coincidences___

___
Now again: ofc everyone with brains does know that nor NATO nor EU had accepted Ukraine during next x years.
With 0 variants here...

However again: Ukraine should had reduced corruption, improve control and so on.
Plus candidate status if they had get .. had ....increased western businesses impact in Ukraine.
Again not good for Russia and kleptocrats.


Therefore as excuse this nato tale and nazi tales are used.


As expected....

 

[lsa]

NATO beer with 'taste of security' and 'hint of freedom' released in Finland to mark move to join alliance

"A brewery in Finland has released a NATO-themed beer in celebration of the Scandinavian country's move to join the alliance, the Associated Press reported.

The beer, brewed by Olaf Brewing Company, is called the OTAN lager. The name plays off of a Finnish expression for "I'll have a beer" and the French abbreviation for NATO ("OTAN"), the AP said.

CEO Petteri Vanttinen told the AP that the beer has "a taste of security, with a hint of freedom," and that he was inspired to brew it by "worries over the war in Ukraine."

The beer's can depicts a medieval night holding a beer and wearing armor that features the NATO symbol."
NATO beer with 'taste of security' and 'hint of freedom' released in Finland to mark move to join alliance (msn.com)

Finland is not even a part of Scandinavia.

 

[Gandzooka]

 

[Dalarna3]

Russia should probably bring forward other professional units and conscripts. They're limited to moving at a snail's pace due to manpower constraints. Ukraine should focus on building quality new units.

 

[Rygu]

Inflation, gas prices, food prices are slowly eroding the western world.

The ruble which everyone made fun of for crashing has recovered and then some vs the US dollar.

There's fear over a potential food shortage, diesel prices are insane and those who understand the ripple effect knows whats coming after that, stocks and the economy in general are looking bad and are nowhere near the bottom.

Not sure Putin cares much about what is going on in Ukraine when he's winning in every other possible way and will do his best to keep the Ukraine conflict going as long as he deems necessary. He played the long game, the rest of the world played the short one. He's straight up cucked several European countries recently who cannot live without Russian oil.

When all is said and done, who will have taken the biggest hit economically when compared to pre-Ukraine conflict Russia or Europe/America?

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Inflation, gas prices, food prices are slowly eroding the western world.

The ruble which everyone made fun of for crashing has recovered and then some vs the US dollar.

There's fear over a potential food shortage, diesel prices are insane and those who understand the ripple effect knows whats coming after that, stocks and the economy in general are looking bad and are nowhere near the bottom.

Not sure Putin cares much about what is going on in Ukraine when he's winning in every other possible way and will do his best to keep the Ukraine conflict going as long as he deems necessary. He played the long game, the rest of the world played the short one. He's straight up cucked several European countries recently who cannot live without Russian oil.

When all is said and done, who will have taken the biggest hit economically when compared to pre-Ukraine conflict Russia or Europe/America?

Obviously Russia.

Without a single doubt whatsoever.

Putin papered over the cracks.

 

[dreden1982]

Obviously i'm naive but how are there Slavic Nazis? Ukrainian Clayton Bigsbys?

 

[SandisLL]

Inflation, gas prices, food prices are slowly eroding the western world.

The ruble which everyone made fun of for crashing has recovered and then some vs the US dollar.

There's fear over a potential food shortage, diesel prices are insane and those who understand the ripple effect knows whats coming after that, stocks and the economy in general are looking bad
When all is said and done, who will have taken the biggest hit economically when compared to pre-Ukraine conflict Russia or Europe/America?

You mean natural gas prices?
Sad reality is that huge price increase had been predicted in 2006-2007 and some investors decided to pull huge money in NPPs projects for a reason as we see today...
Also the same energo effectivity stuff and so on since 2007-2008 had been launched for a reason.


Natural gas prices had increased very seriously in 2021 th...
october, november, december, january and continued to increase in february even before ukraine shit had startred.
At least in europe. Just ppl who are paying fixed for 12 months contracts with fixed price didn't had saw this.
While these who paid monthly bills based on monthly average market price....had saw hell coming even before Ukraine shit had started...

It is what this is.


Next stuff that replace the same vegetable oil supplies form the same Ukr is....hell if compare how easy is to replace crude oil supplier...+ vegetable oil is more expensive...


In europe a lot of diesel and gasoline price effect does have tax, it is 47,5-52,5% from fuel price.

Add here biofuel additition.
5-10% bioethanol for gasoline ...
Biodiesel for diesel fuel...
Guess, doesn't this rise food prices?
How biodiesel is made?
Usually from rapsseed oil, other vegetable oils, buy products from ethanol production.
All this costs more than the same volume with gasoline or diesel fuel...

___
In some EU countries 40% from produced vegetable oils are processed into....biodiesel.

I know some agricultural business ppl who are turning approx 1/3 their agricultular production into....BIOGAS...
Now even some governments are concerned and attempts to push laws that biogas should be produced only from WASTE with limited add of agriculture production ....

 

[SandisLL]

Biogas in agriculture business is good thing, especially cos you should deal with manure.....anyway...
However it is BIG difference: you use manure with small adds from agricultural production.
OR... use 1/3 from your land property to grew up stuff with intent to put this together with manure in BIOGAS reactor's tank.

Ofc, there are businesses where biogas production helps to reduce waste, bills for waste handling!, bills for energy : beweries, waste water treatment plants and bioethanol production plants :: there this is justified and might help to keep businesses afloat.
Landfill gas: the same... Emmisions quotas alone...matters a lot...

 

[SandisLL]

Ukr anyway had been used as pawn.
When they had cleptocracy, corruption and nepotism, tax evasion and money laundering & bribes as cultural norm...
salaries lower than in Russia and oligarchs& kleptocrats happy...
Interestingly .....no one had been concerned to do propaganda stuff like " nazis ", " nationalists " and no one cared about " russian speakers in Ukraine ".
Sure cos no one will bother will you have where to live as local guy in Moscow, not alone...about ants in poor areas or God Help you...aboard...


So Ukraine IMHO had 2 choices: be pawn in debts and in poverty under russian kleptocrats OR.... hope to be pawn for western creditors and banks etc...forewer...

More than this: if they aren't dumb, in 2008 th already should had get what is thing EU wants from them.
They had been showed their place in relatively rude but open manner....


_
Biggest Ukraine's problem is that no one wants them not to be poor...
Nor Russia& Belarus, nor west and EU nor also even Middle East and Africa.
Businessmans too are more confortable if workforce is cheap and living from paycheck till paycheck.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

That Russia invaded Ukraine because of the presence of Nazi is of course bullshit. That Ukrainians have a 'complex' relationship with nazism is true, though. In Canada, there are Ukrainian cemetaries with Nazi statues (one in Oakville and one in Edmonton; Jewish orgs have asked them to remove them, but they are still there). In Ukraine proper, things are a lot worst.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs twitted a picture of a woman with a black sun - a Neo-Nazi symbol, which was also on the insigna of the Azov Battalion - on her vest:


Extremist kinds of nationalism or of religiosity (or both mixed) emerge in period of crises. It's not a sufficient excuse to invade a country. But denying that it exists just gives ammo to the invader. One can acknowledge that Ukraine has problems with forms of extreme-right movements (and there are many pre-war articles that say it as well, for example: Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem | Reuters) AND say that the aggression is completely unjustified.

I do think though it is an issue that is bound up in what has been happening in Ukraine over the last 20 years or more, this kind of extremism is linked to Ukrainian nationalism and anti Russian sentiment and honestly I do think there is a question of whether we tended to turn a blind eye to it in the west because it benefited our position of trying to turn Ukraine towards western influence. I mean going back to 2014 the Euro Maiden protests did as far as I can tell have a significant amount of far right involvement in the more violent aspects.

That doesnt justify Russian actions of course but I think it has helped to provide a propaganda justification for them, I would say as well that I don't think we can be totally blind to whats happening in Ukraine having some of its roots in ethnic division. Putin is looking to exploit that doubtless but I think we really do need to make sure it doesnt become an ethnic conflict on the Ukrainian side as well, I think there is the potential again to turn a blind eye to that because it might help our interests or just because Putin on the other side is obviously behaving immorally but I think it has the potential to make the situation much worse and cause further Russian aggression.

I would make it clear I'm not making any claims the above has happened, honestly I'v not kept up with the conflict partly to avoid stress but also because I think if you were looking into that kind of thing it would be hard to avoid Russian propaganda on the net, you would probably need to devote a lot of time and a very keen eye to research and verification to be sure.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

So does that mean Russia denazified them ? Achieved one of their stated goals ? I'm quite sure your not saying that.

So what are you actually saying? Apart from trying to instantly dismiss the topic

Why would I not say that?

Denazifying Ukraine was a nonsense from day one, there was no more requirement for Russia to invade Ukraine than there was for the United States to invade Ukraine.

It's preposterous.

But sure, now that Mariupol has fallen, and most of the East of Ukraine is decimated structurally-speaking, you can say Russia has successfully 'denazified' Ukraine, for whatever that's worth.

Given that's obviously not a real goal, I'm not expecting Russia to declare 'victory' until they've completed a bunch of sham referendums and 'integrated' a couple of cities, which now seems to be their latest goal on the ever-changing scale.

The problem is, as many pointed out since day one, that's not a good victory as it likely leads to an endless insurgency as Russians aren't wanted in Ukraine, aren't seen as liberators, and their acquisition is now worthless due to the heavy fighting.

Other than that, though, Putin can pretend he's 'won' something, which is actually critical to de-escalating this situation.