Russia/Ukraine Megathread V6

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There are 2 airport operations, one was constantly swining back and forth. This one, the UAF waited until the Russians where in and started harrassing them at night

Oh without a doubt Ukraine constantly put them under pressure ( I'd assume ) causing a loss of men and equipment they wouldn't have expected.

Once disembarked, the Russian airborne units began to capture the airport. Russian forces initially secured the airport,[5] evicting a small number of National Guard defenders which had been stationed at the locality.[8] This success was due to the Ukrainian military being taken by surprise by the speed of the initial Russian attack, despite the preparations made after the CIA's warning.[15] The paratroopers then began preparing for the arrival of 18 Ilyushin Il-76 strategic airlifters carrying fresh troops from Russia.[21] However, the paratroopers were soon beset by local armed civilians and the 3rd Special Purpose Regiment.[8] At the "critical moment" of the battle,[8] a large-scale Ukrainian counterattack was launched by the 4th Rapid Reaction Brigade of the National Guard,[5] backed by the Ukrainian Air Force.[8] Lacking armored vehicles, the Russian forces were dependent on air support to stave off the Ukrainian advances. Two Russian Su-25s were witnessed attacking Ukrainian positions. Ukrainian warplanes which survived the opening Russian missile strikes took part in providing air support for the National Guard units; these included at least two Su-24s and a MiG-29.[5] The Ukrainians were swift in rushing more troops to the airport to support the counter-attack. These reinforcements included the Georgian Legion,[7] and a unit of the Ukrainian Air Assault Forces.[6] With the battle ongoing, the Russian Ilyushin Il-76 could not land; they were possibly forced to return to Russia.[21]

After encircling the airport, the Ukrainians drove out the Russian forces by the evening. The surviving Russian airborne troops retreated to the woods outside of the airport.[5][22][23][24][25] Georgian Legion commander Mamuka Mamulashvili later claimed that his men ran out of ammunition in the battle, whereupon he used his car to run over retreating Russian paratroopers.[7] Later, the 4th Rapid Reaction Brigade posted on their Facebook page an image of their soldiers celebrating the victory, while holding a Ukrainian flag riddled with bullet holes.
[


This maybe where the Ilyushin being shot down came from? It's the only reference I've found in regards to that plane. Apart from non confirmed reports..


The next day

On 25 February 2022, Russian mechanized ground forces advancing from Belarus combined with another air assault by the VDV, took control of the airport after partially breaking through Ukrainian defenses at the Battle of Ivankiv.[19][29] Some of the armored vehicles were ambushed before reaching Hostomel, halting the reinforcements for a time, but nonetheless they entered the airport and helped to expel the Ukrainian defenders.[8] According to the Russian Ministry of Defence,[30] the capture came following an operation that involved some 200 helicopters. The figure of about 200 Ukrainian casualties and no casualties on the Russian side was announced ( Lol as if ).[9] This claim was met with skepticism, with Timur Olevsky, a journalist who witnessed the battle, outright refuting this claim.[5][19] Nevertheless, Russian ground forces established a foothold in Hostomel and began to man checkpoints inside the town. It was speculated that the Ukrainian defenders may have sabotaged the runway ahead of the advancing Russian ground forces.[5]

The Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs initially denied that the airport had been fully captured by the Russian forces, stating that it had been "changing hands" and that the battle was ongoing. The Ministry of Internal Affairs also insisted that the Russian claim of the massive Ukrainian casualties was "an absolute lie",[31] while the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence declared that the airfield was too badly damaged to be used by Russian troops.[13] Later in the day, Ukraine confirmed that Russian forces were in control of thairport.

As of 27 February 2022, the airport remained under Russian control as clashes began to shift to the towns of Bucha and Irpin to the south,[43] where Ukrainian forces claimed to have halted the Russian advances, contesting Russian forces in Hostomel amid intense fighting.[44][45][46][47] On 27 February, the Security Service of Ukraine released an alleged intercepted conversation of Russian forces in Hostomel reporting casualties and requesting to be evacuated.[48][49]


Then there's very little reports on the airport for a month untill they withdrew. Id lean to your theory of night attacks and constant harassment personally.

As of 28 March 2022, satellite imagery showed no Russian forces inside the airport.[55] On 29 March, Russian Deputy Minister of Defense Alexander Fomin announced a withdrawal of Russian forces from the Kyiv area,[56] including the abandonment of Hostomel Airport.[57]

By 2 April, Ukrainian forces had regained control of the airport following a large-scale Russian withdrawal along the Kyiv axis.[58] In their hasty retreat, Russian troops destroyed much of their own equipment, while other materiel was captured intact by the Ukrainians. In addition, other Russian equipment had been destroyed by Ukrainian artillery strikes before the withdrawal. Overall, Russia lost at least 7 armoured fighting vehicles, 23 infantry fighting vehicles, 3 armoured personnel carriers, 1 anti-aircraft gun, 2 field artillery pieces, 3 helicopters, as well as 67 trucks, vehicles and jeeps at Antonov Airport.[15]


Too be honest... I'm surprised they even cared enough about their troops to withdraw them , I thought Russia was far more dismissive of lives than its hardware.
 
Im actually not a fan of them showing this

When i served tunnels were considered classified stuff

Seems a bad idea to me as well..

( good they got em tho ) but no need to point them out
 
I think the southern push to link Crimea and donbas and annihilate Mauripol would have been a faaaar harder task without having those forces worrying about Kiev rather
Oh without a doubt Ukraine constantly put them under pressure ( I'd assume ) causing a loss of men and equipment they wouldn't have expected.

Once disembarked, the Russian airborne units began to capture the airport. Russian forces initially secured the airport,[5] evicting a small number of National Guard defenders which had been stationed at the locality.[8] This success was due to the Ukrainian military being taken by surprise by the speed of the initial Russian attack, despite the preparations made after the CIA's warning.[15] The paratroopers then began preparing for the arrival of 18 Ilyushin Il-76 strategic airlifters carrying fresh troops from Russia.[21] However, the paratroopers were soon beset by local armed civilians and the 3rd Special Purpose Regiment.[8] At the "critical moment" of the battle,[8] a large-scale Ukrainian counterattack was launched by the 4th Rapid Reaction Brigade of the National Guard,[5] backed by the Ukrainian Air Force.[8] Lacking armored vehicles, the Russian forces were dependent on air support to stave off the Ukrainian advances. Two Russian Su-25s were witnessed attacking Ukrainian positions. Ukrainian warplanes which survived the opening Russian missile strikes took part in providing air support for the National Guard units; these included at least two Su-24s and a MiG-29.[5] The Ukrainians were swift in rushing more troops to the airport to support the counter-attack. These reinforcements included the Georgian Legion,[7] and a unit of the Ukrainian Air Assault Forces.[6] With the battle ongoing, the Russian Ilyushin Il-76 could not land; they were possibly forced to return to Russia.[21]

After encircling the airport, the Ukrainians drove out the Russian forces by the evening. The surviving Russian airborne troops retreated to the woods outside of the airport.[5][22][23][24][25] Georgian Legion commander Mamuka Mamulashvili later claimed that his men ran out of ammunition in the battle, whereupon he used his car to run over retreating Russian paratroopers.[7] Later, the 4th Rapid Reaction Brigade posted on their Facebook page an image of their soldiers celebrating the victory, while holding a Ukrainian flag riddled with bullet holes.
[


This maybe where the Ilyushin being shot down came from? It's the only reference I've found in regards to that plane. Apart from non confirmed reports..


The next day

On 25 February 2022, Russian mechanized ground forces advancing from Belarus combined with another air assault by the VDV, took control of the airport after partially breaking through Ukrainian defenses at the Battle of Ivankiv.[19][29] Some of the armored vehicles were ambushed before reaching Hostomel, halting the reinforcements for a time, but nonetheless they entered the airport and helped to expel the Ukrainian defenders.[8] According to the Russian Ministry of Defence,[30] the capture came following an operation that involved some 200 helicopters. The figure of about 200 Ukrainian casualties and no casualties on the Russian side was announced ( Lol as if ).[9] This claim was met with skepticism, with Timur Olevsky, a journalist who witnessed the battle, outright refuting this claim.[5][19] Nevertheless, Russian ground forces established a foothold in Hostomel and began to man checkpoints inside the town. It was speculated that the Ukrainian defenders may have sabotaged the runway ahead of the advancing Russian ground forces.[5]

The Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs initially denied that the airport had been fully captured by the Russian forces, stating that it had been "changing hands" and that the battle was ongoing. The Ministry of Internal Affairs also insisted that the Russian claim of the massive Ukrainian casualties was "an absolute lie",[31] while the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence declared that the airfield was too badly damaged to be used by Russian troops.[13] Later in the day, Ukraine confirmed that Russian forces were in control of thairport.

As of 27 February 2022, the airport remained under Russian control as clashes began to shift to the towns of Bucha and Irpin to the south,[43] where Ukrainian forces claimed to have halted the Russian advances, contesting Russian forces in Hostomel amid intense fighting.[44][45][46][47] On 27 February, the Security Service of Ukraine released an alleged intercepted conversation of Russian forces in Hostomel reporting casualties and requesting to be evacuated.[48][49]


Then there's very little reports on the airport for a month untill they withdrew. Id lean to your theory of night attacks and constant harassment personally.

As of 28 March 2022, satellite imagery showed no Russian forces inside the airport.[55] On 29 March, Russian Deputy Minister of Defense Alexander Fomin announced a withdrawal of Russian forces from the Kyiv area,[56] including the abandonment of Hostomel Airport.[57]

By 2 April, Ukrainian forces had regained control of the airport following a large-scale Russian withdrawal along the Kyiv axis.[58] In their hasty retreat, Russian troops destroyed much of their own equipment, while other materiel was captured intact by the Ukrainians. In addition, other Russian equipment had been destroyed by Ukrainian artillery strikes before the withdrawal. Overall, Russia lost at least 7 armoured fighting vehicles, 23 infantry fighting vehicles, 3 armoured personnel carriers, 1 anti-aircraft gun, 2 field artillery pieces, 3 helicopters, as well as 67 trucks, vehicles and jeeps at Antonov Airport.[15]


Too be honest... I'm surprised they even cared enough about their troops to withdraw them , I thought Russia was far more dismissive of lives than its hardware.

the russians at the airport got barely any resupply. They held it because the Ukrainians let them hold it. Ukrainians were probably hoping for that fleet of transports to arrive so they could destroy it with manpads and artillery. The airport was a very important strategic asset for russian logistics. There was no feint. they wanted the airport. they got the airport. however, they couldn't use the airport because their backup never arrived and by the time it did the airport was unusable. That's a big L for russia. painting it as anything but is disingenuous.
 
the russians at the airport got barely any resupply. They held it because the Ukrainians let them hold it. Ukrainians were probably hoping for that fleet of transports to arrive so they could destroy it with manpads and artillery. The airport was a very important strategic asset for russian logistics. There was no feint. they wanted the airport. they got the airport. however, they couldn't use the airport because their backup never arrived and by the time it did the airport was unusable. That's a big L for russia. painting it as anything but is disingenuous.

Fair enough mate. I disagree. Bucha and irpin are further south towards Kiev. Past the airport ....

Makes sense. Let the Russians past and take areas Further south and towards Kiev.... because they were hoping for a fleet of transports to arrive at the airport... behind the Russian front lines?

The battle of Irpin was part of the Kyiv offensive in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine for control of the city of Irpin. The combatants were elements of the Russian Armed Forces and Ukrainian Ground Forces. The battle lasted from 27 February 2022 to 28 March 2022 and ended with Ukrainian forces recapturing the city.


Yeah... ... I think it's far more likely ukraine was fighting south of the airport for the month of march than " waiting for Russia to bring more troops in."..... so they could destroy more transports....

Because they withdrew.... completely and Ukraine still took days to reoccupy.. you're telling me that Ukrainians allowed bucha and irpin to suffer. Because they were waiting for russian transports?

On 16 March, according to the Ukrainian military, its forces launched a counter-attack against Russian-held locations around Kyiv, including in Bucha.[70]

On 22 March, the head of the Kyiv Regional Military Administration, Oleksandr Pavlyuk, stated that Bucha and Hostomel were under the control of the Russian army and that no Ukrainian offensive actions could be taken there at the time. The main task of the Ukrainian military was to prevent Russian forces from crossing the Irpin River.[71]

..........




 
Gettin paid by the post I'm assuming
For his sake, I hope it aint in rubles

Lol I've proven my points... that airport was held for a month.. the 2 transport deaths off 900 odd paratroopers doesn't exist ( that I've found )

Here's where you just post a gif...
 
Lol I've proven my points... that airport was held for a month.. the 2 transport deaths off 900 odd paratroopers doesn't exist ( that I've found )

Here's where you just post a gif...
My dude, no matter which hill you choose to die on, there's no universe in which this entire thing hasn't been a monstrous faceplant for Russia at literally every step. And that includes the slow motion, self inflicted shotgun blast that was their attempt to take Kyiv.
Bu bu but that convoy wasn't even fully prepped! Yeah, we know. Putin playing 4th dimensional Monopoly while everyone else is stuck playing checkers in our own reality.
 
My dude, no matter which hill you choose to die on, there's no universe in which this entire thing hasn't been a monstrous faceplant for Russia at literally every step. And that includes the slow motion, self inflicted shotgun blast that was their attempt to take Kyiv.
Bu bu but that convoy wasn't even fully prepped! Yeah, we know. Putin playing 4th dimensional Monopoly while everyone else is stuck playing checkers in our own reality.

did I ever say Russia was successful? Or will be? From the very start I've said there's no way they take Ukraine or Kiev . Countless times I've stated Russia has failed and is taking far greater losses than they've expected.

You guys are just so balls deep in the propaganda..


" transport jets were shot down "

" over 900 elite paratroopers in 2 planes "

" their elites were butchered "

" they didn't hold the airport or if they did its because Ukraine let them "

Lol
 
did I ever say Russia was successful? Or will be? From the very start I've said there's no way they take Ukraine or Kiev . Countless times I've stated Russia has failed and is taking far greater losses than they've expected.

You guys are just so balls deep in the propaganda..


" transport jets were shot down "

" over 900 elite paratroopers in 2 planes "

" their elites were butchered "

" they didn't hold the airport or if they did its because Ukraine let them "

Lol
"I've said over and over Russia is doing badly, but I must white knight them for the sake of fighting the Western propaganda."
<seedat>
 
Nope.... I like the truth...
Sure you do, comrade. Suuure you do.
13693588701214.png
 
Nope.... I like the truth...

No you're not. You're coming up with the dumbest tactical battle plan to excuse a piss poor performance or to seem contrarian for the sake of it.

There was a clear massing of troops in the North that served no other purpose than to swing towards Kiev. You had supply units trying to break through by swinging southwest with the only tactical reasoning was to create a line from the outskirts of Kiev back towards the Russian staging areas North of the border. None of that serves any purpose for a feint.

A proper feint would be staging just enough assets to freeze units opposing you without sustaining massive casualties. Your analysis makes no sense. It isn't sound, and pointing out that some of those units managed to persist around the capital for a month or so while their supply lines got blown to fuck and achieved nothing of consequence, other than shelling civilian areas, doesn't make sense.

What you clearly had, was a multi-pronged attack that went to shit for all the reasons that have been thoroughly documented. Uncoordinated Russians units not pushing in a coordinated manner; disjointed timelines letting units push too far forward without proper support; and a failure of the necessary breakthrough that was needed to actually reinforce them.

And the reaction from the Ukrainians wasn't, as you suggest, a drawing away of units that were needed elsewhere. Those units in the east did just fine, and performed in the same overall fashion as the units defending the capital. They refused to be drawn into a large scale open conflict with superior Russian numbers, managed the routes too and from major units effectively; isolated them; defeated any attempts at breakthroughs or linking of units; and then chewed them up piecemeal.

So no. Overall, a terrible analysis.
 
No you're not. You're coming up with the dumbest tactical battle plan to excuse a piss poor performance or to seem contrarian for the sake of it.

There was a clear massing of troops in the North that served no other purpose than to swing towards Kiev. You had supply units trying to break through by swinging southwest with the only tactical reasoning was to create a line from the outskirts of Kiev back towards the Russian staging areas North of the border. None of that serves any purpose for a feint.

A proper feint would be staging just enough assets to freeze units opposing you without sustaining massive casualties. Your analysis makes no sense. It isn't sound, and pointing out that some of those units managed to persist around the capital for a month or so while their supply lines got blown to fuck and achieved nothing of consequence, other than shelling civilian areas, doesn't make sense.

What you clearly had, was a multi-pronged attack that went to shit for all the reasons that have been thoroughly documented. Uncoordinated Russians units not pushing in a coordinated manner; disjointed timelines letting units push too far forward without proper support; and a failure of the necessary breakthrough that was needed to actually reinforce them.

And the reaction from the Ukrainians wasn't, as you suggest, a drawing away of units that were needed elsewhere. Those units in the east did just fine, and performed in the same overall fashion as the units defending the capital. They refused to be drawn into a large scale open conflict with superior Russian numbers, managed the routes too and from major units effectively; isolated them; defeated any attempts at breakthroughs or linking of units; and then chewed them up piecemeal.

So no. Overall, a terrible analysis.

Nope. Not making excuses for a piss poor battle plan... been saying it from day one. And yes it could very well be a terrible analysis and a piss poor battle plan..

That aside... this all started because I wanted the source for this claim

They also lost a jet carrying 450 paratroops,


But plenty of people are aware that is has forced munitions and resources away from the South and east. Despite your claim.. I guess Russia just got lucky and it was a coincidence....

That the Russians had embarked upon a bad plan which it had executed poorly should not
overshadow the intensity of the fighting for the Ukrainians. The Ukrainian military had concluded
that its centre of gravity was the capital and had prioritised its defence for artillery systems, air
defences, anti-tank weapons and reserves.19 Even in this it had been forced to reinforce the
west bank of the Dnipro River at the expense of the east. Troops in Donbas and Mariupol were
ordered to buy time but found themselves short of key munitions. In the south, the Ukrainians
knew they were vulnerable. As a senior Ukrainian planner noted before the invasion, ‘we just
don’t have anything there to stop them. They’ll take a lot of ground’.20 Mariupol’s defenders
far exceeded the expectations of the Ukrainian General Staff in their resistance, refusing to
surrender or evacuate, and fighting desperately to get supplies of ammunition and food into the
city and preserve water.21 Eventually the Russians isolated the defence and have since conducted
a systematic shelling that has devastated vast swathes of the urban environment.


Across northeastern Ukraine the fighting was intense. Ukrainian stay-behind units fought with
determination but were eventually cleared out of occupied towns. Shelling inflicted heavy
casualties on Ukrainian units while the volume of 30-mm cannon fire proved devastating in the
close fight.22 As a Ukrainian General Officer noted, ‘the Russian equipment works as effectively
as we feared, but it was incompetently employed’.23

Several of Ukraine’s most experienced special forces personnel were killed or wounded in the fighting. While these units galvanised
the defence of urban strong points, or infiltrated northwards to attack Russian logistics convoys,
at times the Ukrainians had to rely on the sheer mass of mobilised volunteers to stem the
Russian advance.

Eventually the Kremlin realised that pushing more forces south would not lead to progress. So long as they were moving along the same MSRs they would suffer heavily from artillery. Nor did the units in place have the combat power to break into the Ukrainian capital.

The decision was therefore taken to withdraw and to refocus efforts on Donbas.24

Russian units retreating from Kyiv on the Belarus axis were put under a withering and sustained barrage as Ukrainian artillery followed their retreat northwards.

Ukraine emerged from the assault on Kyiv with its government still in possession of the capital, but with a battered and weary army facing
a slowly deteriorating position in the south.

The announcement of the reorientation of Russian operations to Donbas left a number of
Western analysts bemused by the gap between Russia’s aspirations and its capabilities.25 Some
analysts26 – including one of the authors of this report27 – assumed that the initial intent to
announce a success on 9 May would force this offensive to be launched early, and there was a
general consensus among Western observers that the Russian military lacked the combat power
in the region to execute the operation. In the meantime, however, it was evident that thinking
in the Kremlin had evolved. The appointment of a single military commander for operations
in Ukraine in early April – General Alexander Dvornikov28 – signalled the assertion of primacy
for the Ministry of Defence in planning, wresting the direction of the war from Russia’s FSB.
The Russian military appears to have concluded that it needed time, and that the seizure of
the south would in any case require more troops
in the summer, which it began to muster.29

9 May therefore appears to have moved from a deadline to an inflection point to galvanise a
wider mobilisation.


Despite the need to build up sufficient forces for Russia’s revised objective in Donbas, delay
also posed risks. As Western aid stepped up and began to flow into Ukraine, the longer the
offensive was withheld the harder the fight would be for the Russians.30 Compounding this
threat was that limited Ukrainian thrusts risked seeing Russian gains around Kharkiv deteriorate
unless they expended increasingly limited frontline supplies of artillery ammunition to stave
off attacks.31 Russia has sought to pin down Ukrainian air defences around the country by
continuing to conduct ballistic and cruise missile strikes on cities,32 but – unwilling to see its
position progressively deteriorate – Russia has now had to start the operation.33


However, the operation in Donbas cannot be decisive. Russia may seize Donbas, but Ukraine
cannot accept a ceasefire on these terms, as this would enable a consolidation of Russian gains that would offer Russia the opportunity to annex Ukraine piece by piece.34

For Ukraine,meanwhile, its objective is to liberate its lost territories, an operation that can only be mounted if the Russian offensive is blunted. The question for the Donbas campaign therefore is not where the exact frontline ends up by the end of May, but instead how this sets the conditions for
subsequent rounds of operations over the summer.

For the Ukrainians, there is the question of
reconstitution and staving off exhaustion among their combat units. For the Russians, there is
the challenge of ensuring there are sufficient units in reserve. Both countries are therefore now
preparing for a more protracted fight. In Russia, this preparation has been visible in a steady
shift in rhetoric, which has been paving the way for the continuation of the struggle.

Source


https://static.rusi.org/special-report-202204-operation-z-web.pdf


 
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