Russia/Ukraine Megathread V6

[Rational Poster]

If you have a relatively large partisan movement sure. Does such exist in Ukraine? There are no indication that it does.

There's no indication that Russia can successfully interdict thousands of miles of railway across the country by air, let alone by some imaginary partisan force.

Their best aircraft are falling out of the sky, their missile cruisers cannot get close enough to bombard the coast let alone the interior of the country.

Russia isn't holding back they just suck.

 

[KnightTemplar]

They have been using the best equipment they have available and even that was in rough shape before Ukraine started picking it apart.

I imagine their reserve equipment is in even worse shape and horribly dated. Their reserve system in general is poor. They don't maintain training like US reservists. It would just be a lot more green troops and equipped even more poorly.

Their airborne troops that were supposedly the best of the best, deployed outside Kyiv at the start of the invasion with some of them not even having rifle optics.

This. So much. Yes, Putin can, in theory declare war and mobilise hundreds of thousands of extra troops. The problem is most will be unfit, with any military skills they once possessed seriously degraded by lack of practice. And they will be going up against Ukrainians who are highly motivated and battle hardened.

Putin isn't playing 4D Chess. He's isn't trying to lull the Ukrainians and the West into a false sense of security. The Russian military really is that shit. He sent in the best troops he had, and they got mauled in the opening stages of the war. Now all he's got left are the cannon fodder.

 

[idrankyourbeer]

Just for @idrankyourbeer

 

[idrankyourbeer]

 

[KnightTemplar]

Yeah i love how these Russians beat the Nazis crew seems to forget how the Nazis outright massacred Russians in the early stages of the war and were only defeated through attrition as Russia was being supplied by the West.

Kursk is rightly regarded as a hugely important Soviet victory, and a turning point in the entire War. What is far less well remembered is just how close a fight it was. In spite of being heavily outnumbered, the Germans came close to breaking the Red Army's lines. In fact, the Red Army lost far more men and equipment than the Germans, but had much larger reserves and were being supplied trucks etc by America.

The Nazis were evil bastards, but some of them were also brave and talented soldiers.

 

[Rational Poster]

This. So much. Yes, Putin can, in theory declare war and mobilise hundreds of thousands of extra troops. The problem is most will be unfit, with any military skills they once possessed seriously degraded by lack of practice. And they will be going up against Ukrainians who are highly motivated and battle hardened.

Putin isn't playing 4D Chess. He's isn't trying to lull the Ukrainians and the West into a false sense of security. The Russian military really is that shit. He sent in the best troops he had, and they got mauled in the opening stages of the war. Now all he's got left are the cannon fodder.

Meanwhile in America, we just settled on buying 250,000 of these for ALL frontline and reserve troops for almost $3B.

 

[SandisLL]

If you have a relatively large partisan movement sure. Does such exist in Ukraine? There are no indication that it does.

I don't know about modern Ukraine.

When was Hitler, his brutality with POWs in central and eastern europe was insane, if compare with stuff he used in western europe.
If he just had let them go....damn how life for them might had changed...

In the same Belarus initially looks that partisan movement was implosive, without central organisation.
Later. It was not funny stuff for Hitler.
About Ukraine I'm not familiar to tell about this time.
Odessa had long term underground stuff vs Hitler....AFAIK....

 

[Cole train]

That's because we have a left-wing feminist government right now. But if a right-wing nationalist government is elected, I think they'll be less likely to give a crap about any such agreements.

Speak of the devil this was released today

https://www.msn.com/fi-fi/uutiset/o...pc=U531&cvid=1ac621c004224e64b34dfa93571e4897

 

[SandisLL]

Kursk is rightly regarded as a hugely important Soviet victory, and a turning point in the entire War. What is far less well remembered is just how close a fight it was. In spite of being heavily outnumbered, the Germans came close to breaking the Red Army's lines.

The Nazis were evil bastards, but some of them were also brave and talented soldiers.

Not all germans were nazis, even if in SS units.
For example Waffen SS was meat for cannons in very dangerous sectors.
Real " elite " looks that were SD and Gestapo lads....

 

[Rational Poster]

Kursk is rightly regarded as a hugely important Soviet victory, and a turning point in the entire War. What is far less well remembered is just how close a fight it was. In spite of being heavily outnumbered, the Germans came close to breaking the Red Army's lines. In fact, the Red Army lost far more men and equipment than the Germans, but had much larger reserves and were being supplied trucks etc by America.

The Nazis were evil bastards, but some of them were also brave and talented soldiers.

The Red Army was taking lopsided loses all the way to Berlin. It wasn't till they started fighting elderly, women, and children did that change.

 

[SandisLL]

The breaking point IMHO was when they lost Battle for Britain....with this stepped vs USSR seriously weakened...
Still had 3 attack directions, not 1-2.

 

[TheGreatA]

Speak of the devil this was released today

https://www.msn.com/fi-fi/uutiset/other/sisäministeriö-rajan-sulkeminen-kokonaan-tai-turvapaikkaoikeuden-rajoittaminen-ei-mahdollista-edes-poikkeusoloissa/ar-AAXbdwh?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1ac621c004224e64b34dfa93571e4897

Let's just act like it's because of COVID that we're shutting down the border, and it'll be okay.

Anyway, yeah, the time of respecting such agreements is over. Finland is now NATO's border wall, the buffer state, and we have to be the hardest SOBs in the entire alliance, the gatekeepers to Europe. NATO can't afford a situation where a weak, leaking Finland is humiliated, because it would then be an embarrassment to everyone involved.

Left-wing stuff, feminist stuff, socialist sympathies towards the East, that has to be a thing of the past. We don't have room for that now. Otherwise we will have to be occupied by NATO forces in order to save face for the entire institution. No more hiding behind "neutrality", we are a clearly partisan military force, and a hostile state against Russia. Presumed weakness on our part could cause a literal WW3 scenario to occur, causing the same sort of chains of events as the invasion of Serbia in WW1 and the invasion of Poland in WW2.

I'm okay with that as long as it's handled well, as long as we don't turn out to be a pushover that gets humiliated by Russia, forcing the U.S. and others to basically take control of our government and military in order to whip it into the kind of shape that is expected of a NATO member that's the most likely participant to see a real-world conflict being waged on its territory. We can only remain "independent" to a degree as long as we're fulfilling our duties. There's too much riding on us now to allow us to be as lax as we've been when it comes to national security.

 

[Rod1]

The Nazis were evil bastards, but some of them were also brave and talented soldiers.

Wehrmacht was a pretty professional army (nazis were not that long in power), its likely that as the German army became more and more politicized and purged it would had gone the same way as Russia.

 

[SandisLL]

There is one stuff ukrinform.net

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I love the idea that it might have SUDDENLY occurred to Russia that they could target the railroads <45>

I get the argument that they wanted to protect infrastructure (because they wanted to overthrow the government, initially), but if they COULD - they WOULD.

I think I've seen two stories of railway stations being hit by Russians.

 

[KnightTemplar]

The Red Army was taking lopsided loses all the way to Berlin. It wasn't till they started fighting elderly, women, and children did that change.

When they weren't gang raping them. While you'd struggle to find an army that didn't at some point include a few soldiers who abused civilians, the Red Army regarded it as practically a legitimate tactic of warfare. It's estimated something like 800,000 German women were raped by Russian soldiers. And they weren't particularly choosey; the ages of the victims ranged from children to grandmothers.

Eventually, even Stalin got fed up of hearing the allies complain about Red Army atrocities in occupied Germany, and ordered his officers to put a stop to it by executing a few soldiers who had been found guilty of rape.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Why would Ukraine possibly feel the need for extra security loooooool

Russia's stance on NATO is self-defeating and embarrassing.

Now they're upset about Finland and Sweden. Why would THEY possibly want the extra security of NATO, it's not like Russia just goes around invading neigh---

Oh, never mind.

They've been doing that non stop for 150 years, so yeah.

No argument from me except that Russia prefers to place pro-Russia govts instead of invading, but none of that has a thing to do with what we've done with Ukraine.

 

[Cole train]

Let's just act like it's because of COVID that we're shutting down the border, and it'll be okay.

Anyway, yeah, the time of respecting such agreements is over. Finland is now NATO's border wall, the buffer state, and we have to be the hardest SOBs in the entire alliance, the gatekeepers to Europe. NATO can't afford a situation where a weak, leaking Finland is humiliated, because it would then be an embarrassment to everyone involved.

Left-wing stuff, feminist stuff, socialist sympathies towards the East, that has to be a thing of the past. We don't have room for that now. Otherwise we will have to be occupied by NATO forces in order to save face for the entire institution. No more hiding behind "neutrality", we are a clearly partisan military force, and a hostile state against Russia. Presumed weakness on our part could cause a literal WW3 scenario to occur, causing the same sort of chains of events as the invasion of Serbia in WW1 and the invasion of Poland in WW2.

I'm okay with that as long as it's handled well, as long as we don't turn out to be a pushover that gets humiliated by Russia, forcing the U.S. and others to basically take control of our government and military in order to whip it into the kind of shape that is expected of a NATO member that's the most likely participant to see a real-world conflict being waged on its territory. We can only remain "independent" to a degree as long as we're fulfilling our duties. There's too much riding on us now to allow us to be as lax as we've been when it comes to national security.

To be honest i find the idea of ww3 starting due to finland hilarious,the country where nothing happens and no one cares about.

Would be laughing while burning in nuclear fire

 

[SandisLL]

Let's just act like it's because of COVID that we're shutting down the border, and it'll be okay.

Anyway, yeah, the time of respecting such agreements is over. Finland is now NATO's border wall, the buffer state, and we have to be the hardest SOBs in the entire alliance, the gatekeepers to Europe. NATO can't afford a situation where a weak, leaking Finland is humiliated, because it would then be an embarrassment to everyone involved.

Left-wing stuff, feminist stuff, socialist sympathies towards the East, that has to be a thing of the past. We don't have room for that now. Otherwise we will have to be occupied by NATO forces in order to save face for the entire institution. No more hiding behind "neutrality", we are a clearly partisan military force, and a hostile state against Russia. Presumed weakness on our part could cause a literal WW3 scenario to occur, causing the same sort of chains of events as the invasion of Serbia in WW1 and the invasion of Poland in WW2.

I'm okay with that as long as it's handled well, as long as we don't turn out to be a pushover that gets humiliated by Russia, forcing the U.S. and others to basically take control of our government and military in order to whip it into the kind of shape that is expected of a NATO member that's the most likely participant to see a real-world conflict being waged on its territory. We can only remain "independent" to a degree as long as we're fulfilling our duties. There's too much riding on us now to allow us to be as lax as we've been when it comes to national security.

Do you think that your life under Mother Russia and their oligarchs will be better?
Please relocate to Russia ASAP.
You even don't know how large minimum salary Mother Russia will offer to you as warranted beauty....
13890 russian roubles per 160 hours ....
Get this...

 

[TheGreatA]

Wehrmacht was a pretty professional army (nazis were not that long in power), its likely that as the German army became more and more politicized and purged it would had gone the same way as Russia.

It was already going that way by the end, with Hitler purging the likes of Rommel and replacing them with his own goons, such as when he actually gave Himmler command for a while (which turned out to be a disaster). Göring, while a great flying ace in WW1, was also a terrible commander, responsible for many of Luftwaffe's worst losses.

The actual card-carrying Nazis kind of sucked ass at waging war. They were mostly good for massacring and torturing civilians. Hitler ironically probably had the most success of making decisions out of the Nazi lot.

Paranoid, loony dictators tend to go with the people they believe to be loyal. That's why Stalin had horselord Budyonny in charge of the defense of the USSR instead of Tuchachevsky whom he purged. Budyonny, as one would expect of a man that believed horses to be superior to tanks, turned out to be a terrible leader in the WW2 environment, although not quite as terrible as Stalin himself who caused enormous casualties on the part of Soviet troops by pushing for pointless, reckless counter-offensives that led to encirclements and annihilation.

There's an account by Khruschev of him and Budyonny crying their eyes out when Stalin gave an order for a "counter-offensive" which they knew to be utterly doomed and hopeless for the men involved. Yet to save their own lives, they gave that order to the men, and as a result, hundreds of thousands of men were butchered. Men that could've easily held off the Nazi assault for quite some time, in a defensive position.