Russia/Ukraine Megathread V6

[Cole train]

Why are people typing in russian when no one is russian

 

[shinkyoku]

T90M destroyed by a swedish carl gustaf grenade launcher (I assume the M3 version from 1986, not the heavy a** older M2 from 48 -although the only real difference is the suffering of the poor sod who has to haul the heavy thing around)

Nice to see that even simpler & older weapon systems can be put to good use.

 

[The Diplomat]

The point is that Azov was formed as a neonazi paramilitary organisation, and despite becoming useful to the Ukraine and their efforts to play down that aspect, they were still getting international Neonazis joining even recently. Their reputation and recruitment was well established by that point.
Now of course there's more pressing need of militias since the invasion, so they are hardly going to disband established ones.
Biletsky's resignation and publicly disavowing National Socialism was just the bare minimum of reform needed for appearances.
Biletsky was involved well after resigning as commander.
I don't for a second believe Azov were purged of neonazism.
I'm not for moment going to lionise Azov, even if I think their disgusting origin and ideology are largely irrelevant when it comes to fighting against an invasion aimed at destroying their nation and it's right to self-determination.

Aye. They were useful in Donbas, they did very well. So keeping them around was probably seen as the lesser of two evils, in case of a full Russian invasion.

 

[MIKOM]

Why are people typing in russian when no one is russian

Oh sweet summer child...

 

[AWilder]

Did you know that a tu quoque and all it's variants are informal fallacies and therefore not always invalid forms of argument? You can make a valid argument with the structure of an informal fallacy.

You can also not be a dumbass putin shill. you do you.

 

[Yotsuya]

I'm not for moment going to lionise Azov, even if I think their disgusting origin and ideology are largely irrelevant when it comes to fighting against an invasion aimed at destroying their nation and it's right to self-determination.

If you are aware of the marginality of the neo-nazi situation and not trying to lionise Azov, then you should not have posted a negligible anecdote that plays into the denazification propaganda.

 

[AWilder]

Oh sweet summer child...

 

[Ruprecht]

If you are aware of the marginality of the neo-nazi situation and not trying to lionise Azov, then you should not have posted a negligible anecdote that plays into the denazification propaganda.

It's a simple fact that Azov are a neonazi paramilitary organisation. The threat their organisation poses doesn't disappear just because they are fighting for a justified cause which has given them some legitimacy.
You'd think people would realise that after the long history of arming and training Islamist militants.
Azov and it's formation is hardly representative of the Ukraine though, or it's right to self-determination. I fully support the Ukrainian fight to remain independent from Russia's post-colonial revanchism, but I'm also not about to ignore the facts just because a warped version of them features in Russia's ludicrous propaganda.

 

[Videer]

T90M destroyed by a swedish carl gustaf grenade launcher (I assume the M3 version from 1986, not the heavy a** older M2 from 48 -although the only real difference is the suffering of the poor sod who has to haul the heavy thing around)

Nice to see that even simpler & older weapon systems can be put to good use.

It is a very good design, cost is low compared to single use alternatives and with modern material design probably pretty light too, though dont know how much the newest version is.
But most importantly they have not stopped developing new ammunition for it. Sure it probably wont penetrate any modern tank from front like a TOW but at same weight you get a whole lot more shots.

Russian RPG gunner is taken out by a hobby drone seconds after he fires.

 

[SandisLL]

The efforts to disassociate Azov from Biletsky are paper thin in my opinion.
I mean Biletsky resigned as commander in 2015/2016 I believe, but my own country was taking the passports off ex-military neonazis in 2020 because of their plans to join Azov, and the terrorist risk that posed in the wake of the 2019 Christchurch massacre.

Who cares about immigration to Australia?
If someone isn't with references + experience in field in high demand + doesn't have really enough min money for start.
Not so worth country to immigrate.

Ukraine? Salaries level alone is big question.
Only if someone had worked for western clients ( fe IT) and used tax optimisation variants ( btw legal, fe for IT to form employees as self employed contractors etc alike ).

 

[Rod1]

Cuba could've given the same response back in the 60s. If the US could station many nuclear weapons in NATO Europe right next door to the USSR, why can't the USSR put just a few nukes in Cuba. There was a understanding that NATO not expand beyond the 1990 borders but the US broke the pact and supported a series of regime change/flower revolutions in former USSR countries while expanding NATO and forced Russia to spend more on defending its borders. You'd think that it would make sense for NATO to stay out of Ukraine which shares a long border with Russia and also has former USSR heavy industries important to Russia.

No, there was no understanding, Gorbachev himself said so.

s. You'd think that it would make sense for NATO to stay out of Ukraine which shares a long border with Russia and also has former USSR heavy industries important to Russia.

NATO did stayed outside of Ukraine, ergo the invaison.

In the past right wingers were happy to expand NATO as if the cold war was still going on since it would keep pumping up the armaments industry. Now it seems they have their wish with Finland and Sweden probably going to join NATO.

NATO countries invaded by Russia in the last 30 years = zero.

non-NATO countries invaded by Russia in the last 30 years = Moldova, Ukraine, Georgia.

I wonder why countries wish to join NATO.

 

[Yotsuya]

It's a simple fact that Azov are a neonazi paramilitary organisation. The threat their organisation poses doesn't disappear just because they are fighting for a justified cause which has given them some legitimacy.
You'd think people would realise that after the long history of arming and training Islamist militants.
Azov and it's formation is hardly representative of the Ukraine though, or it's right to self-determination. I fully support the Ukrainian fight to remain independent from Russia's post-colonial revanchism, but I'm also not about to ignore the facts just because a warped version of them features in Russia's ludicrous propaganda.

As I said in my first reply, there's factually nothing new in what you are saying even though you failed to put any of in scale. Your only addition was anecdotally connecting Azov with your local massacre. I'm pointing out that your vague innuendo plays into denazification propaganda.

 

[Rod1]

Thank you.
Unfortunately you are not going to find much support in this thread for this reasoning.
New York Times columnist warns America may be inadvertently dragged into direct war with Russia (msn.com)
"Friedman also warned that while he admires what he views as Zelensky’s 'heroism and leadership,' the Ukrainian president has a vested interest in increasing American involvement in the conflict even if it is not in the United States’ best interest. -- Friedman concluded by cautioning that America is 'dealing with some incredibly unstable elements' including a 'politically wounded Putin."

Not facing Putin now is just kicking the can down the road, if Ukraine had failed Russia would be at this point invading Moldova, then China would be wondering if its a good idea to invade Taiwan and who knows how many people would be emboldened to take military action as a solution to domestic issues.

 

[Ruprecht]

Who cares about immigration to Australia?
If someone isn't with references + experience if field in high demand + doesn't have really enough money?
Not so worth country to immigrate.

Ukraine? Salaries level alone is big question.
Only if someone had worked for western clients ( fe IT) and used tax optimisation variants ( btw legal, fe for IT to form employees as self employed contractors etc alike ).

Eh? That's not about migration to Australia. It's about neonazi Australians going to the Ukraine to join Azov, "for the cause" and for the combat experience.
The problem is not them going to fight Russia, it's what they'll do with their combat experience and ideology when they return to Australia.
It's not a new phenomenon or limited to Australia either. I wonder what Finland thinks of returning citizens like Carolus Löfroos?

 

[Cole train]

Eh? That's not about migration to Australia. It's about neonazi Australians going to the Ukraine to join Azov, "for the cause" and for the combat experience.
The problem is not them going to fight Russia, it's what they'll do with their combat experience and ideology when they return to Australia.
It's not a new phenomenon or limited to Australia either. I wonder what Finland thinks of returning citizens like Carolus Löfroos?

Finland actually has no problems with volunteers ,its even kinda encouraged if going by internet even if goal was political

 

[shinkyoku]

It is a very good design, cost is low compared to single use alternatives and with modern material design probably pretty light too, though dont know how much the newest version is.

M2 14kg, M3 10kg new M4 7kg (but I dont think the M4 is in service anywere yet). As one who have lugged the d*mn M2 around (if only temporary. it was not my main function), I applaud every effort to make it lighter.

 

[Ruprecht]

Finland actually has no problems with volunteers ,its even kinda encouraged if going by internet

I'd be amazed if they had no problems with the likes of Carolus Löfroos, although is he still in Sweden?

 

[Rod1]

This 100%

Both sides are fucked up, Russia invaded, America/NATO is pushing Russia into a corner, all of these don't really care about human lives and are guilty of murdering and raping.

Yes, both sides are fucked up, yet one side unilaterally invaded a democratic country because it decided it didn't want to be a Satrapy of the Russian Empire.

And people are pissed that Ukraine is being given a chance to defend themselves.

This is like throwing a christian to the lions and then complaining that someone in the audience threw a sword inside the ring because it puts the life of the lion at risk.

 

[syct23]

Nice to see that even simpler & older weapon systems can be put to good use.

Interesting how Russia hasn't figured that out, since they are playing with simple & older weapons...

 

[Rod1]

Then saving all the moral outrage in the west by letting all the Ukrainians get killed because, even though they are dying a lot, it’s still half a world away and they use a Cyrillic alphabet. The west is blatantly fighting a proxy war with Russia over this issue and by giving in to them with all these loans and weapons deliveries, we will own Ukraine and ukraines natural resources, instead of Russia. What do all wars eventually boil down to? That’s right boys and girls, the almighty $. If Russia controls then they control gas reserves, if western puppet zelensky controls, then the west will own, now that he owes his country to the west.

NATO isn't fighting a war, Ukrainians can give up anytime they want, NATO can't change that.

Just like the Afghan army with their tanks, jets, humvees, artillery decided to surrender to the Taliban riding technicals so can Ukrainian army surrender to Russia if they want.

People talk as if NATO has boots on the ground when its just giving Ukrainians weapons.