Russia/Ukraine Megathread V6

[Anewt]

That must be why Americans supported the war in Iraq. Oh wait, they didnt.

..... what's that got to with it? So war crimes on pows are OK if the public supports war?

Not only that.... according to your polls ... yas did...

Days before the March 20 invasion, a USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll found support for the war was related to UN approval. Nearly six in 10 said they were ready for such an invasion "in the next week or two." But that support dropped off if the U.N. backing was not first obtained. If the United Nations Security Council were to reject a resolution paving the way for military action, 54% of Americans favored a U.S. invasion. And if the Bush administration did not seek a final Security Council vote, support for a war dropped to 47%.[1]


An ABC News/Washington Post poll taken after the beginning of the war showed a 62% support for the war, lower than the 79% in favor at the beginning of the Persian Gulf War.[2]


However, when the US invaded Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom, public support for the conflict rose once again. According to a Gallup poll, support for the war was up to 72 percent on March 22–23. Out of those 72 percent, 59 percent reported supporting the war strongly; and although allied commanders said they had not yet found evidence of weapons of mass destruction days after the initial invasion, 9 out of 10 Americans believed it was "at least somewhat likely" that the United States would find evidence of these weapons.[11]


President George W. Bush's approval rating also jumped at the beginning of the war, going up 13 percentage points at the start of this conflict (Smith and Lindsay).[10]


May 2003Edit

A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war.[12]


August 2004Edit

An August 2004 poll showed that two-thirds (67%) of the American public believe the U.S. went to war based on incorrect assumptions.[13] The morale of the US troops has been subject to variations. Issues include the vulnerability of the Humvee vehicles, and the great number of wounded and maimed soldiers [14][15]


September 2004Edit

A CBS poll showed that 54% of Americans believed the Iraq invasion was the right thing to do, up from 45% in July in the same poll.[16

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq#:~:text=According to a Gallup poll,35 percent and 43 percent.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Add him to the list of utter media douchebags along with Cucker Tarlson.

Ah still bitter about Tucker i wonder why is that? because he is anti war and speaks the Truth that you dont want to hear?
I mean you still your MSNBC, and CNN for that matter.

 

[Captain Herb]

From the twitter tweets i had seen it appears the US officials are the ones who keep giving Zelensky unrealistic diplomatic demands like on the issue of " Crimea"

The only say that US/NATO could possibly have in the negotiations is on the issue of sanctions. I think we would be willing to ease some of them on a withdrawal of troops, and the rest on the removal of Putin.

 

[curryjunkie]

Not excusing anything, and since WW2 has nothing to do with it - no need to compare supporting Serbs to supporting Hitler.

dont make mass graves then dickwad, and you wont get compared...

 

[GoldenWolf87]

The only say that US/NATO could possibly have in the negotiations is on the issue of sanctions. I think we would be willing to ease some of them on a withdrawal of troops, and the rest on the removal of Putin.

and the rest on the removal of Putin

Those Boris Yeltsin days are long gone.
That is a wishful demand.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

dont make mass graves then dickwad, and you wont get compared...

Your side had send Jihadists and send thousands of Jihadist fighters to Bosnia during the conflict.

Even Hezbollah Fighters were in Bosnia.

 

[Captain Herb]

China isn't dumb country. They know math.
From trade with just South Korea alone they are earning more than with import/ export with Russia.
Not alone if we will start to talk about trade with Japan.
Or if we take here Australia, NZ and Canada too.
The same with U.K.
Only after this we might start to talk about US or trade with EU/EEZ.

Pro Russia oriented posters might till end of their life post: life in world is not possible without Russia.
It is possible and Russia might go to Parasha. Ate oil and breath their natural gas.

The world can easily live without Russia, with a few adjustments, and if Putin remains in power, that's exactly what's going to happen.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

The world can easily live without Russia, with a few adjustments, and if Putin remains in power, that's exactly what's going to happen.

The world can easily live without Russia, with a few adjustments

Like pushing puppets that you can control right? like the last time?

 

[Captain Herb]

Those Boris Yeltsin days are long gone.
That is a wishful demand.

It's not a demand, it's a condition. We don't need them, they need us. If that's the way they want it, let Putin and Jong Il dine together at the ends of a 45' table.

 

[b34stmode]

It's not about what I want to believe mate. It's about trying to discern the truth for me.



Yes they could. And it's fucked up and they're government is to blame for the invasion.

From the sounds of it that poor girl died from dehydration because her mother had passed because of shelling . That's a bit different to purposefully starving children no?

( only could read the headers as I've reached my Reuters article limit , I'll check it out when I can )

I'm sorry a lot of sources that come from Ukrainian intelligence I'm highly dubious about. The government and intelligence has been prooven to lie. So I'm not going to take their word on things at face value.. just like I wouldn't Russian.. or American or UK.

From what I recall you have every reason to be emotionally invested and support Ukraine 100%. Absolutely nothing wrong with your stance.

I'll have a hunt for your source on the paratroopers. Cheers

I was told by mother in law that kids/civilians are begging for water and food in Mauripol and are being denied.

Russian soldiers drop from sky at edge of Kyiv (france24.com)

The paratroopers tried to take the Hostomel airport within the first 8 hours of the war. They ended up trying multiple times to take it, and never secured it.

Russian paratroopers' doomed raid to take airport: Video shows elite troops at Hostomel | Daily Mail Online

They were also dropped outside of Kharkiv. They never secured it. Paratroopers were utilized to be dropped behind enemy lines and to control a site until ground troops can back them up.



Two II76 were shot down, they hold up to 250 paratroopers.

US officials say 2 Russian transport planes shot down over Ukraine | The Times of Israel

They were also utilized in Mauripol

Key port of Mariupol under siege as IMF and World Bank pledge $3bn for Ukraine – as it happened | World news | The Guardian

Now the death toll I randomly made up, but you take the fact they were dropped in Hostomel multiple times and never secured it, and had zero ground troops backing them up, would lead you to believe they were wiped out completely. Add the ones that were shot out of the sky, and the ones used in Kharkiv, and 1000 death toll isn't out of the realm of possibility.

I truly think Pootin thought he could drop these elite soldiers outside of Kiev, control the Hostomel airport, and transfer thousands of troops into the airport to take Kiev. He thought they would mostly be welcomed and Zelensky was going to surrender or be killed by an inside job in Kiev. He literally sent these paratroopers directly to their death knowing they would not have ground support.

 

[Captain Herb]

Like pushing puppets that you can control right? like the last time?

I said the world can live without Russia. Period.

 

[bad mojo]

dont make mass graves then dickwad, and you wont get compared...

Learn some history before forming an opinion, whether it's Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs or whoever. Mass graves are ok, depending on who's buried in them, from what I read here.

 

[Badr Hari]

Your side had send Jihadists and send thousands of Jihadist fighters to Bosnia during the conflict.

Even Hezbollah Fighters were in Bosnia.

Fuck that and fuck them. Doesn't mean you didn't carry on with your genocidal project. There has been an orchestrated attempt by the Serbian foreign policy for 30 years to link any Muslim population from Europe with radical Islamists. Good thing is they have failed massively. Because there isn't such a connection. There is radical Islam in Bosnia just as much as there is in Serbia or any other country of Europe. Bosnia will fight extremisms on its own and with the help of the western allies. Just like they fought your fascist war lords in the 90s.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Fuck that and fuck them. Doesn't mean you didn't carry on with your genocidal project. There has been an orchestrated attempt by the Serbian foreign policy for 30 years to link any Muslim population from Europe with radical Islamists. Good thing is they have failed massively. Because there isn't such a connection. There is radical Islam in Bosnia just as much as there is Serbia or any other country of Europe. Bosnia will fight extremisms on its own and with the help of the western allies. Just like they fought your fascist war lords in the 90s.

Why was it ok for Western countries to bring up radicals to fight for them?

Bosnia will fight extremisms on its own and with the help of the western allies

Really? is that why than Bosnia had rewarded those fighters as heroes?

 

[Siver!]

Ah still bitter about Tucker i wonder why is that? because he is anti war and speaks the Truth that you dont want to hear?
I mean you still your MSNBC, and CNN for that matter.

I don't watch any American news channels as I'm not in the US.

But that guy is a disgrace, and talks shit that seeps out onto the internet all the time.

As for being anti-war, aren't we all? I mean, he's a person still. Nobody is enjoying seeing what's happening.

 

[MTT]

I suppose those Civilians In Eastern Ukraine which had been shelled, attacked by Ukrainian forces and their homes been lost do they count as well?

How could a group of people and their reactions to brutality not count? The overarching theme is Russia enabling extreme instability on its border. The little green men. Russia's hand in the creation of a separatist movement warring against their own government. To them, all justified but arguably wrong assessments. I think Russia is an agent of chaos to its own detriment. It's likely the NATO boogeyman directly on the Russian border would be the best thing for Russian peace. That is funny.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

Fuck that and fuck them. Doesn't mean you didn't carry on with your genocidal project. There has been an orchestrated attempt by the Serbian foreign policy for 30 years to link any Muslim population from Europe with radical Islamists. Good thing is they have failed massively. Because there isn't such a connection. There is radical Islam in Bosnia just as much as there is in Serbia or any other country of Europe. Bosnia will fight extremisms on its own and with the help of the western allies. Just like they fought your fascist war lords in the 90s.

Good thing is they have failed massively

What happened in Bosnia and Balkans it exposed the Western hypocrisy of their so called support for certain alliances.

Just like in Syria officials had pushed for arms to support so called rebel groups which in reality were Jihadist fighters.

 

[Badr Hari]

Why was it ok for Western countries to bring up radicals to fight for them?

Nobody from the west brought them. There was a group that came as volunteers and it's what actually paused the western intervention for some time. Bosnians basically had to tell them to fuck off, because they wanted aid from the West and not from those kind of people to fight the serbian military machinery who was outnumbering and outpowering them a gazillion times.

 

[GoldenWolf87]

How could a group of people and their reactions to brutality not count? The overarching theme is Russia enabling extreme instability on its border. The little green men. Russia's hand in the creation of a separatist movement warring against their own government. To them, all justified but arguably wrong assessments. I think Russia is an agent of chaos to its own detriment. It's likely the NATO boogeyman directly on the Russian border would be the best thing for Russian peace. That is funny.

I think Russia is an agent of chaos to its own detriment

Is that so, i suppose what the US govt did in Libya doesn't tell that US is a agent of Chaos in the region or letting chaos go repent. Its always the evil Russian/Russia boogeyman.

Russia's hand in the creation of a separatist movement

Just like the US had in the creation of and push for Kosovo independence and to build their base camp bond steel to make sure to they keep on eye of the resources in the region and control of it.

 

[Denter]

The world can easily live without Russia, with a few adjustments, and if Putin remains in power, that's exactly what's going to happen.

The issue IMO isn't what will happen in the West (besides higher prices we will be fine) but the real concern about what the fertilizer, gasoline and grain shock will do to third world countries that have to import food. Egypt for example can't even afford the bread subsidy they currently pay, all sorts of bad possibilities in sub saharan Africa as well.