Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Source]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...e-the-main-issues-in-the-russia-ukraine-talks

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...-declaring-war-on-ukraine-translated-excerpts

 

[IDGETKTFO]

or direct confrontation between Russia and NATO which means everyone will lose

Negative. NATO countries will suffer, but Russia will lose.

 

[Badr Hari]

For what its worth, no nations elites give a fuck about human life. They never have and never will. It doesn't excuse Russia, but it is commonplace amongst governments and the very wealthy. Wars are fought for money, territory, and resources. Governments commit mass murder of their own people and other nations people in the name of things not pertaining to self defense. They're all murderers. The world is literally run by murderers. You kill one person, you get life. They kill millions, and they make billions off of it.

People need to wake the fuck up, the human race has been subjugated, stolen from, and slaughtered by these psychopaths since the beginning of human civilization. It makes absolutely no sense why we continue to allow it to happen.

Tbh what you're saying here is a deep philosophical debate that isn't going to be resolved no matter what happens during and after this war. And both of your ideas are somewhat controversial and improbable to be put in action. Overthrowing all world governments at the same time is a surreal improbable scenario. And a society without a government isn't going to be heaven. A western style democratically elected government and a free country is the best model we have so far, of course far from perfect, but much better than the archaic dictatorial systems and monarchies. It is worth the try for us at this point. And it looks like it is worth the war and suffer for the ukrainians who don't want subjugation for a few more generations.

 

[mkess101]

There’s no deal to save face now. The only way Putin comes out of this with positive outlook is the full Russian victory.

Make no mistake, the absolutely insane western sanctions leave any diplomatic solution at this point of the conflict impossible. If Russia pulls out of Ukraine now, the West will not lift the sanctions and will just finish off Russia as a loser and there’s nothing preventing Ukraine to back out from whatever they sign now.

There’s only two ways this will end and it’s scary - full capitulation of Ukraine or direct confrontation between Russia and NATO which means everyone will lose

In your opinion if there was actually direct military conflict between NATO/Russia...would Putin actually launch a tactical nuke? He can't win a conventional war, he can't even compete. And God willing we won't have to find any of this out. But if we did...do you think he'd do it out of desperation?

 

[AB234]

I call BS provide a independent link.

No they don't want to go to Russia territory and then be shipped to concentration camps.

"The civilians were allegedly taken to “filtration” camps that the city’s mayor likened to World War II-era concentration camps, where Russian forces allegedly seized their phones and documents before transporting them to other “remote cities in Russia, according to reports Saturday in the Kyiv Independent newspaper and the news site Ukrinform"

https://nypost.com/2022/03/19/thousands-of-ukrainians-forcibly-taken-to-russian-camps-reports/amp/

The story he claims has been coming out of Open Source Intelligence for a week.

The first I saw of it was a couple who were trying to leave and saw a bunch of cars shot up on the road. People were still in them. They stopped to help, from the looks of it. The man was recording it. As he got close, you could see the people in the cars were all bloody and dead. Then shots were being fired at him and he hit the ground, while hearing his wife screaming in the background. The video said he took a bullet but they both got away through the forest. They claimed it was Azov who was killing the citizens who tried to get away. This was allegedly filmed at the time of the very first Humanitarian Corridor in Mariupol, which Azov forbade the people to leave. Both sides claimed the other broke the ceasefire.

The shit looked like it was straight out of a cheap horror film so I didn't exactly believe it. However, I believe it now because there have been a lot of stories coming out of the same material, as well as Ukrainians who successfully escaped and told their stories after arriving at other cities.

There's a video of Azov providing food and water to civilians after the second Ceasefire/Humanitarian Corridor failed. A civilian was complaining to a soldier about not being allowed to leave Mariupol and the Azov guy told her to her face that she's lucky he doesn't shoot her as he gave her water.

 

[Anewt]

Is taking a position in a civilian building to defend your country worse than invading that country in the first place? I have a strong suspicion that the civilians doing the complaining were probably pro-Russia. Otherwise, they would be helping out.

Honestly it would depend to me.. if you're relying on the fact it's a civilian safe zone ( church hospital etc ) " shield " that's fucked up to me.

Are those attacking it more to blame.. Sure 100%

Is it more justified because you're being invaded? Sure... but that doesn't change the fact it's still fucked up.

There's a reason it's considered a war crime. Because by virtue of doing that your risking those who you're supposedly fighting for. The cowards who used mosques as a safe haven were committing war crimes to me. Despite whatever justification they gave for it. My standards haven’t changed.

 

[ViD]

In your opinion if there was actually direct military conflict between NATO/Russia...would Putin actually launch a tactical nuke? He can't win a conventional war, he can't even compete. And God willing we won't have to find any of this out. But if we did...do you think he'd do it out of desperation?

Well, if NATO decides to intervene, and starts shooting down Russian planes and hitting targets on Russian territory, unless there’s some party in Russian government that will take Putin down and start negotiating process, of course he will go for the nuclear weapons

 

[Anewt]

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...-declaring-war-on-ukraine-translated-excerpts

Yup his original speech which claims the donbas and Crimea are the goals. Not any other Ukrainian territories

 

[Source]

Yup his original speech which claims the donbas and Crimea are the goals. Not any other Ukrainian territories

And demilitarization

 

[mkess101]

Well, if NATO decides to intervene, and starts shooting down Russian planes and hitting targets on Russian territory, unless there’s some party in Russian government that will take Putin down and start negotiating process, of course he will go for the nuclear weapons

Well...fuck. Let's all hope it doesn't come to any of that.

 

[Captain Herb]

Honestly it would depend to me.. if you're relying on the fact it's a civilian safe zone ( church hospital etc ) " shield " that's fucked up to me.

Are those attacking it more to blame.. Sure 100%

Is it more justified because you're being invaded? Sure... but that doesn't change the fact it's still fucked up.

There's a reason it's considered a war crime. Because by virtue of doing that your risking those who you're supposedly fighting for. The cowards who used mosques as a safe haven were committing war crimes to me. Despite whatever justification they gave for it. My standards haven’t changed.

It's not ideal--if it's happening

 

[ViD]

Negative. NATO countries will suffer, but Russia will lose.

How exactly is that possible when Russia has 2000 nuclear warheads? If it comes to a nuclear war, the entire world will end. Politicians need to think of it and hopefully cooler heads will prevail instead of war hawks trying to score political points

 

[Badr Hari]

Well, if NATO decides to intervene, and starts shooting down Russian planes and hitting targets on Russian territory, unless there’s some party in Russian government that will take Putin down and start negotiating process, of course he will go for the nuclear weapons

He won't do shit. Even if he is suicidal, there are russians who aren't. They should shoot down his planes and he won't do jack shit.

 

[Captain Herb]

Well, if NATO decides to intervene, and starts shooting down Russian planes and hitting targets on Russian territory, unless there’s some party in Russian government that will take Putin down and start negotiating process, of course he will go for the nuclear weapons

See, doesn't that worry you that one person would nuke the world just because he lost a couple airplanes in a foreign country? Does he think Russia wouldn't be part of those smoldering ruins?

 

[ViD]

Some of the sanctions will be lifted with a Russian withdrawal. I'm sure of that. The rest when Putin is gone maybe.

I seriously doubt that. Why lift sanctions of an enemy that basically retreated when you can hurt them much harder to ensure they don’t come back again soon ?

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Well, if NATO decides to intervene, and starts shooting down Russian planes and hitting targets on Russian territory, unless there’s some party in Russian government that will take Putin down and start negotiating process, of course he will go for the nuclear weapons

Almost 50% of America alone is already accepting nuclear war if it comes down to it. Not saying i agree, and i doubt these 50% even understand what this means, but none the less, it will happen if Russia keeps making threats.

 

[ViD]

He won't do shit. Even if he is suicidal, there are russians who aren't. They should shoot down his planes and he won't do jack shit.

You’re an idiot if you think that.

 

[Anewt]

And demilitarization

I'm confused.. what are we arguing about? Lol
Yes demilitarisation is also a stated goal

It's not ideal--if it's happening

Well the shopping centre that got blown up at night has quite a lot of evidence that military forces were using it to base out off.

It also to me shows they still were trying to minimise civilian casualties by doing it at a time when there'd be less civilians around..

But . Like I said that's just my viewpoint and I can be as duped as anyone.. but ill gladly hold my hand up and admit it if proven wrong.

 

[ViD]

Almost 50% of America alone is already accepting nuclear war if it comes down to it. Not saying i agree, and i doubt these 50% even understand what this means, but none the less, it will happen if Russia keeps making threats.

Well, fuck, there’s no need to start nuclear war over Ukraine. It’s not like Putin is attacking European Union or the US.
The sanctions and military aid should be the maximum the West should do here.

 

[2fast2see]

Don't just SUCK IT!

CHOKE ON THE TRUTH!

© Getty
As the Trump administration mulls sending weapons to Ukraine, the question of far-right forces employed by the Kiev government has returned to the forefront. Some Western observers claim that there are no neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine, chalking the assertion up to propaganda from Moscow. Unfortunately, they are sadly mistaken.

There are indeed neo-Nazi formations in Ukraine. This has been overwhelmingly confirmed by nearly every major Western outlet. The fact that analysts are able to dismiss it as propaganda disseminated by Moscow is profoundly disturbing. It is especially disturbing given the current surge of neo-Nazis and white supremacists across the globe.

The most infamous neo-Nazi group in Ukraine is the 3,000-strong Azov Battalion, founded in 2014. Prior to creating Azov, its commander, Andriy Biletsky, headed the neo-Nazi group Patriot of Ukraine, members of which went on to form the core of Azov. Biletsky had stated that the mission of Ukraine is to “lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival … against the Semite-led Untermenschen.”


https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda