Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

[Octavian]

So, here’s a little story about what’s going on in Mariupol right now.

The city is held by the Ukrainian nazi battalions, namely Azov, Aidar etc.

These city defenders are using schools, hospitals as their strongholds, they’re keeping civilians as hostages essentially using Syrian tactics.

Russia offered to create humanitarian exits into Russian territory which was rejected by Ukraine who only wants people to exit into Ukrainian controlled territory (there’s no such territory around Mariupol).

Those civilians who were lucky enough to escape the city telling stories about Azov shooting at civilian targets when retreating.

I obviously understand you will think it’s Russian propaganda and it’s okay, but there’s a lot of videos where they talk about it.

Another important thing to understand is that Mariupol is located right at the border with Russia and there a lot of ethnic Russians. The nazi battalions consist of hardcore Ukrainian nationalists who obviously have no remorse towards Russians.

Oh yea... Ukrainians can safely exit Mariupol as long as they exit into Russia. Right - because Ukranians living there REALLY want to go to Russia. Do you realize how outrageous that is?... Ukranians, who don't want to be a part of Russia, being told by an invading force they can flee to the invading country. I mean... holy smokes man.

It's absurd that anyone is complaining about Ukrainian tactics here... it's as if Ukraine invaded Russia - in fact, that's actually in a way exactly how Putin sees it. So I guess I should expect this type of repulsive view.

 

[Anewt]

Donbas and Crimea were basically already a part of Russia.. He didn't need to wage a full scale war to accomplish either of those. Just a few weeks ago, there was speculation that's ALL he wanted to do but it became clear in a 24 hour window, it was a full scale invasion on all possible sides.

Bollocks. You still have plenty of people in this very thread saying they won't achieve donbas.....

If he moved troops into donbas it would still be considered a invasion and that region would be still being shelled. Russia shelling Ukraine would still be considered a war crime.

 

[Octavian]

Did you know that at the time of the French Revolution historians estimate that only about 50% of the population in France could speak French? Unfortunately, that is how modern national states were built: through cultural assimilation policies, which usually involved coercing people to adopt a given chosen language. That happened all over Europe. There's even that famous quote of a politician after Italy unified as a state: "We have made Italy, now we have to make Italians." Obviously Ukrainians have the right to self-determination and to the territorial integrity of their state, but I don't think bringing up stuff that happened in the 18th century is a particularly good propaganda point.

Fair point about history but none of that makes this okay or should help us to really rationalize a maternity ward being bombed or a Holocaust suvivor being shot to death just so Putin can subjugate a sovereign nation that has rejected Russian rule numerous times.

 

[mkess101]

But just like the past 8 years Ukrainian shelling of donbas would be ignored... what do you think would have happened if Russia entered the donbas and shelled Ukraine soil?

Instead of fighting on Ukrainian soil they'd be fighting in the Donbas....

They wouldn't be fighting for long. Like I said, if they rolled their mobile long range weapons into Eastern Ukraine and formed a line, they could pretty much lay waste to the Ukrainian mobile artillery units in fairly short order.

The issue of the separatists and what's taken place after Russian went in and took Crimea by force...I really don't know how much that factors in from a tactical standpoint for Putin here. I'm not saying it doesn't matter to him in general in big picture sense, but I don't think it's affecting his tactical military decisions. That's just my opinion of course.

 

[Captain Herb]

A is nearly impossible as it would mean the end of Putin

Yes, she left out C. Russia becomes North Korea

 

[Octavian]

Bollocks. You still have plenty of people in this very thread saying they won't achieve donbas.....

If he moved troops into donbas it would still be considered a invasion and that region would be still being shelled. Russia shelling Ukraine would still be considered a war crime.

Another way of putting it... he could have just taken Donbas over time and not had to wage full scale war. Part of the reason he's doing this is to actually STAY in power - I believe. There's a kabal of wretched fascist lunatics, deemed academics and social pinacles, behind him.

 

[deadon]

I'm guessing the country will become rubble. If I were putin I'd pull back for now and keep dropping bombs.

 

[ViD]

Oh yea... Ukrainians can safely exit Mariupol as long as they exit into Russia. Right - because Ukranians living there REALLY want to go to Russia. Do you realize how outrageous that is?... Ukranians, who don't want to be a part of Russia, being told by an invading force they can flee to the invading country. I mean... holy smokes man.

It's absurd that anyone is complaining about Ukrainian tactics here... it's as if Ukraine invaded Russia - in fact, that's actually in a way exactly how Putin sees it. So I guess I should expect this type of repulsive view.

Look, there’s a bloodbath in Mariupol. Evacuating into Russia is the only option. There’s no corridor to Ukrainian controlled territory.

Besides, Russians treat refugees very well - they’re provided with food and shelter. At the end of the day, as I said, they are mostly ethnically Russian and yea, fleeing to Russia is a much better option that sitting in a bomb shelter without food or water

 

[USA!USA!]

Look, there’s a bloodbath in Mariupol. Evacuating into Russia is the only option. There’s no corridor to Ukrainian controlled territory.

Besides, Russian treat refugees very well - they’re provided with food and shelter. At the eve of the day, as I said, they are mostly ethnically Russian and yea, fleeing to Russia is a much better option that sitting in a bomb shelter without food or water

Sorry that we are killing your relatives and destroying your country - here is some food and shelter though.. see, we are very nice people.

 

[ViD]

I'm guessing the country will become rubble. If I were putin I'd pull back for now and keep dropping bombs.

That’s essentially the tactics now except for the DPR and LPR territory

 

[ViD]

Sorry that we are killing your relatives and destroying your country - here is some food and shelter though.. see, we are very nice people.

While you have a valid point, actions of Azov in Mariupol made those civilians pro Russian again, believe it or not

 

[mkess101]

Bollocks. You still have plenty of people in this very thread saying they won't achieve donbas.....

If he moved troops into donbas it would still be considered a invasion and that region would be still being shelled. Russia shelling Ukraine would still be considered a war crime.

Like it or not, people also have memories. Russia has a very recent history of aggression with sovereign nations. They amass a huge amount of troops and weaponry on the Georgian border to incite panic in the Georgians, and the second that one Georgian artillery shell comes across that border the Russians go in with the massive sledgehammer and demolish their government and set up their own. It's the equivalent of a massive guy who's a bully backing a smaller guy into a corner and faking like he's gonna punch him and the second the smaller guy puts a hand out to feebly try to push the bully away, the bully unloads on him and puts him in the hospital.

So yeah...there's simply going to be a longer leash given by most people to the country trying to fight off Russian aggression (or Russian proxies) than the other way around. You can say it's "not fair", but this is the bed that Putin made.

 

[Terry Noonan]

Russia hasn’t lost any troops. This is fake news from the western media elite. Long live Putin.

 

[ViD]

Dude, all I've got to say is that all bets are off when your country gets invaded. Rules kind of go out the window. That's why the world is going to overlook shit on the Ukrainian side, like it or not. Everyone has a primordial instinct to defend yourself, your family, your community, and your country. Ukraine is facing extinction as an independent democracy, and the Ukrainians think that's worth fighting for. God bless them.

I mean I don’t deny it, it’s their right to defend however they choose appropriate, but I personally can’t appreciate them using human shields.

 

[ViD]

Russia has behaved like a pussy in the fight for Mariupol so far. Bombed the shit out of it from a million miles away, killed and injured hundreds of civilians and when time came to actually capture the city they sent Kadyrov's forces and separatists to do the fighting downtown and said ukrainians should now lay down arms and surrender. No shit, they want someone else to die for THEIR battle in Mariupol. THEY should grow a pair and let THEIR professional soldiers (and not chechens and dpr's) enter the city and destroy ukrainians forces to the last man. Any talk of "but Azov is using civilians" is just excuses. Stop bitching and go fight house after house, liberate the hostages if you care so much.

You do realize Russian forces were never there? Mariupol is territory of the new Donetsk People republic so it’s mostly their national guard fighting there along with Chechens. I am assuming Russian only provide air support

 

[Queen B]

Peskov says many Ukrainians are collaborating with Russians which sounds like a big lie

 

[ViD]

Peskov says many Ukrainians are collaborating with Russians which sounds like a big lie

Considering how many people Zelensky already imprisoned and how many people are tied to light poles in Ukraine these days, he’s probably not wrong

 

[Captain Herb]

I'm saying their stated goals were donbas becoming independent and Crimea being Russian territory... they look likely to accomplish them to me

And again, if those were their only goals, no need for all the rest of this. Putin wanted much more than that. He thought he could take it, and he erred badly.

 

[b34stmode]

My worry here is that they keep repeating this, literally every day, on every news station, I even heard it today. This for me is a red flag that the west might be planning a false flag chemical attack to blame on Russia. Nobody is going to believe Russia if it happens and they say it wasn't them. I've already talked about how they don't need to use chemical weapons to win this war but many posters have alleged he will use them anyway. They have so many possible weapons they can use so why this constant reptitive narrative of chemical weapons?

Then people will say, but they told us about the build up of troops and that was true so this must be true as well! Why the coordinated scripting from news stations?

Why would the West need a false flag when a majority of people already support a no fly zone? Jesus some of you guys don't do any critical thinking at all.

 

[mkess101]

Considering how many people Zelensky already imprisoned and how many people are tied to light poles in Ukraine these days, he’s probably not wrong

Hopefully the "liberators" free them all soon. They can then become what's known as "Western Russia" and enjoy all the freedoms and prosperity that the average Russian does...