International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V10

[SandisLL]

I had to deal with rus origin business ppl and some % of them in reality were trustable and decent ppl....
However a lot of dreamers doesn't know what means term plancton...
& depending from context it does have 7 meanings....

1 st version : plancton is employee employed in office type job ....usually with degree....with duties and tasks where business owners are thinking that employee X might easily be replaced by next employee during next 6 weeks.
Welcome to reality ppl working in offices....

It is lesser insulting way how to use this word " plancton ". .
Other 6 options in business context are far more brutal and merciless....

 

[Day Drinking]

like putin said ukraine was a red line and westerners still provoked him with talks of nato expansion.

now its a new reality where new world war might happen and nukes might be used

joining nato won't help if it gets to that point

So...... if it doesn't matter a country joins NATO, then why does Putin want to stop countries from joining so badly?

 

[SandisLL]

I'm not mixing anything. I just want to know what the big picture is.

How are you defining the short term? A month after the invasion Russia held 27% of Ukrainian territory. That's now down to 18%. Maybe back up to 18.1% now they've taken a few more blocks of Bakhmut. How is that "winning?"

Long term. - How is a future of isolationism in the national interest of the Russian people? Nobody wants to join the russo-sphere aside from the most corrupt politicians because Russia doesn't exactly market itself well. At least during the soviet days they could sell the idea of political idealism. Now they're just another capitalist country with less checks and balances than most Western or Asian countries. Considering their demographics problems, I don't see how throwing away young mens lives, and having others flee the country is going to be of any long term benefit to Russia.

They in reality aren't large nation ....
They just always were capable to oppress smaller nations and do genocide unpunished...
Now they are dreaming that they will have a lot of power in BRICS and might be global power?
They already aren't with except in commodities resources delivery niche and threating with with old nukes....
We don't gave a fuck about their nuclear threats....or " stationing " in Belarus nukes....

USSR and later Russia always had nukes and bunkers stationed in Kaliningrad oblastj , St Pete oblastj and in St Pete<45>...since 1960 ies thanks to Nikita....
Putin ordered and bunkers in Kalingrad oblastj had been upgraded even before 2014 th ....
Nothing new....

Unless Putin will cede some 1-2 nukes to Lukashenko and hope that he will enter code and turn 5 keys and enter 2 nd code...and press switch and button...

 

[Billy no mates]

So...... if it doesn't matter a country joins NATO, then why does Putin want to stop countries from joining so badly?

Because it would take them out of the Russian orbit and he doesn't want to let that happen which is why the Ukrainian desire to join the EU precipitated Moscows intervention in Ukraine in 2014 .

 

[Videer]

actually party that finished 2nd is also eu/nato skeptic and favors neutrality

The opposition Finns Party parliamentary delegation said on Thursday that Parliament should move ahead on Finland's application to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato).

The parliamentary group's stance was announced by party chair Riikka Purra and group leader Ville Tavio during a meeting in Parliament on Thursday afternoon.

Tavio said the delegation has discussed Nato policy in several meetings.

"I have not heard any anti-Nato comments in the group meetings, but some have called for more time to consider the issue," Tavio said.

Of the Finns Party MPs, 29 voted in favour of Nato membership, while three voted against it, four abstained and two were absent.

The nationalist party has 38 seats in Parliament, the same number as the other main opposition party, the National Coalition (NCP), which has long been pro-Nato. Only Prime Minister Sanna Marin's Social Democratic Party has more seats at 40.

https://yle.fi/a/3-12385697

 

[Vergilius]

This guy's whole story. Pretty interesting.

A man of character and principle. The video is especially interesting during the last 20 minutes, he talks about how Putin has changed during the last few years as he seems to have become pathologically afraid for his life and health (without actually having anything wrong with him). This has caused him to reduce the circle of people he sees and isolate himself from the world, making him a completely different person from who he was in 2019 and before (Macron has said something similar about Putin changing, but this is inside confirmation).

He is not the first dictator in history (even in Russian history) to lose touch, isolate themselves and make increasingly terrible decisions during the latter part of their reign, but it sure is unpleasant to experience it happening in real time.

 

[Ramon.D]

@Rational Poster is the most informative writer in this thread.

Still reading from the few who still hold on to Russia is a mystery to me. Brainwashed or not, it should ring bells when you write on an international forum where the majority of us from different parts of the world condemn Russia. A natural reaction should awaken self-awareness in one.

In these tough economic times, my greatest wish had been that every civilized nation should be more self-sufficient. An incident or armed conflict should not paralyze the rest of the world and make life super difficult for the most marginalized in our society. A developed country must always be able to offer its citizens reasonable prices for clean water, heat and electricity.

What will happen after Putin? For a very long time to come, Russia wants to have the worst reputation that no one wants to have a relationship with. It is sad for all Russians who may have something to say but do not dare to open their mouths and remain in the country because they do not have the opportunity to escape Putin's long arm.

We live in a Global world and it is fantastic. But at the same time, we have men like Putin or a country like China who destroy the whole harmony for the rest of us who want to keep the global machinery going. Therefore, the most anti-American and anti-NATO person should ask himself whether the world would have looked better if the most militarily equipped and combat-experienced country had been Russia or China.

I am grateful that we have the United States holding the baton on the world stage.

I want to thank @Rational Poster for me finding this site.



Unfortunately, I don't remember who suggested Stephen Kotkin, but thanks anyway.

 

[jimbob27]

The sad thing is that the Russia they hold onto is now dead and buried by the Kremlin cabal.

It's always been place of great contrast. Capable of terrible atrocities but also producing some of the finest minds, artists and musicians the world has ever seen.

Even in recent times there were people honestly portraying Russia in a very positive light. I used to watch youtubers like Bald and Bankrupt, who would show the fantastic hospitality of Russian people, and NFKRZ who would translate all sorts of random bits of Russian pop culture for an English speaking audience. Now bald has been banned from the country, and NFKRZ is living in exile in Georgia, making videos about how terrible the situation is.

Ultimately the Kremlin is failing their own people. It's not like you can even rate Putin as a successful conqueror (thank god). Both Napoleon and Hitler smashed through the territory of Ukraine in a matter of months. I don't see any metric at all where these people could rate him as a good leader as he's done so much damage to the country.

 

[lsa]

not really they just getting themselves involved into russia v nato conflict and will have russian nukes pointed at them for no reason

In 2014 Russia simulated a (nuclear) attack on Stockholm.
Having "nukes pointed" at them is nothing new here..
Russia have been violating the Nordics air and sea space for years never given a fuck.

LOL at getting them self involved.. Russias bullying mentality have forced them too.

 

[jimbob27]

In 2014 Russia simulated a (nuclear) attack on Stockholm.
Having "nukes pointed" at them is nothing new here..
Russia have been violating the Nordics air and sea space for years never given a fuck.

LOL at getting them self involved.. Russias bullying mentality have forced them too.

"Pointing nukes" has really been a non-issue since the advent of nuclear submarines and submarine launched missiles. These delivery systems were the culmination of MAD, the thing that brought parity to the situation. Both sides have hidden nukes pointed at each other at all times, so putting weapons in territories close to borders really doesn't hold the same meaning as it used to.

 

[MeatheadMike]

so you're fixing something that isn't broken, great!

if they didn't talk about nato, there would be no conflict

So if the reason Russia invaded was because Ukraine was talking about joining NATO... then all that talk about denazifying Ukraine was complete horseshit, right?

 

[lsa]

"Pointing nukes" has really been a non-issue since the advent of nuclear submarines and submarine launched missiles. These delivery systems were the culmination of MAD, the thing that brought parity to the situation. Both sides have hidden nukes pointed at each other at all times, so putting weapons in territories close to borders really doesn't hold the same meaning as it used to.

Also they already have nukes close to the Finish boarder
and in Kaliningrad

 

[mkess101]

you forgot the part about democratically elected president being removed in a western backed coup in ukraine and nato having history of unprovoked attacks against other sovereign nations.

as for nations joining "at their own free wiil", thats bs.

nations (especially smaller ones) are coerced to join.

its a "club" you have to join to be part of "free western world" where you're told how to run your own country

 

[Limbo Pete]

like putin said ukraine was a red line and westerners still provoked him with talks of nato expansion.

now its a new reality where new world war might happen and nukes might be used

joining nato won't help if it gets to that point

The same NATO they already share a bunch of borders with, and Finland joined yesterday lol

 

[lsa]

The same NATO they already share a bunch of borders with, and Finland joined yesterday lol

Norway is one of the founding members of NATO and share a boarder with Russia.

 

[jimbob27]

The ironic thing is, the bits of Russia's western border with NATO countries are almost certainly the most secure. In the south they've got actual breakaway states and untold unresolved issues between various ethnic groups leftover from the breakup of the soviet union. To the east they've got the extreme nationalists China, who have historical claims to some of their territories.

 

[PEB]

Those Russians are kicking butt.

 

[Billy no mates]

So if the reason Russia invaded was because Ukraine was talking about joining NATO... then all that talk about denazifying Ukraine was complete horseshit, right?

Yes but the gaysatanistdruggiebioweapons are a legitimate threat .

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

Yes but the gaysatanistdruggiebioweapons are a legitimate threat .

at this point it's like they're shaking a magic 8-ball to keep coming up with horse shit excuses as to why it's Ukraine's fault or why the invasion is justified

 

[aries]

Also they already have nukes close to the Finish boarder
and in Kaliningrad

Yes, and that's actually one of the biggest strategic advantages that NATO have gained from Finland joining.

Pretty much all of Russia's western nuclear launch sites are situated near to the Finnish border, on the Kola peninsula (60%), the rest are in the far east, now they are much much more accessible to NATO IF they decided to neutralise them.

Finland was a buffer for NATO but more so for Russia's nuclear arsenal. Russia are so much more vulnerable and their nuclear threat has been dealt a serious blow. The world just got a lot safer.