Ronda Rousey "ADCC not Olympic Level"

[Bullheaded]

To put in perpesctive, Werdum and Toquinho reached 2nd place in ADCC 2011 this year, both are MMA fighters, and i think Werdum also does seminars.

There is no chance in hell, that in olympic judo you get to anything close to the top unless you are training judo only non-stop.

When there is no chance in hell that anybody (not even gi BJJ guys) get close to the top in ADCC, then ADCC can say its comparable to the olympics.

Just like you cant have someone doing MMA and professional boxing and be succesful at both, but you can have someone doing kickboxing and MMA.

Not to mention that Toquinho got a place in ADCC based on his MMA accomplishment. Of course he proved afterward that he was fit for the job, but what if he didn't? The whole process of inviting somebody over because they did well in another sport is just weird to me. If ADCC would truly be like the olympics, woud Ronda Rousey get an olympic spot in wrestling because she took the belt from Tate by taking her down. I mean, really?

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

To put in perpesctive, Werdum and Toquinho reached 2nd place in ADCC 2011 this year, both are MMA fighters, and i think Werdum also does seminars.

There is no chance in hell, that in olympic judo you get to anything close to the top unless you are training judo only non-stop.

When there is no chance in hell that anybody (not even gi BJJ guys) get close to the top in ADCC, then ADCC can say its comparable to the olympics.

Just like you cant have someone doing MMA and professional boxing and be succesful at both, but you can have someone doing kickboxing and MMA.

sometimes you make very intelligent and logical posts but I disagree here as this post is garbage and retarded

 

[unearth187]

I have a pretty unique perspective on this situation, since I've actually trained with Ishii (as well as other international level judokas) before in grappling, and I see Ronda train at my gym all the time.

1) You're all getting trolled by Ronda. If you follow her interviews closely you would know she has the mentality that creating controversy sells fights. If people love to see you win, or people love to see you lose, as long as they want to see you, then you make money.

2)She has a very extensive grappling background and if anything, trying to promote judo as being "tougher" is just a way for her to deflect attention away from that. Just because you don't win 10 medals at Naga or adcc or whatever, doesn't mean you aren't training and at a really high level. Take for example, John Donaher, you would never know his name if you only followed competition results, but he is apparently so skilled and experienced that guys like GSP seek him out for instruction.

3)NFL players haven't done so hot in MMA. Granted the NFL players who made the transition weren't exactly the cream of the crop, but its a retarded comparison. Analogously, World strongman competitors are not necessarily superior athletes compared to top motorcycle racers. It's two completely different sports, two completely different skillsets. Also, if you underestimate how hard professional FIGHTERS who FIGHT for a living train, in a sport where its the opponents JOB TO INJURE YOU, thinking other sports training is harder, you are seriously misguided. Let's be honest, MMA is a pretty brutal,extreme, and violent sport. Many of the best fighters have a little bit of a screw loose that manifests itself in undertaking extreme training measures, beyond the norm in other professional sports. They don't train to "play a game", they train for "going to war". Shit dude, Lyoto drinks his own piss every morning just as a way to start his day. Don't underestimate how hard MMA training is.

4) Talent pool. Actually NFL has a way smaller "talent pool" than MMA. You can't have a realistic goal of playing in the NFL unless you are American and at least 200lbs or so (for the most part). MMA is contested at the top levels in weight classes as low as 135 lbs now, and theres no denying its a true international sport.

5) Olympic/International level Judoka's are not generally on a higher level than top MMA fighters/ grapplers, especially not physically. Actually, the thought of it gives me the lulz. Again, having trained with both groups I can confidently state this. Not that there arent some exceptions, for example comparing Teddy Riner to Roy Nelson or something . But the idea that success in Olympic/International judo means that you are gonna walk through top mma fighters on athleticism alone, lol it really is hilarious. I don't want to get into too much detail, because I'm not out to badmouth anyone. FWIW, the elite judokas I've trained with have been sick athletes, very strong, some with really crazy endurance to go round after round HARD, etc. But then again, I could say the same thing about alot of the regulars at my gym, definitely all of the pros, and I'm pretty sure its the same way for professional fighters across all the different gyms.

"I have to go on record and say that the MMA fighters are the greatest athletes in the world, mentally and physically." -Shaquille O'Neal on INSIDE MMA.
Pretty sure he might have seen a few athletes in his days...

 

[Calibur]

Athlete does not mean anything. What you are all implying is that if Satoshi Ishii dedicated his life to ADCC he would automatically win a goal based on this false notion of athletic prowess.

At the end of the day ADCC champs are just as fit, just as skilled and just as dedicated as Judo Olympians but just at different sports.

If ADCC became an Olympic sport over night the same guys would be medaling in the Olympics, the medals themselves wont make Braulio or Galvao any more fitter or more skilled.

It is not the same. Is Braulio on a government funded team? Is he given a nutritionist? A strength and conditioning coach? Access to guys who understand PEDs and blood doping and have the knowledge to beat the tests? Are there any grappling tournaments that even have tests? How many high level grapplers spend their time coaching. How many Olympic judoka and wrestlers spend their Olympic year coaching.

The infrastructures of the sports are not the same. Government funding, IOC foolishness and national pride by itself shits on anything ADCC does.

The Olympics is the pinnacle of athletic scientific development. Workouts, nutrition, supplements, body chemistry, development mapping. Countries that are starving put all their money into this event.

You wanna say marcelo Garcia is getting the same kind of development while running MG in action?

Seriously?

The Olympics ain't even the be all end all but come on man. To try to put the ADCC up with them is silly. The fact that they both represent the APEX of a particular sport is irrelevant when the ceiling is so low.

ADCC has non athletes starting their training in their late 20's and beating former world champions!

That does not happen in a well developed sport. Christ, this argument is stupid.

 

[Calibur]

I have a pretty unique perspective on this situation, since I've actually trained with Ishii (as well as other international level judokas) before in grappling, and I see Ronda train at my gym all the time.

Interesting post.

 

[shouldercharge]

I have a pretty unique perspective on this situation, since I've actually trained with Ishii (as well as other international level judokas) before in grappling, and I see Ronda train at my gym all the time.

1) You're all getting trolled by Ronda. If you follow her interviews closely you would know she has the mentality that creating controversy sells fights. If people love to see you win, or people love to see you lose, as long as they want to see you, then you make money.

2)She has a very extensive grappling background and if anything, trying to promote judo as being "tougher" is just a way for her to deflect attention away from that. Just because you don't win 10 medals at Naga or adcc or whatever, doesn't mean you aren't training and at a really high level. Take for example, John Donaher, you would never know his name if you only followed competition results, but he is apparently so skilled and experienced that guys like GSP seek him out for instruction.

3)NFL players haven't done so hot in MMA. Granted the NFL players who made the transition weren't exactly the cream of the crop, but its a retarded comparison. Analogously, World strongman competitors are not necessarily superior athletes compared to top motorcycle racers. It's two completely different sports, two completely different skillsets. Also, if you underestimate how hard professional FIGHTERS who FIGHT for a living train, in a sport where its the opponents JOB TO INJURE YOU, thinking other sports training is harder, you are seriously misguided. Let's be honest, MMA is a pretty brutal,extreme, and violent sport. Many of the best fighters have a little bit of a screw loose that manifests itself in undertaking extreme training measures, beyond the norm in other professional sports. They don't train to "play a game", they train for "going to war". Shit dude, Lyoto drinks his own piss every morning just as a way to start his day. Don't underestimate how hard MMA training is.

4) Talent pool. Actually NFL has a way smaller "talent pool" than MMA. You can't have a realistic goal of playing in the NFL unless you are American and at least 200lbs or so (for the most part). MMA is contested at the top levels in weight classes as low as 135 lbs now, and theres no denying its a true international sport.

5) Olympic/International level Judoka's are not generally on a higher level than top MMA fighters/ grapplers, especially not physically. Actually, the thought of it gives me the lulz. Again, having trained with both groups I can confidently state this. Not that there arent some exceptions, for example comparing Teddy Riner to Roy Nelson or something . But the idea that success in Olympic/International judo means that you are gonna walk through top mma fighters on athleticism alone, lol it really is hilarious. I don't want to get into too much detail, because I'm not out to badmouth anyone. FWIW, the elite judokas I've trained with have been sick athletes, very strong, some with really crazy endurance to go round after round HARD, etc. But then again, I could say the same thing about alot of the regulars at my gym, definitely all of the pros, and I'm pretty sure its the same way for professional fighters across all the different gyms.

"I have to go on record and say that the MMA fighters are the greatest athletes in the world, mentally and physically." -Shaquille O'Neal on INSIDE MMA.
Pretty sure he might have seen a few athletes in his days...

all of your post is right except for the fact that we are talking womens mma and judo,not judo and mma in general.
Yes mma is an incredibly hard sport and i would agree that the top fighters are up there with the worlds elite athletes however womens mma is far far behind mens,and i think it would be fair to say that womens judo is a lot harder than womens mma at the current time,i'm sure in a few years womens mma would have developed but at the moment the talen pool is rather shallow.

 

[Knock Out Ned]

Is Braulio on a government funded team? Is he given a nutritionist? A strength and conditioning coach? Access to guys who understand PEDs and blood doping and have the knowledge to beat the tests?

Drago did.

 

[Blue Streak]

Athlete does not mean anything. What you are all implying is that if Satoshi Ishii dedicated his life to ADCC he would automatically win a goal based on this false notion of athletic prowess.

At the end of the day ADCC champs are just as fit, just as skilled and just as dedicated as Judo Olympians but just at different sports.

If ADCC became an Olympic sport over night the same guys would be medaling in the Olympics, the medals themselves wont make Braulio or Galvao any more fitter or more skilled.

Quality of athlete does mean something. Look at how guys like GSP and Jones wreck people. Look at all the collegiate, international and Olympic wrestlers that have had success in the UFC. Obviously, wrestling is a great base for MMA, but these guys (excluding GSP) are also successful because they have come through a highly competitive system that weeds out those who lack the talent, drive and athletic ability to make it to the top.

You think a guy like Forrest Griffin would have ever been champion if the quality of fighters in the UFC back then was as good as it was now (and it will likely only improve)?

I'm not trying to argue that Ishii would have won gold at ADCC if he had dedicated his life to that rather than Judo. Some people are naturally talented for particular sports, so maybe he would have sucked at no-gi grappling. We will never know.

What I am arguing is that Rhonda is right when she says that the ADCC is not on the level of the Olympics in terms of level of competition. As Calibur pointed out, the simple fact that ADCC is the pinnacle of no-gi submission grappling does not put it on the same level as the Olympics. Olympic sports have much deeper talent pools, more money, better scientific training, etc.

If, as you say, ADCC became an Olympic sport tomorrow, then yes the same people who won it this year would probably win it again next year (provided they could pass the PEDs screening tests). However, your example is flawed as all you have done is change the setting.

If no-gi submission grappling ever became an Olympic sport then, over time, you would see the talent pool increase drastically as more and more competitors are attracted by the marketing, prestige and government programs associated with Olympic sports. It is not about the medals, but about the number of people, the support and the science associated with the Olympics.

 

[Blue Streak]

4) Talent pool. Actually NFL has a way smaller "talent pool" than MMA. You can't have a realistic goal of playing in the NFL unless you are American and at least 200lbs or so (for the most part). MMA is contested at the top levels in weight classes as low as 135 lbs now, and theres no denying its a true international sport.

I have to disagree. While MMA is technically an international sport, in reality it is only popular in a few countries, and even then is a fairly niche sport in those countries. The majority of people in the world still only have a vague idea of what MMA is. As MMA fans, we shouldn't delude ourselves that our interest in the sport is held by most others.

On the other hand, even though I am not from the US, I know that the NFL appeals to a huge proportion of the American population. A huge number of children would grow up wanting to be NFL players one day. The financial benefits are also very lucrative in that there is the potential for college scholarships and making millions playing for an NFL team.

There still isn't that much money to be made in MMA, and people who get into it generally only do so because they either really love fighting, or it is the most lucrative athletic option available to them (i.e. collegiate wrestlers who can't make the Olympic team, kickboxers).

Hence, in reality, I think that the talent pool the NFL draws from is actually bigger than that which MMA does.

Also, it is no secret that the HW division in MMA is one of the shallowest, if not the most shallow. Although it is a different sport with different skill sets, I think it is difficult to disagree that there would be more HW size quality athletes in the NFL than in the UFC.

5) Olympic/International level Judoka's are not generally on a higher level than top MMA fighters/ grapplers, especially not physically. Actually, the thought of it gives me the lulz. Again, having trained with both groups I can confidently state this. Not that there arent some exceptions, for example comparing Teddy Riner to Roy Nelson or something . But the idea that success in Olympic/International judo means that you are gonna walk through top mma fighters on athleticism alone, lol it really is hilarious. I don't want to get into too much detail, because I'm not out to badmouth anyone. FWIW, the elite judokas I've trained with have been sick athletes, very strong, some with really crazy endurance to go round after round HARD, etc. But then again, I could say the same thing about alot of the regulars at my gym, definitely all of the pros, and I'm pretty sure its the same way for professional fighters across all the different gyms.

Which country are you talking about? I am going to presume the US. The US is really a nobody in the international Judo scene. They are not a high ranking country at all because they do not have a lot of high quality judoka. Whereas the US is probably the best country in the world for MMA training.

It is like people on here who have compared the US Olympic teams for Judo and Wrestling and say that the wrestlers wreck the judoka. Well, no shit. The US is a powerhouse in wrestling, but nothing in Judo. The comparison is ridiculous because of this. The Japanese and French Olympic Judo teams would have way better athletes than the US Olympic Judo team.

Also, I don't think anyone is trying to argue that an Olympic level judoka would beat an MMA fighter in an MMA match just on pure athleticism. That would be silly. However, Rhonda now trains MMA at a good gym and has proven that she can adjust to the sport and this, combined with her Olympic medal winning athleticism, means I would favour her against any other WMMA fighter (except Cyborg, who was on PEDs). No other current WMMA fighter has the physical gifts that Rhonda does. Which is why, given she can take a punch, I think she will be a dominant force in WMMA.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

guys, I think its quite fair to say that its harder for a judoka to get an olympic medal than for a grappler to get a medal in ADCC... that could be said about TKD, Wrestling, or another olympic sport...

Now that doesnt mean shit in terms of athletism, I mean, im pretty sure most D1 wrestlers do not lack athletism at all, not all of them go to the olympics... Athletism is not the only factor to make it, theres got to be talent (in soccer terms, I dont know how to describe it in "american" terms) mindset, smart training etc etc, its a combination... Ronday is not lying, but tate not being an olympic athlete doesnt mean squad, she is a proven mma fighter, and she is going to an MMA fight now, not a judo competition, with a very good athlete (with an extreme good looking ass lol)

 

[Calibur]

Ronda was referring to marloess coenans ADCC accomplishments, not Tate's MMA skills.

 

[Supereem]

Quality of athlete does mean something. Look at how guys like GSP and Jones wreck people. Look at all the collegiate, international and Olympic wrestlers that have had success in the UFC. Obviously, wrestling is a great base for MMA, but these guys (excluding GSP) are also successful because they have come through a highly competitive system that weeds out those who lack the talent, drive and athletic ability to make it to the top.

You think a guy like Forrest Griffin would have ever been champion if the quality of fighters in the UFC back then was as good as it was now (and it will likely only improve)?

I'm not trying to argue that Ishii would have won gold at ADCC if he had dedicated his life to that rather than Judo. Some people are naturally talented for particular sports, so maybe he would have sucked at no-gi grappling. We will never know.

What I am arguing is that Rhonda is right when she says that the ADCC is not on the level of the Olympics in terms of level of competition. As Calibur pointed out, the simple fact that ADCC is the pinnacle of no-gi submission grappling does not put it on the same level as the Olympics. Olympic sports have much deeper talent pools, more money, better scientific training, etc.

If, as you say, ADCC became an Olympic sport tomorrow, then yes the same people who won it this year would probably win it again next year (provided they could pass the PEDs screening tests). However, your example is flawed as all you have done is change the setting.

If no-gi submission grappling ever became an Olympic sport then, over time, you would see the talent pool increase drastically as more and more competitors are attracted by the marketing, prestige and government programs associated with Olympic sports. It is not about the medals, but about the number of people, the support and the science associated with the Olympics.

But what does athlete mean? It has become an imaginary concept. Most people think Randleman is the greatest athlete ever because of his explosiveness yet he cant strike for hit, gasses early and has a so-so chin. Does that make him a better athlete then say Diaz? No, they just have different strong points, mainly due to how they train.


Olympic level athlete means fuck all, Lindland is a silver medalist and got taken down by Murilo Bustamnate whilst he was STILL in his wrestling prime! In the clinch no less! Where the fuck was all his Olympic level dietitians and help? Where was his natural athleticism to help him overcome the skinny Bustamante? Nowhere, I would consider Bustamante the better athlete because he trained harder and smarter, genetics had little to do with that fight.

 

[Supereem]

It is not the same. Is Braulio on a government funded team? Is he given a nutritionist? A strength and conditioning coach? Access to guys who understand PEDs and blood doping and have the knowledge to beat the tests? Are there any grappling tournaments that even have tests? How many high level grapplers spend their time coaching. How many Olympic judoka and wrestlers spend their Olympic year coaching.

The infrastructures of the sports are not the same. Government funding, IOC foolishness and national pride by itself shits on anything ADCC does.

The Olympics is the pinnacle of athletic scientific development. Workouts, nutrition, supplements, body chemistry, development mapping. Countries that are starving put all their money into this event.

You wanna say marcelo Garcia is getting the same kind of development while running MG in action?

Seriously?

The Olympics ain't even the be all end all but come on man. To try to put the ADCC up with them is silly. The fact that they both represent the APEX of a particular sport is irrelevant when the ceiling is so low.

ADCC has non athletes starting their training in their late 20's and beating former world champions!

That does not happen in a well developed sport. Christ, this argument is stupid.

You are glorying the Olympics way too much. I am friends with Olympic level athletes (rowing) and they cross train in Jiujitsu and train about the same as the pro Jiujitsu guys at my gym. It is not hard to gain access to all those resources you mentioned, it is not like a normal dietitian is going to years behind one that works on an Olympic team, in fact I doubt my friend even has a dietitian (even though he is on a serious diet, which I helped him modify based solely on countless hours reading about it on the internets).

And im not from some joke country either, Australia is renowned for its athletes.

The best 'athlete' I have ever met competes in Jiujitsu and Jiujitsu alone. Shits on every other pro athlete I have met in every physical category.

 

[Supereem]

I have a pretty unique perspective on this situation, since I've actually trained with Ishii (as well as other international level judokas) before in grappling, and I see Ronda train at my gym all the time.

1) You're all getting trolled by Ronda. If you follow her interviews closely you would know she has the mentality that creating controversy sells fights. If people love to see you win, or people love to see you lose, as long as they want to see you, then you make money.

2)She has a very extensive grappling background and if anything, trying to promote judo as being "tougher" is just a way for her to deflect attention away from that. Just because you don't win 10 medals at Naga or adcc or whatever, doesn't mean you aren't training and at a really high level. Take for example, John Donaher, you would never know his name if you only followed competition results, but he is apparently so skilled and experienced that guys like GSP seek him out for instruction.

3)NFL players haven't done so hot in MMA. Granted the NFL players who made the transition weren't exactly the cream of the crop, but its a retarded comparison. Analogously, World strongman competitors are not necessarily superior athletes compared to top motorcycle racers. It's two completely different sports, two completely different skillsets. Also, if you underestimate how hard professional FIGHTERS who FIGHT for a living train, in a sport where its the opponents JOB TO INJURE YOU, thinking other sports training is harder, you are seriously misguided. Let's be honest, MMA is a pretty brutal,extreme, and violent sport. Many of the best fighters have a little bit of a screw loose that manifests itself in undertaking extreme training measures, beyond the norm in other professional sports. They don't train to "play a game", they train for "going to war". Shit dude, Lyoto drinks his own piss every morning just as a way to start his day. Don't underestimate how hard MMA training is.

4) Talent pool. Actually NFL has a way smaller "talent pool" than MMA. You can't have a realistic goal of playing in the NFL unless you are American and at least 200lbs or so (for the most part). MMA is contested at the top levels in weight classes as low as 135 lbs now, and theres no denying its a true international sport.

5) Olympic/International level Judoka's are not generally on a higher level than top MMA fighters/ grapplers, especially not physically. Actually, the thought of it gives me the lulz. Again, having trained with both groups I can confidently state this. Not that there arent some exceptions, for example comparing Teddy Riner to Roy Nelson or something . But the idea that success in Olympic/International judo means that you are gonna walk through top mma fighters on athleticism alone, lol it really is hilarious. I don't want to get into too much detail, because I'm not out to badmouth anyone. FWIW, the elite judokas I've trained with have been sick athletes, very strong, some with really crazy endurance to go round after round HARD, etc. But then again, I could say the same thing about alot of the regulars at my gym, definitely all of the pros, and I'm pretty sure its the same way for professional fighters across all the different gyms.

"I have to go on record and say that the MMA fighters are the greatest athletes in the world, mentally and physically." -Shaquille O'Neal on INSIDE MMA.
Pretty sure he might have seen a few athletes in his days...

Pretty pefect response.


I think dedication is the main thing that separates the Olympic level athletes from the others. There is nothing to say guys like Braulio are not dedicated or as dedicated as Olympic level athletes. Guys like him live Jiujitsu.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Ronda was referring to marloess coenans ADCC accomplishments, not Tate's MMA skills.

yeah, but it was on the subject of misha subing Marloes...

 

[Yozigi]

It seems that an awful lot of posters discussing this topic are butthurt just because they like to be, aren't knowledgeable enough to discuss the topic in a constructive manner or are butthurt as a direct consequence of their lack of reading comprehension skills.

Being an athlete consists of many things but it can very roughly be divided into mental, technical and physical parts. It should go without saying that it's highly sport-specific in which manner these attributes should be trained. What makes this discussion interesting (or would make if so many people wouldn't just be posting brainfarts all over the thread) is that each judo, wrestling, submission grappling and MMA have considerable overlapping in all aspects.

I've trained with high-level wrestlers, professional MMA fighters and some pretty good BJJ'ers. Since the 2016 Olympics are a goal of mine I've merely dabbled in them occasionally but enjoy them nonetheless. When it comes to physical attributes such as strength, endurance and speed my experience is that the "average" actively competing judokas and wrestlers are heaps above their counterparts in either MMA or BJJ.

The top men and women in judo and wrestling most definately are at least on the same level as top MMA fighters. We're talking about a group in the absolute, extreme end of people who are pushing human body to it's limits daily no matter which one their sport is - some with the help of chemistry some without. It's insulting to try to point differences when talking about these people (excluding current WMMA) So it's obvious that the top athletes in MMA and the absolute top in grappling are high-level athletes physically. However as a rule in judo and wrestling not only the top guys and gals are physically high-level but also the ones competing in competitions a few steps below the top. And with the talent pools being considerably larger the top judokas/wrestlers have a much harder road to the top in the form of quantity and quality of competitors than top MMA fighters and grapplers - which has to as much to do on the physical and also on the mental side of things. The thought of comparing Teddy Riner to Roy Nelson, considering it as an exception and drawing conclusions from there gives me lulz.

Top-level MMA guys train hard without a doubt but saying it's any harder than in other big combat sports is ridiculous and underlines any persons ignorance on the topic who stands behind that statement. I've trained with all kinds of pro fighters and follow actively what happens in the MMA world and the training (apart from getting punched in the head in which regard only other striking sports can match MMA) is just what you'd expect of people wanting to be a full-time athlete. Ridiculously, extremely and brutally hard but nothing more.

It should also be noted that apart from few exceptions the level of judo in the US is very low and Australia is practically a third world country when it comes to competetive judo (sorry judogido!).

Supereem, you're saying that a BJJ'er you know has superior physical attributes to any other athlete you know. Good for him if he's in an excellent shape but the key note's highlighted and the whole statement is a bit weird. You also misunderstand the word "athlete" to have only to do with the physical side of things when it's a lot more. It's extremely arrogant (or stupid) to state that being an Olympic level athlete means fuck all. Olympic sports have numbers behind them. When athletes have gone through a much harder process in getting to the top than some other athletes else in other sports it means that they've had to push themselves harder mentally and/or physically whether they get there or not. Olympic athletes have proven their dedication time and time again in a way the handpicked competitors in ADCC just haven't had to.

But of course there's the sport specific skill part which is obviously a hell of a big factor in deciding the outcome of a bout under the rules of any of the sports mentioned. Even a high-level sprinter (despite all his/her physical prowess) couldn't for example possibly compete succesfully against an average lighter weight wrestler in wrestling because he or she lacks the sport specific skill which is so crucial it can overcome even great gaps on the physical and mental side. This is where credit has been given where it's due in all posts in the thread - no one is claiming that judo has as complex of a ground game and in general as good ground fighters as submission grappling. For some reason the submission grappling/BJJ community however mistakes a good ground game for an instant recipe for success in MMA when today it's not anymore. Hence, there's some twisted (false) sense of superiority ingrained into especially many American posters here who do BJJ. It's obvious that MMA has a lot of overlapping with both judo and BJJ but it's still a different sport especially on the technical side and anyone claiming otherwise is plain stupid. We've all seen it and we all know it - a great judoka/boxer/kickboxer/wrestler/BJJ'er/whatever with far superior physical and mental attributes to his/her opponent can look like complete shit in the ring/cage just because they do not have enough sport-specific skill to perform well. Being an Olympian in MMA obviously matters but the only conclusion to be drawn from Bustamante taking Lindland down in MMA is that Bustamante is/was a better MMA-fighter in at least one aspect of the sport.

When it comes to WMMA Ronda can say whatever she wants because the overall physical and mental level of fighters is very low.

sometimes you make very intelligent and logical posts but I disagree here as this post is garbage and retarded

It's actually a very well thought out and articulate one.

If her name was Chael Sonnen or BJ Penn we'd all love her, but the fact that she has a pair of boobs makes her unattractive and unappealing when she talks smack. More power to her, I hope she keeps on doing well. Someday when she gets over her young age, lack of education, and becomes an articulate person nothing will stop her. She's well aware of her grappling deficiencies - her boyfriend is a rickson black belt and there are videos of nick diaz and moussassi tooling her without even trying, but that Olympic level trash talk, and that Olympic level superhuman dedication are her keys to success.

Amen.

 

[TX Fighter]

not a fan of womens sports. But I do know that I would take Roger Gracie over any olympic judoka in a grappling match.

There are some badass judoka for sure. but I would take ADCC champs over olympic judokas in a grappling match. Judo is great, but IMO BJJ>Judo.

On the other hand, Rousey is a very good grappler as seen in her match with Coenen.

In general though, olympic athletes >>> BJJ athletes. Which shows in the ring.

 

[SUPERGRAPPLER]

The best 'athlete' I have ever met competes in Jiujitsu and Jiujitsu alone. Shits on every other pro athlete I have met in every physical category.

I love Jiujitsu but I would have to say rugby players, judokas, and soccer (football) players are pretty damned conditioned.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

not a fan of womens sports. But I do know that I would take Roger Gracie over any olympic judoka in a grappling match.

There are some badass judoka for sure. but I would take ADCC champs over olympic judokas in a grappling match. Judo is great, but IMO BJJ>Judo.

On the other hand, Rousey is a very good grappler as seen in her match with Coenen.

In general though, olympic athletes >>> BJJ athletes. Which shows in the ring.

I dont think this is even for debate, (at least for the mayority of the thinking population)...

As right now, like I said, I think is way tougher to medal in judo than winning the adcc... but, if bjj keeps winning field, and starts getting more money involve, as it gets pro, things will change, hell right now its changing, I dont think in the future, there will be another person as unathletic as Roger making it big, athletes will take over the sport, its happening now, technique wont be nearly enough, bjj is a physical sport, and physical sports (besides soccer) are dominated by the best athletes (of course, the technique level has to be on pair)

 

[Ryo]

not a fan of womens sports. But I do know that I would take Roger Gracie over any olympic judoka in a grappling match.

Lol what does this have to do with anything? Roger Gracie is a man, and a heavyweight. I would take him over any BJJ guy or Judo guy in the world on the ground in a sub match.