Rogan Can Be So Crazy (MM v JJ)

[KillerIsBack V2]

It was obviously this JJ.

first read what's on seats behind them as "milf"

 

[Paladin]

Jon Jones - Undefeated, never been beaten. Faced the best LHW's for years.

Mighty Mouse - got thrown around like a dolly against Cruz and totally dominated, Got totally dominated by Brad Pickett. Had a draw against Mccall that everyone has Mccall winning and fightmetric proves Mccall clearly won. Fights in a really shallow division with prelim fighters that are not ready, getting title shots.

He got thrown around by a man so much bigger and stronger than him, in a division where he was undersized.

This reminds me of when Silva ruled MW with an iron fist to the point where the division looked weak. As soon as Weidman was champ, the division came alive due to new potential matchups

I think the more dominant the champ.. The weaker the division looks.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Think what everyone seems to ignore is that starting with Shogun and going up to Jone's last fight w/ DC his opponents are a combined 26W/28L and 4 of those opponents are 185ers. Meanwhile MM's last 3 or 4 opponents are something like a combined 36-0 if you ignore their fights w/ MM. There's no doubt Jones is great, problem is more that the LHW division isn't what it used to be (less juicing, end of an era, etc.)

I wish people would stop spinning the numbers. If a guy fights at a weight, then that's his weight class. I'm so tired of hearing "Such and such fought MW's/LW's/whatever"
Machida spent the majority of his career at LHW--he was a champion there. Vitor has fought at HW and LHW. Chael had no business being in there with Jones, but he's fought at LHW as well. Using weight classes to discredit a fighter's wins is bush league. Rumble fought at WW, for gods sake...and he is now a beast at LHW. (and beat Arlovski at HW) It would be absurd to say that "Arlovski got knocked out by a WW". Body types and weight cuts make it so that you really can't judge fighters based solely on their weight classes.
All that being said, DJ is definitely impressive, but he doesn't face the same level of competition that Jones has faced and dominated.

 

[Razorwit]

I wish people would stop spinning the numbers. If a guy fights at a weight, then that's his weight class. I'm so tired of hearing "Such and such fought MW's/LW's/whatever"
Machida spent the majority of his career at LHW--he was a champion there. Vitor has fought at HW and LHW. Chael had no business being in there with Jones, but he's fought at LHW as well. Using weight classes to discredit a fighter's wins is bush league. Rumble fought at WW, for gods sake...and he is now a beast at LHW. (and beat Arlovski at HW) It would be absurd to say that "Arlovski got knocked out by a WW". Body types and weight cuts make it so that you really can't judge fighters based solely on their weight classes.
All that being said, DJ is definitely impressive, but he doesn't face the same level of competition that Jones has faced and dominated.

For sure that's a fair argument, but that isn't spinning the numbers. The numbers are 26W and 28L.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

For sure that's a fair argument, but that isn't spinning the numbers. The numbers are 26W and 28L.

I think looking at the numbers as plainly as that doesn't tell the full story. Is MM's division as competitive, deep, and been alive as long as JJ's division? I don't think you can extrapolate much information from wins/loss ratios in MMA. One of the more intriguing things about the sport is that there are so many ways to win and lose that even the greats of the sport get defeated. Mark Hunt has a pretty crap record on paoer, RDA has like 8 losses...and yet they're 2 of the best fighters in the sport. You want to add a guy like Vitor to JJ's win/loss ratio when the guy has been fighting for 20 years. (He alone has 11 of the losses you're listing) he's not a can. He's STILL competitive, and was one of the few opponents of Jon that got him into some trouble. You can get numbers to tell any story you want

 

[WallyBear]

Despite Jones beating 5 ex Champions in a row.

Johnson appeared on Rogan's show.

That's the crucial factor in his thinking, I believe.

I'm a Jones fan myself, but I don't get the "he beat XY ex champions" argument. DJ didn't even have the chance because he is the first and only FlyW champion. Others didn't have the chance to win vs a lot of former champions because there weren't as much ex-champions in their division.

Let's just look at it from a quality of opponents standpoint (which Jon still wins, but it makes more sense than he beat XY former champions).

 

[skysolo]

I'm a Jones fan myself, but I don't get the "he beat XY ex champions" argument. DJ didn't even have the chance because he is the first and only FlyW champion. Others didn't have the chance to win vs a lot of former champions because there weren't as much ex-champions in their division.

Let's just look at it from a quality of opponents standpoint (which Jon still wins, but it makes more sense than he beat XY former champions).

Are you looking for fairness in a question with no answer?

 

[qw3rty]

fighting a replacement fighter with unorthodox striking

Stop reading after that
I think Jones is the best p4p tho

 

[qw3rty]

I'm a Jones fan myself, but I don't get the "he beat XY ex champions" argument. DJ didn't even have the chance because he is the first and only FlyW champion. Others didn't have the chance to win vs a lot of former champions because there weren't as much ex-champions in their division.

Let's just look at it from a quality of opponents standpoint (which Jon still wins, but it makes more sense than he beat XY former champions).

I agree with that, imagine if Silva or GSP hadn'tt been UFC fighters, we could have a lot of former champions in those division. LHW always was inestable until Jones came up

 

[SirKratos]

Jedrzejczyk via size advantage

 

[WallyBear]

Are you looking for fairness in a question with no answer?

Hehe, well, you're right, there is no definitive answer. But when we discuss it, atleast I try to make fair statements.

 

[Razorwit]

I think looking at the numbers as plainly as that doesn't tell the full story. Is MM's division as competitive, deep, and been alive as long as JJ's division? I don't think you can extrapolate much information from wins/loss ratios in MMA. One of the more intriguing things about the sport is that there are so many ways to win and lose that even the greats of the sport get defeated. Mark Hunt has a pretty crap record on paoer, RDA has like 8 losses...and yet they're 2 of the best fighters in the sport. You want to add a guy like Vitor to JJ's win/loss ratio when the guy has been fighting for 20 years. (He alone has 11 of the losses you're listing) he's not a can. He's STILL competitive, and was one of the few opponents of Jon that got him into some trouble. You can get numbers to tell any story you want

For sure you can use numbers in any way, but Vitor has only 2 of the losses from that stat. The loss to Jones and his loss to Weidman. The 26/28 is for the fighters records from fighting Jones onwards not their totals. I would also argue that LHW isn't that competitive of a division anymore, if you consider the fact that someone who has been fighting for 20 years could actually give one of the P4P champs trouble. 20 years in the fight game is a lot of wear on the body. The only one close to Jone's age is Gustafsson whereas the rest are all on the backend of their career. Even Shogun is 6 years older and has peaked a long time ago.

 

[juncito]

I was thinking this was a MM vs Jędrzejczyk thread.

I thought the same, that's how crazy we think Joe Rogan is.